20amp circuit??

[crashkelly]

Hey all,

Just had a question about possibily running a 20amp circuit for my home theatre renos.

I have read much about using a dedicated 20amp circuit for use with components such as AVR, DVD player, ....... but I am wondering about its use with a projector. Actually I am just wondering about its use in general

Basically what I am looking at is running a dedicated circuit to one outlet, with all components being plugged into a Monster Home Theatre Power Center (MP HTS1000MKIII) (it was on sale ), then running a wire from that outlet to another outlet in the ceiling for a future projector. I am wondering how "good" it is to connect components generally plugged into a 15amp circuit into a 20amp or is the only difference the ability to draw more power from the circuit.

You will have to excuse my noobness on this. I am doing all the work myself and am familiar with pulling wire (now, now no jokes about pulling my own wire ) but am not so up on "electricity"

Thanks for passing on the knowledge
Michael

 

[Johnd]

The only benefit of a 20a over 15a circuit is more available power, and about the only components in a home theater that benefits from more power are large amps and the largest receivers. It is certainly not necessary for a projector (they simply do not draw that much amperage).

Conversely, conditioners are nice for minimizing interference, and regulators for tempering voltage. These items are only necessary if these problems are preexisting in your power supply. Finally, spending $100 or $200 is cheap insurance for your equipment in cases of spikes or surges (if the conditioner so warrants). Hope that helps.

 

[crashkelly]

Johnd,

Thanks for the info and it does help. I knew it was not necessary for the projector but I want to keep all audio/video related components on one dedicated circuit while supply more than enough to the main rack.

While I do not know if there are prexisting problems with my house power, I saw the monster power centre for cheap so I bought it as it cannot hurt and it looks cool.

I probably don't really need a 20amp circuit, but the walls are open so why not. At least then I will now I have more power if I do need it.

Cheers and thanks again
Michael

 

[Johnd]

Johnd,

Thanks for the info and it does help. I knew it was not necessary for the projector but I want to keep all audio/video related components on one dedicated circuit while supply more than enough to the main rack.

While I do not know if there are prexisting problems with my house power, I saw the monster power centre for cheap so I bought it as it cannot hurt and it looks cool.

I probably don't really need a 20amp circuit, but the walls are open so why not. At least then I will now I have more power if I do need it.

Cheers and thanks again
Michael

You're welcome.

Jfyi: your hts1000 will blow at less than 11a, so it serves no purpose to plug it into anything greater than a 15a circuit. But keep it dedicated nontheless (so as to minimize interference), with a dedicated ground is good practice.

 

[crashkelly]

Jfyi: your hts1000 will blow at less than 11a, so it serves no purpose to plug it into anything greater than a 15a circuit. But keep it dedicated nontheless (so as to minimize interference), with a dedicated ground is good practice.

Could you explain what you mean by a dedicated ground? Is this something more than a properly grounded outlet, with the ground wire grounded at the fuse panel (The main ground for the fuse panel is currently the copper pipe water system), that will accept the three pronged plug of the hts1000?



Thanks
Michael

 

[majorloser]

With a 20 amp circuit you will use #12 wire and 20 amp components (outlets, switches and breakers). All outlets on the circuit must be 20 amp rated. It's very easy to tell the difference between a 15A and 20A outlet.

Note the "T" shaped socket on a 20A outlet:

(Image demo only. Don't waste money on "audio grade".)

You Monster power center will only have a 15A plug. It will be fine to extend the new 20A line over to the position of the projector. I do beg to differ with a projector not needing much power. They can use anywhere from 400W to 1,000W (4A to 9A) continuous with their high output lamps. When you add up all of your components on the circuit it can be quite significant. Amplifiers are another story. They can require enough power to warrant their own circuit.

 

[Johnd]

With a 20 amp circuit you will use #12 wire and 20 amp components (outlets, switches and breakers). All outlets on the circuit must be 20 amp rated. It's very easy to tell the difference between a 15A and 20A outlet.

NEC code does permit 15a outlets to be used on 20a circuits major.

I do beg to differ with a projector not needing much power. They can use anywhere from 400W to 1,000W (4A to 9A) continuous with their high output lamps.

Yes. I was simply suggesting that projectors generally do not require a dedicated circuit...whereas large amps and the largest receivers do. Perhaps I was unclear. Thanks.

 

[majorloser]

You're welcome.

Jfyi: your hts1000 will blow at less than 11a, so it serves no purpose to plug it into anything greater than a 15a circuit. But keep it dedicated nontheless (so as to minimize interference), with a dedicated ground is good practice.

ALL GROUNDS SHOULD BE BONDED!!!!!!

Your house must have one common ground. I'm sure one of our licensed electricians or EE's will chime in on this.

As far as a dedicated circuit, it means that no other loads (outlets, lights, etc.) are on that circuit breaker. In my theater I have four (4) dedicated 20A circuits for the components and two (2) 20A lighting circuits.

 

[crashkelly]

thanks for the info majorloser.

You say the the monster power center only has a 15amp plug, which it does. Now if I understand you correctly that means that in the event that it is needed, the power centre will not be able to supply more than the 15amps it designed for as it is intended to be on a 15amp circuit. So I would then venture a guess that there are power centres designed to be on 20amp circuits. (this is not intended to open up the discussion/debate on power devices )

That being said, putting a 20amp circuit in is more for the future as I can easily do it now but it would be hard to do later.

With projectors requiring a decent amount of power, would it make sense to add a 15amp circuit dedicated to that? I have the space in the panel and it is actually less of a run to dedicate it solely for that than it is to run it from the same circuit as the dedicate 20amp for the other components.

Thanks for the tip about audiograde outlets as I just might have bought them

Cheers
Michael

 

[Johnd]

Could you explain what you mean by a dedicated ground?

A "home run" ground wire running directly from ground bar to outlet (no additional circuits or other tie-ins).

 

[majorloser]

NEC code does permit 15a outlets to be used on 20a circuits major.

Yes, you can use 15A outlets on a 20A circuit. But why wouldn't you want to use 20A outlets? Yeah, the 15A outlets are cheaper which is why some electricians will save a few bucks when running a house.

 

[majorloser]

Thanks for the tip about audiograde outlets as I just might have bought them

You'll also see "hospital grade" out there. Don't waste your money on them either.

 

[Johnd]

ALL GROUNDS SHOULD BE BONDED!!!!!!

Yes, but I believe that is outside the realm of this discussion. The bonding occurs when a licensed electrician installs the panel...not when adding a circuit. A "single-bond" is something of a misnomer, local codes vary, but generally the primary bond goes to the water main prior
to any shutoff, with an additional backup (secondary) to a double 8' ground rod. This is all academic, because it is beyond the scope of this discussion, and well outside the realm of most diyers. Cheers.

 

[Johnd]

Yes, you can use 15A outlets on a 20A circuit. But why wouldn't you want to use 20A outlets? Yeah, the 15A outlets are cheaper which is why some electricians will save a few bucks when running a house.

A non-issue for just one outlet, but when running a hundred, the extra $4.00 per becomes wasted money. There is absolutely no safety concern with running a 20a circuit (really limited to only about 15.5 a with a properly working breaker) to a 15a outlet. And there is really no benefit...certainly no audible one. So why blow the money? Cheers.

 

[Johnd]

As a follow up, I generally do run 20a circuits over 15a circuits. The breaker cost is the same. You can use the box and outlet. The only upcharge is for the wire (about $0.04 per ft for Romex, and about $0.10 per ft for thhn). Peanuts. It is a little more difficult to pull, but sometimes that extra 5a proves invaluable.

 

[crashkelly]

majorloser and Johnd

Thanks for the excellent info.

Here is what I think I will do:
Run one dedicated 20amp circuit with two 20amp outlets. Outlet one will have the monster power centre with my cable box, dvd player, xbox360, AVR, CD changer, and PS2 plugged into it. Outlet two will have my TV and subwoofer plugged into it. I still have to figure out surge/spike suppression for this outlet.

edit:
Or I guess I could run two 20amp circuits, one for each outlet listed above as the only extra cost would be the 2nd 20amp breaker. Hmmmmm.........
end edit

I am also going to run a dedicated 15amp circuit for my projector as it will then have its own power source (overkill I know) with the main reason being that it is a much shorter run to go from fusebox to projector than from the 20amp circuit to the projector. I am going to leave a service loop in this circuit as it will run right where I will eventually put a motorized screen. (I know a bit about the wavy issues with pull-down/motorized screens but as this is the main TV room as well as HT I will need to keep my TV in place for regular TV viewing and the kids so as not to waste the hours on the projector bulb)

To clarify for my own sense of well-being, there is no issue plugging the designed for 15amp monster power centre into to the 20amp circuit other than it will not be able to take advantage of all the available power if it is needed. Correct??

Thanks again for all the info and for your time
Michael

 

[Johnd]

Or I guess I could run two 20amp circuits, one for each outlet listed above as the only extra cost would be the 2nd 20amp breaker. Hmmmmm.........

Yes. Plus the cost of the 2nd receptable, box and wiring. Right?

To clarify for my own sense of well-being, there is no issue plugging the designed for 15amp monster power centre into to the 20amp circuit other than it will not be able to take advantage of all the available power if it is needed. Correct??

Correct. I do not know of a conditioner that must have a 15a circuit. You should be just fine. Throw pennies now (for 20a circuits): the available power down the road is a good, inexpensive investment.

 

[Rickster71]

Hi Crash, you mentioned a concern as to finding surge / spike protection for a single duplex receptacle.
I've used products from Pass & Seymour, and Hubble.
The TVSS duplex receptacles are available in 15 or 20 Amp.
I couldn't get a link to work, so you'll have to go to their site and do a search for 'TVSS receptacle'.
Good luck with your project, hope this helps.
Rick

 

[crashkelly]

Johnd

Yes. Plus the cost of the 2nd receptable, box and wiring. Right?

The 2nd receptacle, box, and wiring would aleady be there, except maybe for a couple feet of wire, as I had already planned on the second outlet for my TV and subwoofer. The only difference was in my first thought that 2nd receptacle was going to be part of the first 20amp circuit, now I am thinking why not put it on its own. Few extra pennies for wire and more power down the road. I like more power

Thanks for the clarification on the 15amp conditioner on a 20amp circuit

Rickster71,

Thanks for the info, I will take a look

Cheers and thanks again
Michael

 

[Johnd]

Johnd



The 2nd receptacle, box, and wiring would aleady be there, except maybe for a couple feet of wire, as I had already planned on the second outlet for my TV and subwoofer. The only difference was in my first thought that 2nd receptacle was going to be part of the first 20amp circuit, now I am thinking why not put it on its own. Few extra pennies for wire and more power down the road. I like more power

Thanks for the clarification on the 15amp conditioner on a 20amp circuit

Rickster71,

Thanks for the info, I will take a look

Cheers and thanks again
Michael

Not to beat a dead horse crashkelly, but:

My response was to "two 20a circuits." They only way "a couple feet of wire" would suffice in that instance is if that 2nd circuit (outlet) is just "a couple feet" from the service panel.

But it sounds like you now have things under control and know what you're doing. Cheers.