2010 Great Northwest GTG

majorloser

majorloser

Moderator
I won't be able to make it this year. Send a PM and see if you can steal my place. :)


Granted, if you win this year, you have to send me the prize.
 
Tomorrow

Tomorrow

Audioholic Ninja
I won't be able to make it this year. Send a PM and see if you can steal my place. :)


Granted, if you win this year, you have to send me the prize.
Dave...what was it you called Mazer? :D

Skeeter, I can put you on the waiting list. Right now, all seats are booked (including Dave's) for the speaker auditioning sessions. You never know...someone might cancel. In any event, if you like, you are welcome to come over for a little mingling after the event...probably around 4:00. PM me if you're interested in either.
 
Tomorrow

Tomorrow

Audioholic Ninja
THE FORMAT


Having eight pairs of loudspeakers to be thoroughly auditioned and reviewed in one day by 9 people is no simple matter...especially if the results are to be meaningful. While we have run blinded A/B testing of speakers in the past, it usually involved a 'shootout' format. This year will be a little different.

Typical shootouts involve some sort of protocols which include conjured scoring, ranking, or rating system with scoring done by a few individuals. Scores are usually given to various aspects of loudspeaker performance, e.g. bass extension, soundstage expansion, midrange clarity, etc. While perhaps interesting in its own right, this kind of reporting can be very problematic because of listener biases where the results are, unless done by strict scientific methodology, statistically insignificant and possibly quite misleading. Example: 6 people evaluate speakers A, B, C, and D for "treble clarity" on a scale of 1-5. The scores are 3.1, 3.2, 3.4, and 3.2. Does that really tell us anything of value? No. But you can bet some people will be thinking speaker C is 'superior'...though this has no basis in fact nor offers a repeatable, provable status. There are so many elements to scientically accurate speaker evaluation, that the myriad of variables are usually beyond measurable control.

So we'll be taking a slightly different approach in the 2010 GNW GTG. We will not be picking 'winners' or 'losers'. The reviewers will be offering up their impressions of these loudspeakers in descriptive ways, as you would in your own audition at a dealer, for example. Of course we will try to hone in on discreet aspects of the speakers' performance. But our focus will be on comparing these 8 sample pairs for how they differ...not which ones we prefer. In the process of setting up the format, we decided to add a session that may even pinpoint some reviewers' biases. But lest I give too much away, here is the basic setup of our busy schedule for the GTG on September 18:

Pre-Audition:

Thanks to the good will and equipment of Dennis Murphy, we will be measuring all speaker pairs in room, both open into the room and concealed by a large speaker cloth screen. These measurements will likely be published, or at the least summarized, in the results thread.

Session 1:

Using Chesky Records' Guide to Critical Listening, the reviewers will descibe their impressions of all 8 speaker pairs, presented blind in A, B, C, D, E, F, G, H order. Reviewers will report on perceived speaker transparency, visceral impact, dynamics, etc. on a standardized report form.

Session 2:
Using cuts from rock, pop, and classical selections, in random order (e.g. Dw/C, w/A, w/F, etc.), all speaker pairs will be A/B compared to all other pairs. This will also be a blinded auditioning period.

Session 3:

The screen will be removed, and all speakers will again be reviewed, in yet another random order, and reported on while hearing reviewer provided audition CD's. Prices will also be announced on all speakers. Reporting will focus again on transparency, visceral impact, dynamics, etc. We will also ask the reviewers for a 'value' description for each pair at this time.

The resulting information (some quite specific) and any data compiled should prove interesting. At the very least, the summarized reports, and any participant auditioning thoughts and posts ought to be of interest and use to the thousands of hobbyists in the i-net world that can't easily audition these fine speakers.

We're looking to have a lot of fun at the GTG. But hopefully we can offer something useful to our friends in the audio world, as well.
 
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S

skeeter99

Junior Audioholic
I won't be able to make it this year. Send a PM and see if you can steal my place. :)


Granted, if you win this year, you have to send me the prize.
How about if I win we can split it ;) I get one speaker, you get the other :D

Dave...what was it you called Mazer? :D

Skeeter, I can put you on the waiting list. Right now, all seats are booked (including Dave's) for the speaker auditioning sessions. You never know...someone might cancel. In any event, if you like, you are welcome to come over for a little mingling after the event...probably around 4:00. PM me if you're interested in either.
I'll hold off for this year I think. Its a bit of a drive from Seattle to come down just to mingle. Not that everyone coming isn't super fantastically awesome but that is a long drive :D Maybe next year.
 
Tomorrow

Tomorrow

Audioholic Ninja
How about if I win we can split it ;) I get one speaker, you get the other :D



I'll hold off for this year I think. Its a bit of a drive from Seattle to come down just to mingle. Not that everyone coming isn't super fantastically awesome but that is a long drive :D Maybe next year.
Well, I don't know if everyone is super fantastically awesome, but the speakers are. Jim Salk sent a couple of pictures of the Ellis 1801B's he is sending. Behold....



 
Alex2507

Alex2507

Audioholic Slumlord
Well, I don't know if everyone is super fantastically awesome ...
Maybe not upon arrival but most certainly after being around all that gear for a day. It just makes people better. I'm kind of curious who the 9 people are in the listening test. I like the way you have a structured plan. In the interest of identifying the big brain in the room, who came up with that?

Something I wondered about is why we don't simply blindfold the listeners. Like maybe sit them down in front of a closed curtain, blindfold them and then open the curtain. If they remove the blindfolds then maybe just blind them to send a message ... no, strike that. It would remove the curtain from the listening equation. I bet Rick could get a deal on the blindfolds ... he might even have 9 of them. :eek: :D

thought: listeners probably need to see to take notes :eek:
 
STRONGBADF1

STRONGBADF1

Audioholic Spartan
Maybe not upon arrival but most certainly after being around all that gear for a day. It just makes people better. I'm kind of curious who the 9 people are in the listening test. I like the way you have a structured plan. In the interest of identifying the big brain in the room, who came up with that?

Something I wondered about is why we don't simply blindfold the listeners. Like maybe sit them down in front of a closed curtain, blindfold them and then open the curtain. If they remove the blindfolds then maybe just blind them to send a message ... no, strike that. It would remove the curtain from the listening equation. I bet Rick could get a deal on the blindfolds ... he might even have 9 of them. :eek: :D

thought: listeners probably need to see to take notes :eek:
The identities of the "Notorious Nine" must be kept a secret. We can't have unscrupulous types trying to bribe them. (although this would be futile due to the overwhelmingly high moral standard of the group:rolleyes:)

Blind folds were ruled out because some of the "Notorious Nine" are clumsy and we are not sure if RJ's homeowners insurance is paid in full...:eek:

My bet on the big brain is Mrs. Tomorrow. How else could RJ still be alive after all that has happened to him. Someone with mondo intelligence and common sense has to be looking after him.:)
 
Rickster71

Rickster71

Audioholic Spartan
Something I wondered about is why we don't simply blindfold the listeners. Like maybe sit them down in front of a closed curtain, blindfold them and then open the curtain.
No way! I won't fall for that blindfold routine twice.:eek:
Once in Mantown was enough.:D



I bet Rick could get a deal on the blindfolds ... he might even have 9 of them. :eek: :D:D
What professional Twister player wouldn't have 9 blindfolds?:confused:
 
Rickster71

Rickster71

Audioholic Spartan
I see RJ and the West Coast guys are really stepping up their game.:eek:

Ever since they became aware of the 5 Lbs of potato salad that Rob: Sawzalot brought to our N. East BBQ.... Seems like they feel they have to compete.:):D
I knew we should've had a blindfolded potato salad comparison. :D
 
STRONGBADF1

STRONGBADF1

Audioholic Spartan
I see RJ and the West Coast guys are really stepping up their game.:eek:

Ever since they became aware of the 5 Lbs of potato salad that Rob: Sawzalot brought to our N. East BBQ.... Seems like they feel they have to compete.:):D
I knew we should've had a blindfolded potato salad comparison. :D
They can't possibly match the quality of east coast potato salad!:D Sounds like it's time for a throwdown, Rob!
 
STRONGBADF1

STRONGBADF1

Audioholic Spartan
Well, I don't know if everyone is super fantastically awesome, but the speakers are. Jim Salk sent a couple of pictures of the Ellis 1801B's he is sending. Behold....



These sure are nice looking. I'm jealous that I'm not going to be there. More for the people than the audio but the audio would be worth the trip!:)
 
Tomorrow

Tomorrow

Audioholic Ninja
Have you ever wondered how they fold the blind? Or is it blind the fold? Think about it. These are serious issues we're dealing with...er...the 'Big Brain' is dealing with. ;)

And that's it! Next year's GNW GTG is going to be a Potato Salad Shootout. Idaho is OUR neighbor. The fix is already in. Ha.
 
Alex2507

Alex2507

Audioholic Slumlord
Have you ever wondered how they fold the blind? Or is it blind the fold? Think about it.
All Doug cares is that Rick wears his flats next time. Those shoes are killing the both of them. :D

 
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