2010 Audioholics $1k Floorstanding Loudspeaker Faceoff

Discussion in 'Loudspeakers' started by admin, May 27, 2010.

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  1. agarwalro Audioholic Ninja

    agarwalro
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    Perhaps I was a little curt in my last post. I sensed something that was valuable and worth saving and perhaps overreacted. Moving on...

    $5 says Jim Salk can match the finish on any of those Lansche veneers :D.
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  2. billy p Audioholic Ninja

    billy p
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    I see you psted this over at the Axiom forum and you inverted the 2 quoted posts accordingly...:cool:. I don't think this problem lies with Gene or Ian per se but rather people who they're closely associated with ...if, you get rid of them then you've sloved the problem...jk.:p

    Fwiw...I find it hard following or contributing to that forum just from what has transpired and I dunno why...:(.

    Regards, Bill...:)
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2012
  3. tom67 Full Audioholic

    tom67
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    So lets end this.....

    where it began.....Klipsch won the contest and it was a fair fight...and none of these contests are perfect.....so, perhaps the bottom line is that you might want to look at their products within given price points and not believe the stale, lame comments on websites by people who have never owned them...and Yamaha receivers are not "bright" either and on and on...
  4. haraldo Audioholic Spartan

    haraldo
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    My remark was not really about Gene but the credibility of the AH reviews and their process :D
    Now we move on!!!!!!!!

    Some remarks been said that the Lansche 5.1 is the best dynamic speaker some people heard.... (Obviously they didn't listen to the upscale models from same producer) well they better be considering the price tag.... but still.... need to make sure I deliver my lotto this week :p
  5. Paul_Apollonio Audioholic Intern

    Paul_Apollonio
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    I followed the link to the Axiom site, and would like to make an engineering sidenote. First of all by eliminating the series high-pass capacitor (at the VERY minimum) needed to protect the midrange from dangerous levels of peak LF content, this lowers the impedance of the system in a range where the output of the mids add NOTHING to the output of the Woofer; hence lowering system sensitivity. First bad. Second bad = pretending the worst of this can be found with a distortion sweep looking for 2nd and 3rd Harmonics. RUBBISH. The problem is that by eliminating the High Pass (HP) filter on the mids, the LF content will move the VC about, possibly out of the gap and thereby allow the LF to modulate (read distort) the midrange the speaker produces. With a sweeping test (one frequency at a time) there is NO WAY to see this effect, and Axiom is well aware of that. To see this effect, one must put in two frequencies simultaneously and view the output on a spectrum analyzer. (One can see distortion products as sum and difference frequencies) This is a simple process and one all audio engineers are familiar with. Sadly, not all customers are, so the charade continues.

    Even if the Midrange driver is made INCREDIBLY stiff, and placed in a very very small sealed enclosure minimizing excursion and hence this distortion, subjecting the midrange VC to the heat caused by the LF content is NEVER better than saving the price of the series capacitor. Unless, I guess, it is your money, and you don't really care about stressing an amp or drive unit you get paid to replace.

    There is such a thing as recommended practice and procedures, and the practice of eliminating the high pass filter, even if only a single series capacitor from the midrange driver is not a good idea by any stretch of imagination. In fact, it is a sign the designer is clueless or could care less about the result.

    As for the listening tests, there are never any shortage of people willing to claim a given distortion is inaudible. Of course, if you limit the input power to very low levels, you won't hear this problem. You won't hear many speaker distortions as most only show up on high drive levels.

    Certain physical principles apply to design, and it does not matter the brand or the politics involved. Allowing the large peak amplitudes of low frequency content to get to a midrange speakers voice coil is a terribly bad idea period.

    This is not a new concept. (At least to competent engineers who are not counting nickles and pennies). - Paul Apollonio
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 14, 2012
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  6. MinusTheBear Audioholic Ninja

    MinusTheBear
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    Axiom did this with the M80v1 as well with not so successful results.

    Emonatics - Emotiva Fans Site
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  7. gene Audioholics Master Chief Administrator

    gene
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    Time of Reconcile our Differences

    This constant back and forth between us, forum members and Axiom isn't productive for anyone involved. I honestly don't have it in my heart to sustain negative energy like this. I myself am to blame because I allowed it to progress on this forum rather than objectively removing or stopping the threads just like I would have done for any other manufacturer. For that, I apologize to Axiom.

    I think its better to agree to disagree on design aspects of loudspeakers and just be done with it. Everyone has their own reasoning that may work best (in their minds) for them. 100% truth can never be realized in something as subjective and emotional as the audiophile experience.

    There are MANY satisfied Axiom customers in the marketplace and it is obvious Axiom is meeting their needs. There are also many competing brands for those wanting something else. The free market rules!

    Going forward, I'd like to keep a more open mind and positive attitude towards all manufacturers and let the consumers decide based on our reviews and their experiences with the products if said products are right for their needs.

    Mods please note this and lets put the brakes on any future threads that turn out like this.

    I am closing this thread on a high note with hopes we can continue to cover new Axiom products for the benefit of readers interested in learning more about them.
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2012
    gene,
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