Will Klipsch RW-12D suck for music?

[steel_3d]

Looking at it on sale at newegg, but the soundandvisionmag shootout review kinda put me off:

This would be my first sub. I like musical bass as far as I can tell. I listen to a lot of trance, and everything else, rock, rap, pop.

Most people, especially those home theater oriented, focus on flat frequency response curves. The rw-12d has that. But I think for music you need more than that. You need an amp/enclosure that has tight control over the driver, low distortion. Does the rw-12d deliver (decently) in that respect? The review above implies otherwise.

Note that this would be my first sub, so I don't have extremely high expectations. I want good sound at normal (med-low) listening levels that won't piss everyone off inside and outside the house. I am also a bass-head, and I don't like flat eq, I want quite a bit of bass boost, even if the rest of the spectrum is at more reasonable listening levels.

I was really hoping to pick up an Epik legend, but missed out on the sale. Should I spring the extra 70 bucks for an stf-2? Jamo 650 is out of stock. Any other suggestions? Go used? $400 is my absolute max, but I'd like to keep it under 300.

My setup is:

large, very irregular, open living area. has horrible nulls and db variation from the bass from my mains. Probably 600sqft or more, normal ceilings. I don't expect or care to pressurize this.
Cerwin Vega VE-12F 2ch mains (12inch drivers should have decent bass, but not quite doing it for me)
Marantz 6005

Thanks for your help.

[Grador]

The RW-12d delivers decent bass with reasonable output. I wouldn't really classify it as a "bad" subwoofer, it is probably acceptable for your purposes, but it's not really "good". It reaches down somewhat low, it has somewhat quick response, it is mostly not boomy. I will say I was fairly surprised at it's total output which exceeded my expectations.

I cannot though tell you if the STF-2 is a good upgrade or not.

[shadyJ]

The STF2 might have a flatter frequency response than the RW-12d, but it won't have the RW-12D's output. Seeing as how seem to want loud bass but also accurate bass, I would save up for something that will satisfy both requirements. I would be looking at the Outlaw LFM-1 Plus, Power Sound Audio XS15, or Hsu VTF2 mk4.

[steel_3d]

Let me rephrase again I like more bass than what people would consider "flat" compared to higher frequencies. That's an eq thing. But as I said, my listening levels don't need to be earthshaking. Now I'm not sure what I should expect in terms of output since I've never had a sub. But I'm guessing I'd be less disappointed with one than without one.

If I could hear full bodied, musical bass, at moderate listening levels, I think I'd be satisfied.

So the key question is: is the rw-12d musical "enough" for the average person?

[Jeff R.]

How about the Cadence CSX-15.....it has been talked about pretty highly and will have plenty of output. I believe it is on sale for $400.

[Steve81]

So the key question is: is the rw-12d musical "enough" for the average person?

I'd expect it would get the job done for the average listener, yes. Granted, if you've got a Velo DD18+ right next to it, even the average listener would likely be able to hear the difference. Still, in a vacuum with no other frame of reference, the Klipsch is certainly passable.

Of course, tastes vary and the room plays a huge role the bass response of any sound system. Put the aforementioned Velo in a bad room and make no attempt to optimize response at the listening position, and you're going to get poor sound. Spend some time setting up and calibrating the Klipsch, and you'll be rewarded with pretty good sound.

[Grador]

As someone who has a 12d, I think Steve hit this one right on the head.

[j_garcia]

I would say the STF-2 is likely worth the additional funds, despite being 10". They are both listed as 24/25Hz, which means neither is likely to get you deep rumble, but both should be good in terms of output, with the Klipsch likely giving a bit more of it. What you will gain with the HSU is almost definitely a better driver (a driver which carries a 7yr warranty) and probably a better design in general, considering HSU's greater focus on subs.

IMO, I don't think the Klipsch will suck either, but it may not be the best you can get for your funds.

[Steve81]

A little info on the STF-2

Hsu Research STF-2 Subwoofer Test & Review

Using 104 dB as a midpoint, the 2M GP FR curve measured an outstanding +/- 2 dB from 25-100 Hz. The response was –9 dB (95 dB) at 20 Hz. With respect to dynamic compression, the curve stayed linear up to 102-103 dB in the 25-40 Hz bandwidth.

STF-2 10% THD Ground Plane 2 Meters (add 6 dB to obtain 1 meter values):

20 Hz: 74.7 dB
22 Hz: 80.9 dB
25 Hz: 91.7 dB
32 Hz: 99.5 dB
40 Hz: 98.8 dB
50 Hz: 104.8 dB
63 Hz: 106.9 dB
80 Hz: 104.7 dB

Nothing to sneeze at in terms of output to be sure.

[j_garcia]

The Klipsch site claims RW-12D's max ouput to be: 116dB @ 30Hz 1/8 space, 1m. The 24Hz spec is also +/-3dB though, meaning if we had a chart on it, it is likely -6dB at 24Hz.

The STF-2 has been a consistent budget recommendation for MANY years that I don't think anyone who has bought one has come back and complained about it. If your room is really big though, it probably won't cut it.