2.I have built the "SR71" which Zaph designed with the same midrange of er18. Will this plan get real improvement in sound stage or quality from Sr71?
Braves, how close are you to Oklahoma? If you're too far away, I'd probably, just maybe, be willing to have you ship your SR71's to my house and I'll give em a thorough comparison
.......but seriously.
Here's my progress on the ER-18s. it has been a slow process. Two kids (2,5 and 10mos) and the younger one has been in the hospital a bit. Doing better now
My shop is usually messy this is a new low. Embarrassed to make it public.
Soon....very soon...now for a new preamp
Jeff
Jeff, I have to say that those are some of the best looking speakers I've seen. Very classy looking bases and I love that veneer. I think I want to use that for my next project. I will have to contact you for some pointers though. Great job!
This is about a center channel speaker using the same ER18 woofer and Fountek ribbon tweeter as in the floorstanding version with the MLTL cabinet that skyline_123 built. It will contain two woofers and one tweeter in the usual sideways MTM arrangement. In a standard port-vented cabinet, it will likely be about 9" high.
Swerd, I recently had a conversation with GranteedEV about why a sideways MTM is not the best idea. Maybe he can chime in and repeat what he told me. I could try and regurgitate what he told me but I'd end up messing things up.
Skyline -
Well then, maybe I can get some additional info from you, if you don't mind.
After living with these speakers for some time, do you have any further comments on the sound quality ? Anything that you don't like at all ? I'm particularly interested in how violins sound at louder volumes. I listen to a lot of orchestral music, have yet to hear ( in my admittedly limited experience) speakers that aren't screechy or harsh with violins more often than not. Some of it probably has to do with my early 90's equipment.
Also, in your speaker search, what other designs did you consider ?? I myself would be interested in the Mini-statements by Curt C. except for the requirement to be 17 or so inches from the wall.
Anyway, if you have any further thoughts, I'd appreciate it.
Thanks,
David
I can say that my ears have adjusted to the point where I'm not blown away by the detail, amazing sound stage, and clean bass as much as I used to be. I still love them though. The room really does make a huge difference. Even now, even with my large living area, I'm still impressed with the bass from these.
Not too long ago, we watched Inception with a couple of subs running. As I'm sure you know, there is tons of bass in that movie. I was very disappointed, however, because the subs were not matched and, together, their response was very ragged. I later watched the movie again with just the ER18's running full range and I couldn't believe what I was hearing. The impact from these guys almost got me worried because it was almost rattling the room.
They don't necessarily have the same impact when it comes to music but occasionally, they still surprise me with movies.
There is something that I don't like about the Er18's but I can't tell if it's a result of the design, my construction methods, or the room. I think I'm hearing a bit of resonance in the enclosure. I haven't done any tests or anything so I haven't narrowed down what it is. Could just be in my head.
I don't listen to orchestral music, but I do have 3 sisters who play violin/viola. Maybe you could suggest some pieces that you listen to when you're evaluating a speaker?
As far as other speakers that I considered, I thought about The Statements, ZDT3.5, Millennium III's, TriTrix TL's and a couple more that I can't remember. I heard so many good things about Dennis Murphy and some of the speakers that he designed the crossovers for, like Song Towers, that I just sort of stopped looking after Alex and Swerd referred me to the Er18's. I'm glad I did
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I will take a visit to Aperion, I wonder what you can get for $800, and how would it compare with the ER18 under question. I've read that the rule of thumb is for every dollar invested in a DIY speaker you spend five times that amount at retail to equal the quality. So, I would have to buy a 3000 speaker to roughly equal my $600 spent on the ER18. Actually, that would be an interesting hypothesis to test out if you have the Lincoln City event this year.
David
I'm not sure what other options you're looking at for $800 but if this means anything to you, I had set up speaker comparison get together up at our local B&W dealership and the owner completely stood me up the day of. I'm pretty sure he didn't want to hear that $600-700 pair of DIY speakers sound better than his 802'
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Hey guys,
Sorry for the lag to get an update posted.
The room is about 20 x 25. Not treated and too live. Bass is particuarly ragged lots of EQ on the IB sub). There is a HT bulkhead between the speakers (hindsight....). The ER-18s are about 1' in front of the font plane of the cabinet. My HT rig has an IB sub but this is not used for music.
Me- old (49 yo). Too many years playing music standing next to a ride cymbal (usually with cigarette buts in my ears). Prefers acoustic music (jazz, folk, etc), rock or classical. Played saxophone for many years in my youth. Well aquainted with what instruments and live music sounds like.
I feel like the strengths of the ER-18 are:
Neutrality- These are very accurate speakers in my estimation. Not bright. Not boomy.
Imaging- These things throw a great soundstage and instruments have are layered fron to back and extend wel past the speaker width. I love this about the speakers. To me, this is their best strength.
Vocals sound great. Natural and neutral and well integrated into the soundstage. Horns sound like they should. Brass has the appropriate bite. Mine are truly a little hot, but I know that is my room. I can hear lots of detail that was not evident before. There appear to be very revealing without being strident to my ears.
High WAF. They look nicer than others I was considering.
Other stuff-
Bass response- Not knocking down the doors, but adequate. The speakers play plenty low for acoustic music. To my estimation, at least 40 hz. They are not rattling the walls or moving copious amount of air. Bass is tuneful and tight. My room is pretty large (500 sq ft with 9 foot ceilings) but bass is certainly adequate for me. I'm sure a 3 way with a 10" or 12" woofer would fill things out better but that is not a fair fight. BTW, my port was 1/4" smaller than recommended and i cut is slightly shorter so my guys are not built strictly to spec. i like the bass but it is only a relative strength (for 7" MTMs) and not an absolute strength. Nice bass. no slam.
Overall, I really like these speakers. They best my Modulas (these are not optimally setup), they are better than the Zaph budget ($200) MTM. Should not be a surprise. I heard some $10,000 Thiels with NAD electronics (in a different room) that sounded crazy clean, although a bit sterile. I thought the Theils were significantly better (duh). Sorry for not having a more appropriate comparison.
I would build them again. My electronics and room feel like they are limiting the speakers at this point.
JG
Thanks for the review! I'm still blown away with how great those look. You did an awesome job.
I think your room is the problem here. I've played around with putting mine is the master bedroom and what a difference! I was blown away once when I went from my old speakers to the ER18's and I was almost equally blown away when I took them from my living area to the bedroom. Huge differences there.
I think before I ever upgrade these speakers in the future, I will have a dedicated room with carpet and wall treatments.
Jeff-
Interesting comparing your impressions with Skylines. Both of you mention the spaciousness of the soundstage, the width & depth of the presentation.
Skyline seems to be a little more impressed with the bass than you, but, that could be due to room factors as well. Anything unique or different to the tweeter sound attributed to the ribbon ? I've never actually heard a ribbon tweeter so just curious.
Anyway, thanks again. Enjoy the speaks.
David
In regards to the ribbon tweeter, these are the first that I've ever heard. I don't know if my impression of them is just a matter of owning my first set of nice speakers or the ribbons really are that much better but I just feel like they are more effortless. An exaggerated analogy would be like listening to an 8" sub struggling to play a movie like Iron Man II, and listening to a 15" sub play the same movie. Even though they may play the same stuff, one will sound much more effortless. That's how I see it anyway.
