DIY beats commercial subs anytime (thread split from other commercial sub threads)

Pfft. 15" LMS driver for $550 from SoundSplinter (RL-S 15) + Behringer EP4000 amplifier + Behringer DCX2496 + Pre-Fab/Pre-Finished cabinet from Parts Express or other sources. Cut your hole for the driver. Mount it. Hook stuff up.

For about $1200 you will have a sub that will decimate the SVS. I don't think their driver (which I'm sure is great) is going to match the LMS.

-Chris

WmAx said:

Pfft. 15" LMS driver for $550 from SoundSplinter (RL-S 15) + Behringer EP4000 amplifier + Behringer DCX2496 + Pre-Fab/Pre-Finished cabinet from Parts Express or other sources. Cut your hole for the driver. Mount it. Hook stuff up.

For about $1200 you will have a sub that will decimate the SVS. I don't think their driver (which I'm sure is great) is going to match the LMS.

-Chris

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I think by now we all know that diy subs are potentially better than commercial subs, but for those that don't care to build their own sub, or who may not have room for an external amp and crossover/dsp, these offer viable solutions. I know that I could have gone the diy route, and even saved money, but I just didn't want to mess with it and I'm very happy with the results of my current subs.

WmAx said:

Pfft. 15" LMS driver for $550 from SoundSplinter (RL-S 15) + Behringer EP4000 amplifier + Behringer DCX2496 + Pre-Fab/Pre-Finished cabinet from Parts Express or other sources. Cut your hole for the driver. Mount it. Hook stuff up.

For about $1200 you will have a sub that will decimate the SVS. I don't think their driver (which I'm sure is great) is going to match the LMS.

-Chris

Click to expand...

You know me, I'm all about the DIY as well... but also keep in mind that one of the driver engineers from TC-Sounds was brought over to SVS, and its extremely apparent to me how SVS's drivers follow in the same footsteps. Now they obviously didn't get the rights to the patent for the Linear Motor technology design but their drivers are no slouches either.

Its a bit too soon to tell what the Sealed boxes from SVS will bring to the plate, but I have no doubt that they will be extremely capable, with the same excellent SQ SVS has shown with the Ultra13 sub measurements.

Now the only thing that stands out in my mind here is the on board amp, which would in my opinion would possibly be the only limiting factor... Only one way to overcome a sealed box is with huge excursion and brute force for high output. And a motor design to keep it clean.

WmAx said:

Pfft. 15" LMS driver for $550 from SoundSplinter (RL-S 15) + Behringer EP4000 amplifier + Behringer DCX2496 + Pre-Fab/Pre-Finished cabinet from Parts Express or other sources. Cut your hole for the driver. Mount it. Hook stuff up.

For about $1200 you will have a sub that will decimate the SVS. I don't think their driver (which I'm sure is great) is going to match the LMS.

-Chris

Click to expand...

Well you still need a drill, jig saw, screws, gasket tape, caulk, binding posts, XLR cables, and time. If a person makes 25 dollars an hour doing other work. Then factor in the cost of at least 8 hours of work and you have a close contest.

lsiberian said:

Well you still need a drill, jig saw, screws, gasket tape, caulk, binding posts, XLR cables, and time. If a person makes 25 dollars an hour doing other work. Then factor in the cost of at least 8 hours of work and you have a close contest.

Click to expand...

8 Hours of work? To cut a hole and mount driver in a pre-built box? Wow. You can buy a cheap drill for $10 and a cheap jig saw for $15. Hardly a real obstacle. I expect the average person could do it in 30 minutes. Now, if they want to mod the inside of the box to improve it's structure, I guess you could add 1-2 hours to that, depending on their efficiency.

-Chris

Warpdrv said:

You know me, I'm all about the DIY as well... but also keep in mind that one of the driver engineers from TC-Sounds was brought over to SVS, and its extremely apparent to me how SVS's drivers follow in the same footsteps. Now they obviously didn't get the rights to the patent for the Linear Motor technology design but their drivers are no slouches either.

Its a bit too soon to tell what the Sealed boxes from SVS will bring to the plate, but I have no doubt that they will be extremely capable, with the same excellent SQ SVS has shown with the Ultra13 sub measurements.

Now the only thing that stands out in my mind here is the on board amp, which would in my opinion would possibly be the only limiting factor... Only one way to overcome a sealed box is with huge excursion and brute force for high output. And a motor design to keep it clean.

Click to expand...

But still, for less then 1/2 the price, the self-assembly one I suggested has a better driver, better amp and far more powerful processing engine. I'm sure the motor on the SVS is nice, but I'm not aware of anything matching TC Sounds LMS drivers yet. Even if it was a match for the LMS, you still get much better amp and processor, and for 1/2 the price with the self-assembly method.

-Chris

Again, I'm not here to argue with ya my friend we are on the same page here... Obviously SVS is in business to make money and since they are still around - its safe to say that they are doing just fine and serve a great purpose for those willing to hand over the money. They certainly make a good product at a pretty reasonable price for the masses.

No question it can be done better and cheaper - but not many have the constitution/patients nor the time/skills to take things that far.

The LMS motor certainly is nothing to wave a stick at - absolutely incredible - I can't tell you how thrilled I am to have everything finally in place.

WmAx said:

8 Hours of work? To cut a hole and mount driver in a pre-built box? Wow. You can buy a cheap drill for $10 and a cheap jig saw for $15. Hardly a real obstacle. I expect the average person could do it in 30 minutes. Now, if they want to mod the inside of the box to improve it's structure, I guess you could add 1-2 hours to that, depending on their efficiency.

-Chris

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Just a reminder that not too long ago I mentioned to you that different people are good at different things but when it comes to estimating how long something will take, you may very well be the worst person in the world at that. You get to be good at plenty of other things though. I only bring this up because anybody even remotely interested in doing any of that stuff needs to be prepared to spend some serious time. If you want to improve a box's structure, plan on spending half a day coughing up oak, glue, screws, counter sinks, saw and table to work on. By then your probably hungry ... cooking food, cleaning the kitchen up and checking the new posts will shoot the other half of the day and by then Dr. Oz is on telling you how everything you just ate is gonna kill you. Can't miss that.

... just sayin'.

Alex2507 said:

Just a reminder that not too long ago I mentioned to you that different people are good at different things but when it comes to estimating how long something will take, you may very well be the worst person in the world at that. You get to be good at plenty of other things though. I only bring this up because anybody even remotely interested in doing any of that stuff needs to be prepared to spend some serious time. If you want to improve a box's structure, plan on spending half a day coughing up oak, glue, screws, counter sinks, saw and table to work on. By then your probably hungry ... cooking food, cleaning the kitchen up and checking the new posts will shoot the other half of the day and by then Dr. Oz is on telling you how everything you just ate is gonna kill you. Can't miss that.

... just sayin'.

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There's also the finding and buying all the stuff and the research needed in the first place. For the average non-woodworking type of guy who doesn't have a fully kitted out workroom and wants a sub with at least a modicum of waf, I'd guess that a project like this from inception to listening to that WoW scene will take weeks rather than hours. The first time around will take considerably more than just the basic cost of diver, box and amp too. Consider necessary tools and material wastage at least.

To end up with something looking and sounding at least as good as an SVS Ultra I'm betting you're going to have to pay a good amount more and spend a lot of time getting it.

I've considered it myself but with my skills I can't imagine producing anything that remotely resembles the looks of a commercial sub and given that my subs are in living spaces rather than dedicated bat caves, looks that aren't offensive are mandatory.

AdrianMills said:

There's also the finding and buying all the stuff and the research needed in the first place. For the average non-woodworking type of guy who doesn't have a fully kitted out workroom and wants a sub with at least a modicum of waf, I'd guess that a project like this from inception to listening to that WoW scene will take weeks rather than hours. The first time around will take considerably more than just the basic cost of diver, box and amp too. Consider necessary tools and material wastage at least.

To end up with something looking and sounding at least as good as an SVS Ultra I'm betting you're going to have to pay a good amount more and spend a lot of time getting it.

I've considered it myself but with my skills I can't imagine producing anything that remotely resembles the looks of a commercial sub and given that my subs are in living spaces rather than dedicated bat caves, looks that aren't offensive are mandatory.

Click to expand...

Did you look at the Part Express boxes?

http://www.parts-express.com/wizards/searchResults.cfm?searchFilter=CABINET&srchExt=&perPage=27&sortBy=1&layout=grid&page=1&srchPrice=&srchCat=535&srchMfg=&srchPromo=&srchAttr=

The WAF is there for the gloss black, cherry, or maple boxes. I have the Gloss black box and an SVS gloss black and the finish is great on both. (I would guess they are identical finishes, but haven't put them side by side).

All you do is cut the hole for the driver and drill/cut the hole for the speaker connection pass-through.

The guys here will tell you what to get. I'd say 8 hours is about right for the two I am doing. Much of that time is double & triple checking the measurments/layout, digging out the tools and, & getting everything setup outside so I don't get stinking MDF dust all over my basement!

However, since I have not used a DCX-2496 before, I suspect that learning curve will be a substantial time commitment on my part, but I'm looking forward to it.

If you got $$$ and don't enjoy this kind of thing at least a little, you probably shouldn't DIY!

Adrian, as the other poster pointed out, it's much easier than you make it out to be. And there is no reason to guess what parts you need. I have in the past, and will always be glad to specify the needed parts and sources to make a SUPERIOR subwoofer to the commercial ones listed here, and at considerably lower prices. The TC Sounds 12" and 15" LMS drivers (rebadged version sold at great price from Sound Splinter)are some of the highest performance low frequency drivers in the world and offers far more linear displacement and thermal power handling as compared to virtually all other drivers. Only a handful in the world can begin to compare, and then, still usually fall short from the LMS.

-Chris

KEW said:

Did you look at the Part Express boxes?

http://www.parts-express.com/wizards/searchResults.cfm?searchFilter=CABINET&srchExt=&perPage=27&sortBy=1&layout=grid&page=1&srchPrice=&srchCat=535&srchMfg=&srchPromo=&srchAttr=

The WAF is there for the gloss black, cherry, or maple boxes. I have the Gloss black box and an SVS gloss black and the finish is great on both. (I would guess they are identical finishes, but haven't put them side by side).

All you do is cut the hole for the driver and drill/cut the hole for the speaker connection pass-through.

The guys here will tell you what to get. I'd say 8 hours is about right for the two I am doing. Much of that time is double & triple checking the measurments/layout, digging out the tools and, & getting everything setup outside so I don't get stinking MDF dust all over my basement!

However, since I have not used a DCX-2496 before, I suspect that learning curve will be a substantial time commitment on my part, but I'm looking forward to it.

If you got $$$ and don't enjoy this kind of thing at least a little, you probably shouldn't DIY!

Click to expand...

I should have looked when it was first mentioned but now I have and I agree, the finished boxes make a big difference in the time it would take and in the final finish.

WmAx said:

Adrian, as the other poster pointed out, it's much easier than you make it out to be. And there is no reason to guess what parts you need. I have in the past, and will always be glad to specify the needed parts and sources to make a SUPERIOR subwoofer to the commercial ones listed here, and at considerably lower prices. The TC Sounds 12" and 15" LMS drivers (rebadged version sold at great price from Sound Splinter)are some of the highest performance low frequency drivers in the world and offers far more linear displacement and thermal power handling as compared to virtually all other drivers. Only a handful in the world can begin to compare, and then, still usually fall short from the LMS.

-Chris

Click to expand...

Chris, after spending the past one and a half months trying to finish my relatively simple HT build - original estimate was a couple of weeks - even putting a driver in a box would probably take me a week!

But I would be very interested (and I guess others here would too) in what parts you'd put together to build a 15" or > SVS Ultra 13/16 killer. Assume that the cost wouldn't necessarily have to come in under the price of an Ultra 13/16 as I'm more interested in performance than saving a couple of $100 (within reason of course )

I was thinking that my Ultra13 will remain downstairs in my living room and my old SVS PB12plus2 will be going upstairs into my projector room... but if it sounds like a workable plan, maybe I could sell the plus2 and build a Ultra killer instead...

Browsing around I came across the LMS-Ultra page http://www.audiopulse.com/products/subwoofer-drivers/lms-ultra/ I'm curious how good the 18" of this would be in a ready made sealed box (if you could find one big enough) with a big pro amp...

I've went both ways, a SVS PB12 for my HT and two DIY speakers for my garage tri amp system.

I am in agreement you can build a better speaker that you can buy, if you get all the parts and enclosure right.

Not sure how some are building your DIY speakers but even with the full wood shop I have, there's no way I could build a PB12 in a hour or two.

If I consider the time it takes to build a DIY and include research time, time to go get materials, cost of woodworking and electoral tools, that huge savings just doesn't work out to be so huge.

fwiw..my main thoughts on DIY is, I'm building it and I can get satisfaction from that and, if all goes right, I'll have a better speaker than what I could have bought.
imho

Al

WmAx said:

Pfft. 15" LMS driver for $550 from SoundSplinter (RL-S 15) + Behringer EP4000 amplifier + Behringer DCX2496 + Pre-Fab/Pre-Finished cabinet from Parts Express or other sources. Cut your hole for the driver. Mount it. Hook stuff up.

For about $1200 you will have a sub that will decimate the SVS. I don't think their driver (which I'm sure is great) is going to match the LMS.

-Chris

Click to expand...

I can speak from experience, I purchased the TC-Sounds 15" with a DCX2496 and a EP2500. This Sub is astounding. I have yet to tweak the settings but plan on getting there this week. Either way, I have the makings of a great system thanks to the help of many on this forum.

$1200 dollars pfft, try less than $400.

Since when has DIY ever cost more than buying something from a retailer? I mean, I agree with this thread but isn't it kind of obvious?

Anything you can put together at home is going to be cheaper than if you paid someone to put it together, and most likely far superior.

There is a reason why everyone doesn't put together their own computers, or makes their own furnature. In all honesty a factory built sub makes much more sense to 90% of anyone who plans on buying one. Just like everything else in this world.

Shock said:

Since when has DIY ever cost more than buying something from a retailer? I mean, I agree with this thread but isn't it kind of obvious?

Anything you can put together at home is going to be cheaper than if you paid someone to put it together, and most likely far superior.

There is a reason why everyone doesn't put together their own computers, or makes their own furnature. In all honesty a factory built sub makes much more sense to 90% of anyone who plans on buying one. Just like everything else in this world.

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Shock, the thread title is sort of misleading. It's not really about 'true' DIY. This thread was split from another (about the new large SVS sealed subs). I did not make up the thread title, a mod did. The point I was making was simply putting together pre-fab stuff(including fully pre-finished cabinet) for much cheaper and with much higher performance compared to buying the new large sealed SVS subs. The only work needed is to cut a hole for the driver and install it, and set up the electronic hardware.

-Chris

Shock said:

Since when has DIY ever cost more than buying something from a retailer? I mean, I agree with this thread but isn't it kind of obvious?

Anything you can put together at home is going to be cheaper than if you paid someone to put it together, and most likely far superior.

There is a reason why everyone doesn't put together their own computers, or makes their own furnature. In all honesty a factory built sub makes much more sense to 90% of anyone who plans on buying one. Just like everything else in this world.

Click to expand...

Opportunity costs. If you make over a certain amount then it is cheaper to buy something than make it. Now, it might be FUN to build one, then that is something different, but from an economical standpoint I'd be better off working than chopping and glueing wood.

Shock said:

Since when has DIY ever cost more than buying something from a retailer? I mean, I agree with this thread but isn't it kind of obvious?

Anything you can put together at home is going to be cheaper than if you paid someone to put it together, and most likely far superior.

There is a reason why everyone doesn't put together their own computers, or makes their own furnature. In all honesty a factory built sub makes much more sense to 90% of anyone who plans on buying one. Just like everything else in this world.

Click to expand...

Actually furniture and computers are both examples where it would cost you more to make than going commercial. In my experience, the only time it makes sense to DIY for furniture or computers is when I have custom needs.