When taking on the task of reviewing products for consumers there are different ways to get across the conclusions and experiences of the reviewer. Objective testing and subjective viewpoints are both presented, and price is also included in the evaluation process. But there are so many methodologies and considerations, how does Audioholics keep it all straight? Frank asks a very valid question and we thought it was good enough to include it for public consumption to outline just how Audioholics handles this issue.
Discuss "Subjective Loudspeaker Reviews - All About Price?" here. Read the article.
When taking on the task of reviewing products for consumers there are different ways to get across the conclusions and experiences of the reviewer. Objective testing and subjective viewpoints are both presented, and price is also included in the evaluation process. But there are so many methodologies and considerations, how does Audioholics keep it all straight? Frank asks a very valid question and we thought it was good enough to include it for public consumption to outline just how Audioholics handles this issue.
Discuss "Subjective Loudspeaker Reviews - All About Price?" here. Read the article.
I can't think of any review that would not include price into the equation. Its the only way I know of that forces the reviewers to compare apples to apples and not apple to oranges. What I mean is , I would think it unfair to compare a speaker in the $500 range against a speaker in the $2500 range and expect the cheaper speaker to score decent marks. Yes I know there are exceptions but I'm speaking in terms of generality here. Your scale would become too large and meaningless if you tried to score on an absolute basis.
I can point to a review done by Audioholics where the reviewer gave a very unflattering review to PSB Alpha series and it was unflattering not becuase they didn't do well in their price bracket, they didn't do well compared to speakers costing 5 times their amount. That to me is the perfect example as to why one cannot use an absolute scale in reviews
This cost association also boils down to the consumer. When people buy speakers, they usually don't go around comparing $500 to $2500 speakers. They stick to the budget as close as possible and compare speakers in similar price brackets.
Subjective comparisons I take with a grain od salt as no one has my hearing nor do I have their hearing. Another man's meat is another man's poison. Subjective comparisons may establish a baseline from which to start but its only just that, a starting point. An audition will quickly realign the starting point of comparison by the cutomer.
I have to agree with Admin. on this speaker testing issue. Unfortunately with any electromechanical advice pure testing alone is not going to tell you how it sounds. In this aspect speakers are the worst of all. It is well nigh impossible to convey how a speaker sounds in words.
The fact is designing and building a speaker is that tricky combination of science, art and judgment.
In this highly technical world in which we live this tends to get people out of their comfort zone. As a critical care physician this is well within my comfort zone!
If you go to the B & W site you will see that they are very honest on this point, they do good design and measurement, but have to voice even their most expensive speakers after extensive listening tests.
I have been building speakers for over 50 years, and I can tell you that is true. Worse than that it takes several months of listening to get to know a speaker. The late John Wright of TDL, who I think produced some of the finest speakers of his generation, taught me that. Once he had a speaker good, he would not tinker with it until three or four months of listening had elapsed. This is how you progress from good to excellent.
I understand the members' problem. They want to buy speakers at heavy discount over the Internet, sight unseen. I'm sorry, but at the current state of the art it is just not possible to build an excellent system this way.
So the golden rules are.
Don't buy a speaker you have not heard.
Even if you have heard it, make sure you can return it at least within thirty days. Be warned however that even 30 days may not be enough for the speaker to reveal all it's vices to you.
When it comes to speakers there really is no substitute for a competent, understanding and accommodating local dealer. Unfortunately they are a dying breed, the big box and Internet retailers have done it for most of them.
Actually that allows unscrupulous speaker manufacturers to get away with murder, of the music anyway.
I could see matching up speakers using a more objective scale with a price barrier.
For instance:
MAP pricing $45-$250 has a set of parameters to meet or a reference standard to which others are judged, $500-$750 (MAP) another, $750-$1,250 (MAP) another set, $1,250-$2,500 (MAP), and $2,500+ (MAP). You could associate a reference standard and expected performance envelopes in each of the 5 categories. Comparing speakers from one price point to another would be easier and give a general idea of what may be expected by moving up in price each time. It would definitely let a person know if the speaker does better or worse than the norm for the group.
Sure it is not perfect but no system will ever be as someone will always make a speaker that falls on the fringes of one category or another.
The biggest thing to stress with an outlined semi-objective system would be to listen before you buy and/or make sure a speaker has a good return policy. How it sounds to the purchaser is what matters most.
__________________
Do you Believe the Truth or Seek it.
Annunaki
The other 800 pound gorilla in the situation is that even if there is a measurement based, objective measure of a speaker's accuracy, when you take it home, a speaker becomes part of a room that is different from the dealer's room, the reviewers room and every other room in your house. The dimensions, materials, carpeting, furniture, placement and everything else changes the way the speakers sound. Not only do you need to never buy a speaker you have not heard, but even then, it will be an adventure until you hear it in your own situation.
The other 800 pound gorilla in the situation is that even if there is a measurement based, objective measure of a speaker's accuracy, when you take it home, a speaker becomes part of a room that is different from the dealer's room, the reviewers room and every other room in your house. The dimensions, materials, carpeting, furniture, placement and everything else changes the way the speakers sound. Not only do you need to never buy a speaker you have not heard, but even then, it will be an adventure until you hear it in your own situation.
It is true that the room does affect the perceived sound to a degree, and with far too many speakers to a high degree. A speaker that sounds very different in different environments has something the matter with it. I have built speakers I have taken them on location recording in a lot of venues. A significantly different sound in different locals is a red flag for trouble with a speaker.
The reason is that the off axis response is reflected back to the listener within the Haas fusion zone. The take home lesson is that the off axis response must closely mirror the axis response. The axis HF response can roll off, but the mid band must mirror the axis response closely. If not the reflected response will clearly color the sound. This will result in a speaker being fussy as to what room it is in.
I know this will start another controversy, but I believe a lot of this room treatment is to provide a balm to speakers with a poor waterfall response graph.
Honestly my speakers do not need room treatment, nor do other superior loudspeakers.
I have been asked in other threads why there is no room treatment in this space.
Well this speaker system recreates acoustic spaces that I'm familiar with, with uncanny accuracy and I just don't need to spoil the aesthetic plastering room treatments about.
I've spoken to other engineers that use very good location monitors, and they agree with me that good speakers are not fussy.
The Following User Says Thank You to TLS Guy For This Useful Post:
Consumer reports only has 6 speaker companies that they review? That is stupid.
CR is not published to please the audio crowd but their subscribing public who are more in the 'general' category and what may be readily available to its readers. That is my take on it, but perhaps a letter to them may shed a different light on the subject.
Honestly my speakers do not need room treatment, nor do other superior loudspeakers.
In what universe do your speakers exist? That is a seriously arrogant and ignorant statement about the scientific reality of sound reproduction. You cannot make "room proof" speakers. However, I will let you sit and enjoy your inferior sound.
__________________
It's time to make a difference. Stand up and fight for your rights and your country. Write your representatives, vote, organize rallies, do whatever is necessary to bring back the America our Founding Fathers intended, not the dictatorial sham of a democracy we have now. There is still hope!
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to jaxvon For This Useful Post:
Honestly my speakers do not need room treatment, nor do other superior loudspeakers.
It may be true that your speakers don't need room treatment in order to satisfy your personal standard(s) for audio quality.
However, where higher quality standards are required, there is no avoiding proper room acoustic(s) behaviour, which in real rooms, requires physical treatements/correction(s).
A speaker with a substantially poorer off axis response will indeed sound worse in a untreated room vs. one with a linear off axis reponse. This is concluded in perceptual studies by Toole. But in no case is a speaker optimal with no room treatments. A speaker with even off axis response can be optimized with less treatments; but a substantial amount are still required to optimize sound quality.
-Chris
__________________ Dedicated to improving the real[quantifiable] parameters of sound reproduction.
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to WmAx For This Useful Post:
Subjective Loudspeaker Reviews - All About Price?
Linear Mode
