Cary Audio Cinema 11

as i've previously posted, i demoed a cary cinema 6 several times prior to purchasing my anthem avm 30, & while the analog sound quality was spectacular, the lack of xlr & lower digital performance than i was able to achieve with the anthem, plus the anthem's additional options over the cinema 6 is what swayed me towards the avm 30.

currently have the new cinema 11 on demo. the look, build quality, fit & finish are what 1st caught my eye, this is a stunning piece of equipment, particularly when compared to the rather drab boxiness of the cinema 6. the cinema 11 has a much lower profile than your typical pre-pro or receiver, with well laid out buttons & a silky, substantial volume control. as with many pre-pros/receivers, not all functions have a corresponding button on the front panel, although a 4 button arrangement in the shape of a cross does allow access & navigation of the setup menu. the buttons one would most typically need are present without too many cluttering up the faceplate.

the cinema 11 also offers several things which the cinema 6 did not, xlr stereo connection & xlr digital connection, 7.1 xlr output, dsp is now available on the analog inputs, a substantial set up mike is included w/ an xlr connection, auto set up, ces 7.1 processing, room correction, & seperate crossover settings for each speaker. there is also a deletion from what the cinema 6 offered, as the cinema 11 lacks video inputs or switching of any kind. the lack of being able to use a monitor for set up purposes is a bit of a pain if your blind like i am, but otherwise i like the concept of keeping video out of the pre-pro. there also is no hdmi input.

the auto setup is easy, & any setting can be modified manually after performing the set up. each rca input can be set to bypass or dsp, & you can rename each input (except perhaps the 7.1 i have not tried renaming any of them). i prefer this type of configuration as opposed to having labeled inputs, as it allows greater flexibility in set up & cable routing. the back panel is well laid out & readable if your leaning over the unit which assists in setup.

i have not performed an ab comparison with my anthem yet, i will over the next few days, so the following is my opinion on the sound quality. the analog bypass is very, very good, at least as good as my avm 30 & potentially better. again i will do some ab comparisons later this week & report the results. very low noise floor, excellent soundstaging & imaging, excellent detail - i heard the bass player breathing on patricia barber's nightclub several times, something i don't recall hearing before, & i have listened to this disc hundred's of times. the cinema 11 also allows dsp for analog inputs as well, which is also excellent- not sure that it is quite to the level of the bypass but really have done little ab comparison, as the bypass mode for stereo playback is so good. the analog bypass provides a very high quality stereo pre-amp for a pre-pro.

as for the digital, the cinema 11 is an improvement over the cinema 6, at least for movies (i got rid of cable over a year ago), & is the equal, or perhaps even an improvement over my avm 30. watched alot of movies over the weekend but most were ones which i had not watched through the avm 30 so no way to compare (half price books had a better selection than normal in movies for some reason). did watch several scenes from miami vice, the opening boat sequence which i have always found a bit of a disappointment no matter what i'm using, the 1st gunfire sequence where the fbi undercovers are blown apart by that giant rifle sounded fantastic, as did when crockett drives the ferrari thought the parking garage onto the roof. digital sound quality reminded me of running the 5910 into my avm 30 using analog inputs, which i preferred over feeding the avm 30 a digital signal for movies. i found the 5910 to be stellar sound quality wise for movies (& particularly an improvement for dolby digital), so i was surprised that the cinema 11 had the same sound quality using a digital input. i returned the 5910 when i picked the cary up so i have to go on memory.

i have not used more than just briefly any of the PLIIx or other matrix surround programming as those are just not my cup of tea. the only one which i have used is the ces 7.1 all stereo when doing chores around the house this weekend, which sounded excellent although with very odd imaging to this typically 2 channel music listener.

on the down side, manual set up or more appropriately manual tweaking can be a bit of a chore, as you have to flip down through the complete menu when making adjustments. this is a strength of the avm 30 which allows alot of adjustment on the fly. if your a set up & leave it person this is not really an issue, if your constantly changing settings this can be a pain. the avm 30 also offers 2 different set up modes, one for cinema & 1 for music which the cinema 11 lacks. as with the cinema 6, there still can be a pop at times when going from one input to the other while music or a movie is on. the cinema 11 shows when a digital signal is lost on the front screen, & i have not checked whether you can set a longer period for it to hold on to a signal. however this is not as pronounced as it was in the cinema 6, & does not occur all the time. the manual is typical cary audio, simple & easy to follow but not the most informative. the remote is adequate, with well labeled buttons. there is also a 2nd smaller remote for zone 2 operation.

more will follow in a few days after doing some ab comparison with the anthem. i'm interested in seeing if my preliminary conclusions hold up after doing some ab testing. also unsure that i will buy at this time as i want to try & demo the new parasound all analog P7 pre-pro, & i would like to try a cary, macintosh or potentially other brand stereo pre-amp to see how close any of these pre-pros come to a stereo only pre-amp. however for those who are seeking a new pre-pro with an excellent stereo pre-amp & digital processing & have no need for hdmi or video switching, you may want to contact your local cary dealer & arrange a demo.

I've had a Cinema 11 in my stack since January with no complaints (and a few pleasant surprises), but I do have one quibble: processing is an all or nothing affair (unlike the Denon 3805 that was doing service as the prepro before this), which allowed you to add (via the inbox crossover) a subwoofer on pure direct. With the Cary, you either use no DSP and hope your speakers reach down far enough for your musical tastes, or you process the signal in the prepro, and hope you like the sound.

Bryan...I like some things better one way more than the other, and some I find no different...

very nice system flyvr65, i have heard great things about spendor speakers but have not had the opportunity to hear them as no one carries them in indy. have demoed the dvd7 3-4 times at home & have always been very impressed w/ both the audio & video quality, really like that you shut the volume control off (which you cannot w/ my dvd6) & it's the best disc player audio quality wise i have demoed at home w/ the exception of a cary 300/303cd player.

as for the all or nothing of dsp, that is a benefit to me but can see how it might be a detriment to others, particularly as a sub is the last thing on my shopping list (i will eventually buy one, but have yet to even start the demo process). with any pre-pro i have purchased 2 channel playback is always in direct or bypass mode.

1 thing i noticed from the manual but have not been able to try out, as i lack a disc player with balanced conections, is that if i recall correctly you cannot use the balanced 2 channel input & the balanced digital input at the same time, or perhaps it was you could not have them both connected at the same time, as both xlr connections (analog, digital) are input 1. can you offer any insight?

due to my recent travel/work schedule have had zero time for further listening other than having it on while ironing & taking a shower of a morning, although this morning's selection of kodo/heartbeat (japanese drums) was alot of fun. will try & get to do some ab comparisons in next few days

I'll have to check for you: I *can* say that right now, I'm running balanced analogue (no processing, input 1), unbalanced analogue (but processed, input 2), and digital multi channel (processed, input 3) at the same time-all the outputs are live, all the time for the DVD7, and the prepro handles it all with aplomb. Sorry, I haven't hooked up the balanced digital input, but I'm pretty certain that you can use either the balanced digital OR the balanced analogue for input 1-not both. Have you been throught the owners manual for this?

Bryan...and thanks for the comments on my system ...

was able to finally do some ab comparision between the cinema 11 & avm 30 this weekend. after a bit of moving components around was able to switch from one to the other in under a minute. only compared 2 channel, cinema 11 in bypass & avm 30 in analog direct. after some trial & error, was able to adjust the volume on level in the avm 30 so that it was close to the cinema 11 volume on level - made it easier to switch back & forth & not have to adjust volume as much once switched, & then used a spl meter on each song to make sure that levels were as close as i could get. in the end was less painless than i thought it would be, once i realized that rear panel layout on avm 30 was opposite of cinema 11 (one had left channel on bottom the other on top). both are very good stereo pre-amps, & would not be unhappy with either one, but could tell a difference between the 2, particularly on music i know very well. the cinema 11 has a deeper & at times slightly taller soundstage, but the real difference was what was going on within the soundstage. a signature 8 does not have the best imaging/soundstage i have heard, but it was improved w/ the cinema 11. it's still not hyper precise imaging like w/ a vandersteen 5A, but particularly how different sounds "moved" within the soundstage was more distinct with the cinema 11. with one track on tracy chapman telling stories hdcd i actually had to get up & go read the front panel to make sure that i had not hit the wrong input button as it sounded as the surrounds were on. was eveything that profound a difference, no. but the detail retrival & improved soundstaging sold me, the last 5-6 notes of accoustic guitar on counting crows live accoustic album, the 1st few seconds where its just the drums on track 4 of joshua tree, the bassline in with or without you was powerful & tight w/o being blotted, when edge's guitar kicks in, the whatever the sounds are swirling around on nine inch nails further down the spiral - hurt, all of this was simply more pronounced & well defined than with the avm 30. cinema 11 also appeared to have a more distinct channel seperation & perhaps a slightly lower noisefloor. however there is a down side as well, as if a recording is the slightest bit sibilant or bright this also comes out in even more pronounced detail, the cinema 11 does not in any way cover for a bad recording.

considering the appearance, how it matches my other cary gear, being able to route power cords down one side of the equipment stand, price & improved sound quality i'm most likely going to get the cinema 11. the cinema 11 does not match the flexibility, ease of use, & ability to make adjustments on the fly as the avm 30, but these are things i am willing to live without for improved sound quality for stereo.

I picked up a Cinema 11 a few weeks ago, and have been enjoying it immensely. I truly appreciate its simplicity and sound quality. My previous preamp was the Outlaw 990, and the Cary improved my soundstaging and bass, if not more.

I don't use a lot of features and processing modes, so it's great for me. I do use Zone 2 a lot, and I love (love!) that I can control Z1 and then Z2 immediately, or Z2 and then Z1 immediately. The Outlaw would remain in Z2 "mode" for five to eight seconds before reverting to "normal" Z1 mode, even if you used the "main" volume control on the "main" remote. Very annoying, and something my wife would even bring up. That feature alone is worth the price!

A couple of functional nits -- I would like to be able to send a signal to the sub, as dictated by the sub's crossover point, when using "DSP" mode and mains set to "FULL". In all other cases, sub and main bass will overlap, as dictated by their crossover points. However, when mains go "FULL" all sub output disappears. If I were forced to, I could argue either way on it, but in the end I think it's a firmware bug. Additionally, there's a formal, discrete "on/off" for the sub in the "Speaker->Config" menu that allows the user to turn off the sub; it shouldn't be tied to what the mains are doing.

I also think that the sub out should receive a direct copy of the input signal when using "Bypass" mode. No filtering applied, just the straight analog copy at both the main and sub outs. That allows me to throw in a little sub when listening to a pure analog source. Sure, I have to process to apply a LPF, but that's OK. That's one feature that the Outlaw had that I really did like.

For $3K, the remote could be a little nicer. I use a Harmony 890 anyway, so the Cary remote's in a drawer, but still...

Aside from that, I like it, and I plan to keep it around for some time (but we know how that goes...).

have had "my" (as opposed to a demo) cinema 11 for some time now, although it arrived in black instead of the silver i ordered. intended to just use for weekend & return & order silver, but the black looks pretty wicked so kept it. also have had a demo cary 300/303 since i picked up 11, & balanced for 2 channel sounds fantastic. took akot of time to dial it in, as the 303 has such a high output in balanced that it can sound strident in the treble at higher volumes, but by lowering the 303 volume control to about 57-59 (max is 63, & why can i not turn off the volume control as you can with a dvd7) & setting the analog in at -1 to -2 any treble stridency is gone. can also turn up the 303 volume a notch or 2 & set analog in to 0 if i want to act juvenile & rock the planet.

have also used the balanced digital input as well, & the 11 has a very solid dac, but the dac in the 303 still beats it, or it could be that the balanced analog input in bypass is better than the DSP mode. have not resolved the input 1 scenario, reviewed the manual but could not tell if i hook up a DVD player with a balanced digital output to the 11 & hook up a cd player with a balanced analog input if it will switch between the 2 if the other component is off. not easy to find a dvd player with a balanced digital output, but dying to try. don't think it would work using the same player unless you could shut the digital output off, as i assume both would be active & have no idea what the 11 would do. when i switch from balanced analog to balanced digital (in other words i unhook both the xlr analog & plug in the xlr digital the 11 automatically switches from one to the other, so i think it might work if i use 2 different players & the player which is not in use is turned off. if this would work, then for 1st time my system would be completely balanced for multichannel (this is assuming that the 11 xlr digital input on input 1 is not limited to 2 channel, or for lack of a better term the input 1 balanced digital input is connected to the balanced outputs for multichannel.) don't know why they would not be, but the manual is a bit vague in this dept.

all cary remotes are bare bones utilitarian & nothing to look at.

was able to compare the 11 with the mac 45 in balanced 2 channel using the demo 303, & the mac is a better 2 channel pre-amp, but it's no where near a night & day difference, & might come down to a matter of personal preference. however the 11 offers alot more versatility than the 45 as a home theater pre-pro so i'm sticking w/ the 11.