My music room is coming together nicely, and I'm starting to look into power conditioning. *I'm in an area with frequent lightening storms, so surge supression is a must. *
Wow- I must say that the stuff around power conditioning is at least the equal to what we read about cables, and the pricing is not minor either. *For example, there is one unit that just plugs into the wall, and doesn't actually connect to your audio system, for which the designer says:
""The Symphony’s designed to make coherent the random, chaotic motion of electrons in the components of the circuit design. Once made coherent, the electrons remain that way"
The Absolute Sound, of course, found layers and layers of deep transparancy, a reduction of grain, and significant improvement of inner detail and coherence. *Has anyone noticed that they always find this? * I'd really like to weld up a fine looking stainless steel box that weights about 40 pounds with a fancy looking faceplate, sent it to them with some fine sounding 'phisicks', and tell them to just place it beside their system, and see if they find the above *
In any case, has anyone really looked into what sort of line conditioning really works and makes some difference worth paying for?
My system is looking to be:
Copland CDA 822 high resolution CD player
Copland CSA29 *hybrid integrated amp
Thiel CS2.2 speakers
We're heading in that direction but will need to convince a few companies to play ball first. We're having some success with some excellent cable companies who are promoting their cables with real science and not make-believe - we hope to find the same with some power conditioning companies.
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Clint DeBoer
Editor in Chief Audioholics
For the most part, I think power conditioners are a bunch of hype. I compared an $80 Tripp Lite vs. my $500 Monster Cable HTS3600. There was no difference in sound quality. The only improvement I noticed with the Monster unit was slightly better reduction of video noise (and I mean slight). It wasn't worth the price difference. Unfortunately for me I was already past the return date when I performed the test.
If you have a relatively new home, chances are that the power coming in will be clean and free from noise problems. Do you have noise problems now?
ED27 : If you have a relatively new home, chances are that the power coming in will be clean and free from noise problems. *Do you have noise problems now?
Not so I've noticed- as I mentioned, we live in T-storm country, so I've got everything on surge suppressors. *In fact, we had a bolt hit close to the house about 2 years ago and it blew our indoor/outdoor thermometer. *We are also subject to brown out- I notice that Parts Express has Tripplite powerconditioners for under $200 which might make sense.
I was curious as to opinions as to the high priced stuff, like Gray's Power Company or Chang's. *Big claims are made, big prices are charged, so I thought it'd be worth discussing here.
I recently went through a pretty heavy round of research into the subject. I pulled a dedicated 20 amp circuit for all the networking and home theater stuff, and I was eager to install some sort of esoteric power conditioning rig. I eventually decided against the esoteric and went with the more practical.
BTW, I’m kinda new to the site (witness my post count). I’m an audio engineer working these days in radio, and my area of expertise is more in content production (recording, mixing, editing, etc.). I’m not an expert in electronics, power distribution and grounding. But I do work with the RF engineers who are, and they’ve been a great resource on this subject.
One colleague said that all this power conditioning stuff is a solution to a problem, and you first need to make sure you actually have a problem. If your electric company is anything more than an outfit with a squirrel-powered generator, chances are your power is just fine. The power supply of a given component will deal with the typical voltage it’s seeing at your wall outlet, and whatever background EMI/RFI noise there is on the line ain’t *gonna be worth throwing a lot of money at. You’d probably go from having a really really quiet system, to a really really really quiet system, if there’s any difference at all (just ask ED27). However, we should all keep an eye on the development of this broadband-over-power line technology (internet service) that’s coming ‘round the bend. Sounds like a can of worms in the making.
Anyway, with all that said, that leaves the issue of surge protection. I’ve heard more than one story of an expensive TV getting fried in a thunderstorm. But more often than not, it was through the coax cable, not the AC line. Our current day A/V systems are an interconnected jungle involving AC, phone and coax lines (not to mention network and audio interconnects that can pass along surges). Damaging surges can come from all over the place. So be darn sure to have a proper grounding scheme on the outside of your house for any antenna, dish, and/or cable TV service. Aside from obvious safety issues, this ground scheme is also an important equipment protection measure.
So for my dedicated 20 amp circuit, I didn’t go for any “power conditioning”, namely, voltage stabilization. But I did get a surge protector from Surgex. It’s a 20 amp unit that’s housed in a NEMA enclosure (looks like a little electrical sub-panel). I ran the circuit through my furnace room where I placed the Sugex, and the line then continues to the HT outlets. It protects the entire circuit, and it uses a type of protection known as “series mode”, as opposed to the typical MOV-based kind. Instead of shunting a surge to ground, it slowly dissipates a surge to neutral avoiding the dreaded “ground contamination” that I hear so much about in the audio bidness (if you want to know more, I can expand later… just trying to keep this post under a million words ). It’s a little spendy at $300, but it protects the whole circuit, it filters EMI/RFI, I don’t have to use bulky plug strips in the family room, and there are no MOVs to wear out (which they do over time). They also make versions that look more like power strips.
This is also a product aimed at the pro audio/video market, which seems to have a lot less tolerance of snake oil products. Surgex has a consumer brand called Empower aimed at the over-the-top home theater market, and the equivalent unit comes with a number of additional, yet unnecessary, features. And guess what, it costs a lot more.
Wow, thanks, that was very helpful. Excellent point about being sure that you've got a problem.
In the case of surge protection- we were subject to the Great Eastern Blackout of '03, when the power came back on, it fried my coffee grinder, one of the few things not on a surge protector (and, yes, I'd unplugged everything I could think of, but I've also had power failure that only lasted a minute or two). And, as I mentioned, we do have frequent thunderstorms in the spring and fall. I'll look into the product you mentioned.
In so far as the other products go- I suppose, if one wished to see, you'd have to be sure that you purchased things with a good return policy, and be sure to send it back if you couldn't hear a difference. Hmmmm- might be a way to evaluate some of this stuff too.
hi - just a few questions - I am looking at getting this conditioner ---> CLICK HERE
Any thoughts on this one?
also what is "ground contamination" and what is an MOV and why / how do they wear out?
Also, I am looknig at building a new house and incorpoerating a whole room just for home theatre into it... any suggestions on any topics for a dedicated room?
Parts Express sells the Tripp Lite ISOBAR 6DBS SURGE SUPPRESSOR for $77.50 which I believe would be every bit as good as that Monster power bar for about 1/3 the price. *Trying to cut through the verbage, I think that all the Monster Power Bar is, is a good surge suppressor with RF filtering and coax and phone protection. I've had very good like with Tripp Lite products, and understand that they have an excellent reputation. Here's the description of it the Tripp Lite unit:
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The premium protection option for all of your home electronics you currently own or buy in the future: satellite, home theatre, computer, Web TV, cable modem, PC TV, TV/VCR, stereo, DVD and more! Isobar's exclusive filter banks prevent noise contamination between connected equipment, eliminating static, video "snow," computer lock-ups and data errors. Two sets of coaxial connectors protect both cable/antenna lines and satellite receiver dish feeds simultaneously. Six outlets protect all of your home entertainment equipment. One-line protection stops surges on a "pay-per-view," phone or modem/fax line. 3 diagnostic indicators that alert you to line condition and if protection is present. Absorbs surge energy up to 2,850 joules. Features the $50,000 Ultimate Lifetime Insurance for surge related damage to unit and connected equipment. UL listed.
ThA tRiXtA : Also, I am looknig at building a new house and incorpoerating a whole room just for home theatre into it... any suggestions on any topics for a dedicated room?
This deserves an entire thread just for itself. *I'm not sure that here in the electronics section is quite the right place, but none of the other forums quite jump out at me either. <STAFF??> *
There are many factors, starting with your intended use- dedicated or dual use (however defined, often wives have ideas that aren't quite in sync with the demands of HT/music- mine wanted to know why my listening chair couldn't be pushed to a side wall (that is at right angles to the speakers )
What kind of budget are you looking at, both for special purpose modification and your equipment. *How about resale value- if a room gets too dedicated, then it limits the people who might be interested in it, and if you sell the house in 3-5 years, you won't come close to recouping your investment.
And so forth.... *One suggestion, get the 'Master Handbook of Acoustics' by Everest. *It's written so that you don't have to be an engineer to understand it, and it'll give you the background to make sensible acoustical decisions. *Parts Express sells it, if you're ordering from them, as does Amazon.
Anyhow, *we really should move this to it's own thread in a more appropriate forum, as it's a great topic. *
So you think the monster filter is just as good as the isobar tripplite thingy, but just really really expensive?
I am truly wondering if anyone has some negative comments about it affecting sound quality or anything else. I read on some reviews about other monster units like this one that it cuts high frequencies or accentuates lower ones. Do these units negatively affect anything is my major concern. I have not been able to find a review for this specific unit.
As for the home theatre room, it will be strictly dedicated to home theatre / music, but about 90 % home theatre. At any rate it won't be dual use, just to house the system.
There will be no interference from the wife either, she loves this stuff just as much as I (VERY LUCKY!) So I can mold the room as I please.
I will not be reselling this house, this is why I want to do this right the first time... So I don't care about resale value.
As for the budget, is not unlimited, but as I said above, I want to do this right, so please everybody don't leave any stone unturned and we will see what we can do...
I am looking for any tips, hints or anything no matter how small or big.
Forexample I am wondering, for the seating position, what is the ideal couch position? Halfway in between the front wall and rear wall? 1/3rd of the room length from the rear wall?
Also I am still desiring to know what this gentlemen was referring to: "what is "ground contamination" and what is an MOV and why / how do they wear out?"
). It’s a little spendy at $300, but it protects the whole circuit, it filters EMI/RFI, I don’t have to use bulky plug strips in the family room, and there are no MOVs to wear out (which they do over time). They also make versions that look more like power strips.
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