Blu-ray & HD DVD - Who Has the Upper Hand?

[Clint DeBoer]

Now that Samsung's new Blu-ray player the BD-P1000 has been out, the reviews are out on the web-o-sphere for both first strikes in the latest format war. Toshiba fired the first salvo with the HD-A1 HD DVD player hitting the market at half the price of the first Blu-ray player. According to a market research firm called iSuppli Toshiba is taking a tactical loss on its player - to the tune of $200 per unit. Being first to market and being sold at a lower cost provides an obvious advantage, but is it the better unit?

[Read the Editorial]

[BMXTRIX]

I simply believe that far to many items are overlooked in almost every review or statement that is made.

1. Were both formats released to early?

Well, if you care about audio, then definitely yes, but both players appear to have a few bugs that could have been worked out.

2. Is the Samsung a POS and the Toshiba far better?

I would say that the Samsung isn't as good as the Toshiba, but the Toshiba is being sold for a straight out loss. Not $200 - but far more than that as it appears parts may run nearly $700 alone, then they are sold to stores closer to $350 or so! That doesn't include build labor, or shipping, etc. Toshiba is taking a huge hit on their player to get them out to as many people as possible. The Samsung is more likley $500 in HW sold at a profit - which most companies would consider the 'proper' way to sell product. Yes, the Toshiba is a deal.

3. Is MPEG2 lousy?

No! Geez, how is it even possible to link to people who would ever make such a horrendous claim! Anyone making the statement that Blu-ray looks poor because of MPEG2 by itself, is mistaken, and poorly informed. MPEG2 is used for OTA HD and is used with DVD. The bottom line is that MPEG2, when used properly looks phenomenal. But, 1080p + 25GB + MPEG2 simply does not work on a two hour movie. 50GB is required if MPE2 is to be used. The Blu-ray Demo disc that includes AVC, VC-1, and MPEG2 show that MPEG2 can be every bit as phenomenal as long as the space is there to use it. Of course, proper encoding is required. I would be just as happy to see AVC or VC-1 in use - which, guess what!?! Blu-ray happily supports.

4. Did Blu-ray fall flat on it's face?

Geez, in some ways yes. On the other hand, I hear that the player works pretty well and the remote is decent and it doesn't lock up nearly as much as the Toshiba does. But, the titles look poor. In a year, when (if) new codecs/dual layer discs are used, the image will look every bit as good as HD-DVD, and the player still won't lock up and the remote will still work. It just is so early to be making 'final' judgements or statements it seems.

5. Is HD-DVD going to win the format war?

Come on, it's way to early to tell! Any statements made about anything related to the format war and winners or losers seems utterly ridiculous to me. HD video is NOT HD audio. People actually are buying HD displays and many know that HDMI is what they should be using. But, HD-DVD continues to only have one main hardware manufacturer at this time. They also don't have nearly the studio support that Blu-ray does. Blu-ray has a lot more going for it... but they clearly aren't ready for prime time yet. If it takes 3-4 months for Blu-ray to get a bit more up to speed and come out with dual layer discs or start using VC-1/AVC on their titles, then I will wonder what HD-DVD will have as an advantage - beyond price of the player. If Blu-ray continues to falter, without releasing more players from the major players (Panny, Sony, Pioneer, etc.) and can't get their CODECs/discs figured out, then the studios may start really looking towards releasing HD movies in the HD-DVD format.

But, with less than ONE month under their belt, it seems incredibly premature to judge Blu-ray. With just a few months, HD-DVD is no more simple to make a judgement on. I believe strongly that if HD-DVD had the industry and studio support that Blu-ray has, then this would be a slam dunk battle. But, without that, HD-DVD still has a LONG way to go and needs a lot more than a lousy CODEC to stand much of a chance. Lower pricing really only goes so far - especially if places like Best Buy, Circuit City, and other stores are specifically pushing Blu-ray over HD-DVD.

Does HD-DVD have the upper hand? When it has more studios, more manufacturer support, and really is delivering movies from all those backers - then yes. Until then, they just have a bit of an advantage right now.

I'm not about to touch the format war going on - except for PS3 which some people think won't matter at all... Well, that is yet to be known as it seems to be a pretty safe purchase for those interested who want some assurance.

[ned]

We can argue again and again. This editorial is no diferrent than the first. Reporting base on second hand information, incorrect information and lack of understanding of the technology in general.

I still don't understand why such a repected website keep posting unfactual and misleading article. There are articles with positive reviews but they have never been mentioned.

[BMXTRIX]

I think the 'positive' reviews are almost as bad as the negative ones quite often. It is just WAY to early to make almost anything but 'first impression' statements. Which should be clearly titled FIRST IMPRESSION - MEANS NOTHING. HD-DVD doesn't have the backing it needs (yet), Blu-ray isn't using the technology it should be using (yet) and both are brand new... and realistically both are overpriced for the masses.

I would want to see the numbers AFTER this holiday season before I would be willing to even contemplate make a serious statement about the format war. Everything until then is just pure speculation. Format shot in foot? No. Blu-ray lousy? No. HD-DVD to buggy? No. PS3 meaningless? No. It just is a bunch of unknowns.

[Clint DeBoer]

Couple things to note:

1) This is an editorial
2) MPEG-2, while it can be beautiful is held back on BD because you have to fit the length of the movie on the 25GB disc. This is the reason for reports of macroblocking, etc... Also, larger resolution = different compression issues. This isn't DVD.
3) Despite these blunt articles, we don't want the formats to fail.
4) I am scheduled to review the new Samsung BD player as soon as they can ship it to me (paperwork has gone through). At this point there will be an honest review - delivering the first hand perspective that has been lacking.
5) I honestly don't care which format is better of "wins". I just wish the industry had been smart and taken a closer look at the past. High Definition DVD does not seem to be a replacement (now or in the near future) for DVD. It is not being marketed that way and it is not being handled that way by manufacturers or the studios.
6) Ned admitted we're respected.

So far these editorials have been observations - not reviews, so the lack of a player in hand isn't really relevant. The first editorial (by me) was more a statement of the failure of the process to impress and result in quicker user adoption. The second article is a quick assembly of initial feedback and issues. There is some good news, but it's drowning in a sea of disappointment and apparent user-apathy.

Stay tuned. I will be thorough and detailed when I get into the Samsung unit (arrives either the 30th or the 5th).

[racquetman]

From what I've read, both camps have gotten off to a rocky start. That's to be expected in my opinion. I just wanted to chime in on what I've read:

1) The Toshiba HD-DVD player performs much better after you download the firmware update.

2) The Samsung Blu-ray player performs much better with the component video cables being used as opposed to the HDMI connection. The poor picture quality that is being blamed on MPEG-2 encoding may in fact be because of the HDMI interface (read the article at thedigitalbits.com - they did some side by side testing with a Pioneer player that hasn't been released yet, and found that the Samsung player had HDMI issues that the Pioneer model didn't have).

Anyway, just a couple things to keep in mind at the moment.

[Sheep]

I love how the article didn't even accomplish its goal. Which has the upper hand?

All that babbling and he couldn't even pick one. He gave 2 senarios and left us with that. I wish people didn't beat around the bush and actually took a stance.

SheepStar (Against abortion, for killing babies [It's a joke!])

[ned]

Originally Posted by Clint DeBoer

4) I am scheduled to review the new Samsung BD player as soon as they can ship it to me (paperwork has gone through).

Well then you'll probably be disappointed, no doubt. If you can get a hand on the Toshiba that'll be great.

[ned]

Originally Posted by Clint DeBoer

Couple things to note:

1) This is an editorial.

That's the problem as it shows the bias of this site against HiDef DVD.

[Wayde Robson]

Honestly, I don't have an opinion about which is better. I said the smart money is on wait and see. I think it's the only way to go at this point.

Who has the upper hand? It's a rhetorical question.

The purpose of this editorial was to point out the second hand "word on the street" as I've seen, read and heard echoed through message boards and blogs I haunt to which I included links to the source.

This wasn’t supposed to be a politically correct encyclopedia. Chances are I don’t share your personal mission to convince the world that X is best. But since this is an interactive forum, you’re free to express yourself.

I don't get why people are picking sides like a bunch of rabid soccer moms. Sony and Toshiba are indifferent corporations vying for market space on the backs of early adopters. We’re all victims of their greed. By virtue of visiting this site you’ve declared you’re in the upper percentage of informed consumers. Sony and Toshiba are looking to take advantage of us, not the average Joe visiting Best Buy and getting confused.

So, please relax.

Have another coffee.

Smoke another cigarette.

Let’s keep it fun.