Automatic Voltage Stabilizers???

kdiddy · Sep 2, 2005

Does anyone currently use the Monster AVS2000 or the likes of? I have been hearing two very different views on these pieces. One side says if you use something like this you will not get the most out of a high current amp(basically limiting the power it can put out), the other side says since it stabilizes the power it gets just as much as it needs at all times.

I tried a search on voltage regulators/stabilizers and didnt find what I was looking for. Tons of articles about line conditioners, but thats not what I'm needing. Anyone with any insight, please chime in. Thanks

brian32672 · Sep 2, 2005

I think WndrBrd3 does, but I'm not 100% sure. I think, he has commented on it before.
PM him, here is a link straight to his profile.
http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/member.php?u=9463

ht_addict · Sep 2, 2005

kdiddy said:
Does anyone currently use the Monster AVS2000 or the likes of? I have been hearing two very different views on these pieces. One side says if you use something like this you will not get the most out of a high current amp(basically limiting the power it can put out), the other side says since it stabilizes the power it gets just as much as it needs at all times.

I tried a search on voltage regulators/stabilizers and didnt find what I was looking for. Tons of articles about line conditioners, but thats not what I'm needing. Anyone with any insight, please chime in. Thanks

I own the Monster AVS 2000 and what it does is either add back or take away voltage so your equipment see's 120v +/- 1%. Its power output is 1800watts(120v x 15A) max continuous, same as what comes out off your wall socket. So I can't see where people can say it is current limiting. Anything else you'd like to know?

mtrycrafts · Sep 2, 2005

kdiddy said:
Does anyone currently use the Monster AVS2000 or the likes of? I have been hearing two very different views on these pieces. One side says if you use something like this you will not get the most out of a high current amp(basically limiting the power it can put out), the other side says since it stabilizes the power it gets just as much as it needs at all times.

I tried a search on voltage regulators/stabilizers and didnt find what I was looking for. Tons of articles about line conditioners, but thats not what I'm needing. Anyone with any insight, please chime in. Thanks

Do you know if your power has unacceptable variations in line voltage? A call to the power company is in order.

Otherwise, what you may need is a surge protector.

MBauer · Sep 3, 2005

This may (or may not) help?

kdiddy said:
Does anyone currently use the Monster AVS2000 or the likes of? I have been hearing two very different views on these pieces. One side says if you use something like this you will not get the most out of a high current amp(basically limiting the power it can put out), the other side says since it stabilizes the power it gets just as much as it needs at all times.

I tried a search on voltage regulators/stabilizers and didnt find what I was looking for. Tons of articles about line conditioners, but thats not what I'm needing. Anyone with any insight, please chime in. Thanks

What is the condition/problem you are trying to overcome? If you are having extreme voltage swings it has already been suggested that you contact the power company. Since you are looking at a product that lists at nearly 1700 dollars it sounds like you are prepared to make a significant investment.

You can begin this in several different ways:

What is the equipment you have or are planning to acquire and what are the power requirements? Then it is a simple matter to match the power needed to the power available.

You can also begin with electrical service. How much caapcity does your panel provide? This usually ranges from 100 amps to 200 amps in a residence. I think 150 amp services are becoming the norm in new construction, but I am not a home builder or electrician. The service panel, and the way power is run to the receptacle is really the limitation on amperage. Usually a 15 amp circuit is what you will have available to you in a room.

Dedicated power. Do you have or plan to have a dedicated line(s) from your panel to your electronic equipment? That might be a better investment than a power conditioner?

If you are getting surges, a surge protector (combined with a UPS) might be the best investment. One thing that these "power conditioners" often have are in-line filters to remove spurious signals from the lines you are using. There are even power cords that include in-line filters that may be of interest. A UPS will provide some protection from variations in voltage

As to expensive power cords, receptacles and the like, I am sceptical as to their value. As an electrical engineer I have never been able to really understand how they could offer much help? I have to look at the entire power grid at least from a local substation to the home and when I do so I see miles and miles of wire that forms the entire elctrical circuit, so the impact of a few feet of cord from a receptacle to the equipment is difficult to understand electrically.

mtrycrafts · Sep 3, 2005

MBauer said:
As to expensive power cords, receptacles and the like, I am sceptical as to their value. As an electrical engineer I have never been able to really understand how they could offer much help? .

Ah, you need powers beyond understanding

You need faith and belief

ht_addict · Sep 3, 2005

MBauer said:
What is the condition/problem you are trying to overcome? If you are having extreme voltage swings it has already been suggested that you contact the power company. Since you are looking at a product that lists at nearly 1700 dollars it sounds like you are prepared to make a significant investment.

You can begin this in several different ways:

What is the equipment you have or are planning to acquire and what are the power requirements? Then it is a simple matter to match the power needed to the power available.

You can also begin with electrical service. How much caapcity does your panel provide? This usually ranges from 100 amps to 200 amps in a residence. I think 150 amp services are becoming the norm in new construction, but I am not a home builder or electrician. The service panel, and the way power is run to the receptacle is really the limitation on amperage. Usually a 15 amp circuit is what you will have available to you in a room.

Dedicated power. Do you have or plan to have a dedicated line(s) from your panel to your electronic equipment? That might be a better investment than a power conditioner?

If you are getting surges, a surge protector (combined with a UPS) might be the best investment. One thing that these "power conditioners" often have are in-line filters to remove spurious signals from the lines you are using. There are even power cords that include in-line filters that may be of interest. A UPS will provide some protection from variations in voltage

As to expensive power cords, receptacles and the like, I am sceptical as to their value. As an electrical engineer I have never been able to really understand how they could offer much help? I have to look at the entire power grid at least from a local substation to the home and when I do so I see miles and miles of wire that forms the entire elctrical circuit, so the impact of a few feet of cord from a receptacle to the equipment is difficult to understand electrically.

You could call your local utility a call but they're more than likely going to tell you everything is okay. You could take a multimeter and plug it into your outlet and meaure the voltage coming out of the socket throughout the day and while you use your equipment. You maybe suprised at the reading you get. With my AVS2000 I have seen it add back 1-2volts, most of the time 7-9v, all the way upto 15volts during the middle off this summer. Due to the heat waves we've been having here in Ontario, the powers that be who control the powergrid, knocked the voltage down 5% to maintain stability. So even before it gets to me the voltage leaving the power plants is only at 114v. Then you have the demand put on the grid by the neighbours and I who use AC, fans, lights, etc. They are expensive units, and you can get cheaper ones from Tripplite and Belkin PureAV, so which ever way you go, I honestly feel they are an important part of a hometheater. I would also make sure you have a decent power conditioner to go with it.

kdiddy · Sep 3, 2005

MBauer said:
What is the condition/problem you are trying to overcome? If you are having extreme voltage swings it has already been suggested that you contact the power company. Since you are looking at a product that lists at nearly 1700 dollars it sounds like you are prepared to make a significant investment.

You can begin this in several different ways:

What is the equipment you have or are planning to acquire and what are the power requirements? Then it is a simple matter to match the power needed to the power available.

You can also begin with electrical service. How much caapcity does your panel provide? This usually ranges from 100 amps to 200 amps in a residence. I think 150 amp services are becoming the norm in new construction, but I am not a home builder or electrician. The service panel, and the way power is run to the receptacle is really the limitation on amperage. Usually a 15 amp circuit is what you will have available to you in a room.

Dedicated power. Do you have or plan to have a dedicated line(s) from your panel to your electronic equipment? That might be a better investment than a power conditioner?

If you are getting surges, a surge protector (combined with a UPS) might be the best investment. One thing that these "power conditioners" often have are in-line filters to remove spurious signals from the lines you are using. There are even power cords that include in-line filters that may be of interest. A UPS will provide some protection from variations in voltage

As to expensive power cords, receptacles and the like, I am sceptical as to their value. As an electrical engineer I have never been able to really understand how they could offer much help? I have to look at the entire power grid at least from a local substation to the home and when I do so I see miles and miles of wire that forms the entire elctrical circuit, so the impact of a few feet of cord from a receptacle to the equipment is difficult to understand electrically.

Well actually I haven't had any issues with any of my other set ups, but I'm taking a major leap foward with my next set up and I just want to make sure I dont have any weak links. I was planning on running the AVS along with two of monsters higher end power centers to power: New Mits Diamond series 62"(if I settle on it), Aragon preamp w/ 5 channel amp, Denon 3910,
Key digital HDMI 4x1 scaler/switcher/processor, Viadj, Martin Logan ESLs(three up front will need power), PS3(when released), Sony DVR/cable box and hopefully a Kaleidescape system. All of the Elan gear will be located in a closet behind the livingroom system, running off a different circuit. But as you can see, my living room set up will take up lots of outlets, and Im just trying to take care of any issues before they have a chance to happen.

mtrycrafts · Sep 3, 2005

kdiddy said:
Well actually I haven't had any issues with any of my other set ups, but I'm taking a major leap foward with my next set up and I just want to make sure I dont have any weak links. I was planning on running the AVS along with two of monsters higher end power centers to power: New Mits Diamond series 62"(if I settle on it), Aragon preamp w/ 5 channel amp, Denon 3910,
Key digital HDMI 4x1 scaler/switcher/processor, Viadj, Martin Logan ESLs(three up front will need power), PS3(when released), Sony DVR/cable box and hopefully a Kaleidescape system. All of the Elan gear will be located in a closet behind the livingroom system, running off a different circuit. But as you can see, my living room set up will take up lots of outlets, and Im just trying to take care of any issues before they have a chance to happen.

Ah, possibly the tail wagging the dog?

A solution looking for a problem

You can always come back after you have everything set up. Just make sure you have ample outlet capacity and circuits to handle them. Don't put everything on one breaker, not a 15A. Perhaps you have a 20A as you should have?

ht_addict · Sep 4, 2005

mtrycrafts said:
Ah, possibly the tail wagging the dog?
A solution looking for a problem

You can always come back after you have everything set up. Just make sure you have ample outlet capacity and circuits to handle them. Don't put everything on one breaker, not a 15A. Perhaps you have a 20A as you should have?

No need to have a 20A circuit. Have you ever measured to total amperage your setup uses? At most my setup uses 3-3.5A total draw while watching am movie.

9f9c7z · Sep 4, 2005

ht_addict said:
... You could take a multimeter and plug it into your outlet and meaure the voltage coming out of the socket throughout the day and while you use your equipment. ...

If you do this you will want to use a meter that is either specifically for measuring AC voltage or a multimeter designed with an RMS function for measurig AC. If you don’t, you may read the voltage somewhere above 130+vac but everything is really ok, actually within the tolerances for 120v.

As far as protecting equipment, the rack mount power distribution critters often have everything you need with 8 or 9 outlets, 15amps, if you are ok with having rack mount ears on a piece of equipment. Companies that sell racks often sell power dist modules to protect who-knows-what get plugged into it. They protect against spikes/surges and EMI. And they aren’t playing to the consumer market w/hype so their stuff is priced more reasonably.

Fwiw, worldwide safety standards require anything that uses 120vac to function safely at +/- 10% of that voltage, in the range of 108v to 132vac. However, if your equipment is not approved (UL, Apex, TUV, etc) then you are on your own as to its safe operating voltage range. I forget exactly what it is but the power company has a tighter range for their allowable line voltage, like 3% or 7% max swing from 120v.

MBauer · Sep 6, 2005

In that case

kdiddy said:
Well actually I haven't had any issues with any of my other set ups, but I'm taking a major leap foward with my next set up and I just want to make sure I dont have any weak links. I was planning on running the AVS along with two of monsters higher end power centers to power: New Mits Diamond series 62"(if I settle on it), Aragon preamp w/ 5 channel amp, Denon 3910,
Key digital HDMI 4x1 scaler/switcher/processor, Viadj, Martin Logan ESLs(three up front will need power), PS3(when released), Sony DVR/cable box and hopefully a Kaleidescape system. All of the Elan gear will be located in a closet behind the livingroom system, running off a different circuit. But as you can see, my living room set up will take up lots of outlets, and Im just trying to take care of any issues before they have a chance to happen.

Sounds like excellent planning to me. How about running dedicated power from your houses distribution panel to your equipment and making sure you have a common ground with all your inputs, i.e., cable, satellite, etc. Also a whole house surge protector. You could do all that for far less than the unit you described and have money left over for a good UPS with voltage regulation, etc

mtrycrafts · Sep 6, 2005

ht_addict said:
No need to have a 20A circuit. Have you ever measured to total amperage your setup uses? At most my setup uses 3-3.5A total draw while watching am movie.

How much does your rear projector draw? Did you measure your total current draw? Maybe he has more? And when th esub is peaking, his opther speakers getting near it, maybe it is well more than 3A? My computer by itself is 150 Watts, not counting the screen. Yes, I did measure it accurately.

ht_addict · Sep 6, 2005

mtrycrafts said:
How much does your rear projector draw? Did you measure your total current draw? Maybe he has more? And when th esub is peaking, his opther speakers getting near it, maybe it is well more than 3A? My computer by itself is 150 Watts, not counting the screen. Yes, I did measure it accurately.

Plugged into my AVS2000 is:

HTPS7000 Balanced Power conditioner
47" Rear Projection TV
NAD T773
Denon 2900
HiDef Cable Box
2 Blue Circle Noise Hounds
Paradigm PW2100(tried it too see what total draw was)

With or without the sub plugged in total draw never went over 4A. Before the NAD I had a Yamaha RX-V1400/Rotel RMB-1095(5x200W) and then a 56TXi/NAD S250(5x125w) and still with either setup never went over 4A total draw when watching a movie. You would either have too have a ton of gear plugged in or very inefficient(Class A) amp to draw much more.

kdiddy · Sep 7, 2005

MBauer said:
Sounds like excellent planning to me. How about running dedicated power from your houses distribution panel to your equipment and making sure you have a common ground with all your inputs, i.e., cable, satellite, etc. Also a whole house surge protector. You could do all that for far less than the unit you described and have money left over for a good UPS with voltage regulation, etc

Yes, the idea of running a dedicated line has been presented to me a coupke times, and that is probably the route I will go. As far as the money spent on the Monster equipment, I work for an authorized dealer, so there really is no cheaper alternative. Also, i try to follow the "own what you sell" rule when I can. I may stray from that with my preamp/amp purchase, unless I go with Krell.

Anyways, it is ok to have a couple dedicated lines right? I would like to have one for my livingroom set which was described earlier, one for my house audio & communications equipment, and one for my dedicated theater room (which is still in the design phase, I haven't decided on anything yet, I like the JBL performance stuff we have, but I'd rather have the Klipsch THX series stuff for movies only, plus I'm waiting on some of the new projectors). I will also have a small set up in the bedroom, but I shouldnt need anything special in there, I'll be using a simple receiver, a smaller sub and probably some in-ceiling speakers, maybe some Artison Portraits.

I'm guessing my electric bill will have more numbers than the Powerball, haha.

WndrBr3d · Sep 9, 2005

There is a debate on the usefulness of the AVS2000 and items of its likes.

All modern electronics run off DC power. The rectifiers in these electronics convert the incoming AC to DC. High current rectifiers use what’s called a reservoir capacitor, which is used to deliver a smoother DC signal. This also supplies extra current to the rectifier, which normally can compensate on the DC end for voltage drops.

Depending on the size of the reservoir capacitor (> 10,000uF), it should be able to keep the DC current and wave stable. An example of this is when the power blinks on/off. Some of your components might not COMPLETELY lose power. This is because the capacitors in the power supplies were able to carry the load enough so to keep the unit 'brown' instead of off.

Normally your AC should never drop below 115v unless there's some serious pull on the line or your house is wired funny. Even WITH your system in use, the line should still stay above 110v.

How mandatory is the AVS2000? Eh... you could find alternative solutions that are much cheaper that don’t bear the monster label. You could just pick up a power conditioner and plug it into a APC Line-R Automatic Voltage Regulator. Only $59 and performs the exact same task of stepping up or stepping down incoming line voltage. In fact, you could pick up about ten of these babies and still be 50% cheaper than the Monster AVS2000.

I think for now I'll just stick with the Power Conditioner and be happy with that.

Automatic Voltage Stabilizers???

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