Need a rec for Conference room/presentation projector (about or under $3000)

Our office main Conference room Toshiba TDP-T420 DLP Projector seems to be on it's last days. Replacement lamps are hard to get but even when we do they don't seem to be as bright as original one.
That in mind, I'm looking for suggestions for replacement model.
We have 4:3 silver or gray Steward screen and projector must be able to short-throw similar to T420 (Throw Ratio 1.62 ~ 1.95:1)
I don't know it's a too tall of the order, but the room is very well illuminated and requirement is the image projected must be very bright and have high contrast.

High Resolution isn't required - 1024x768 is sufficient.

What's the screen size and rough throw distance?

AVRat said:

What's the screen size and rough throw distance?

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100" 4:3 Screen and about 11' 4" throw distance

Thinking Sony VPL FX35 :
http://www.cdw.com/shop/products/default.aspx?EDC=2261196

and: Hitachi CP X5021N
Opinions?

bump . . . bumpy bump bump

Just cut to the chase and PM BMXTRIX already.

I would NOT EVER buy or recommend a Sony projector. They simply have lousy customer service and are a complete nightmare of a company to deal with if and when you have issues. They are far to quick to dump their product lines and do not have enough focus on their projectors, especially commercial projectors to have a serious stake in the products.

That said, I plugged in your info at Projector Central and this was the list returned...
http://www.projectorcentral.com/projectors.cfm?g=1&hide=0&st=1&mfg=&p=700&p=3500&w=&r=&br=2500&br=50000&ll=&t=&db=&dt=1&c=&ar=4:3&dvi=2&td=11.5&i=d&is=100&sort=pop&sz=15

My requirements are that it be LCD so you don't run into issues with RBE, that it have at least one digital input, so you are covered with the digital sunset, that the price be under $3,500, which is pretty easy, and that it have at least 2,500 lumens.

Still... 56 results.

We peak out at about 5,000 lumens from this group, and from that list, I think the Sanyo models are the most signifcant quality leader in the bunch.

While not typically known for a lot of quality product, Sanyo is a world class leader when it comes to business projectors with models ranging from several hundred dollars to models running $50,000+. They run the full spectrum, and this model should not only make you happy, but should make you happy for years to come:
http://www.projectorcentral.com/Sanyo-PLC-XM100L.htm

It looks like it ships with the LNS-20 which is a standard lens, and will hit a 100" diagonal size from between 10'11" to 18'9"... Out of the box, you will get a rated 144 lumens on screen. I think that is more than you should realistically expect, but I can tell you that it will be stunning in a way you have not experienced in a long time.

The Toshiba, with only being a couple of years old and with 4,000 lumens was no slouch, but clearly, if you aren't getting replacement parts properly, then you are having headaches that you should not be dealing with so soon as projectors SHOULD last 5-7 years.

Sanyo has a 4,500 lumen model which is a fair bit cheaper which is definitely worth considering as well...
http://www.projectorcentral.com/Sanyo-PLC-XU116.htm

But, the other model is a SIGNIFICANT step up in overall build quality with things such as interchangable lenses and lens shift.

If I were really looking for some nice features in a very reliable manufacturer, then I might go with the Panasonic over the cheaper Sanyo...
http://www.projectorcentral.com/Panasonic-PT-F300U.htm

Lens shift, and a three year warranty, 4,000 lumens, and $2,130. Not to shabby.

Thx a lot BMXTRIX,
Couple of questions: Should I pay attention to spec'd Contrast ratios?
is spec'd 2000:1 is much better than other projector with 1000:1 ratio ??

It seems some of big issues resulted from lack of contrast.

2) Sanyo PLC-XM100L seems like a very strong choice, however does it require any additional lens to work in my environment or the included lens would do??
(I guess kind of kit lens on the dslr - they ok, but there are much better ones)

@jostenmeat - yes, I knew BMX is the in-house god of projectors, but I thought I should fish for opinions and second this post might be useful for someone else

2) Sanyo PLC-XM100L seems like a very strong choice, however does it require any additional lens to work in my environment or the included lens would do??
(I guess kind of kit lens on the dslr - they ok, but there are much better ones)

Click to expand...

Strike that question
Sorry, I guess it was a bit late writing this yesterday - I just re-read your post.

Contrast ratio is extremely important in the home theater environment. What most people don't know, and truly can't fathom, is that a SINGLE CANDLE when lit in a room, can drop a contrast ratio of 5,000:1 to less than 50:1.

Most of contrast ratio occurs through black, and in a conference room, with typical lighting, you actually are trying to achieve about a 20:1 contrast ratio for solid quality viewing. This is achieved by putting lumens on screen, not by having a higher contrast ratio listed for the projector.

This is why the really bright conference room projectors tend to have a much lower contrast ratio than the less bright home theater projectors.

So, it is all about lumens and build quality. This is where, for whatever reason, Sanyo has managed to do a heck of a job. Christie and Eiki both OEM from Sanyo for many projectors they use. Eiki being more 'low level' while Christie being a 'upper class' brand. Sanyo just has their stuff together for business projectors.

If I were to walk into your room, I would likely recommend the XM100L right off. It's potentially brighter than you need, but this is just not a bad thing in the business world.

I recently installed a 6,000 lumen 16:9 1080p projector in a conference room on a 100" screen. It was (truly) awesome.
http://www.digitalprojection.com/BrowseProjectors/SeriesList/ProjectorList/ProjectorDetail/tabid/87/ProjectorId/189/MarketTypeId/10/Default.aspx

Of course, that's more like a $15,000+ projector.

Thanks a lot BMX, the info you provide is invaluable.
As you correctly mentioned - the conference room is very well lid and unfortunately turning off the lights is not an option. Also - I don't think there is such thing as too bright in these price-range and room conditions

While I have your attention I'd like to check with you, regarding two more PJs in my price range:
Sanyo PLC-XTC50AL - Looks very similar in specs to PLC-XM100, but has dual lamps - Are there any other compelling reason to pick it over xm100 ?
My other find is :
Epson PowerLite 4300 - a bit Brighter over Sanyo ...
AHers frequently recommend Epsons for home usage and they get highest marks on the bench at their price point....

The PLC-XT50L is 24/7 usage rated. The dual lamp is part of this cost, but the promise of a projector with 24/7 usage reliability, is another part. Likely better fans, etc. are in there to keep the projector running properly.

http://www.projectorcentral.com/Sanyo-PLC-XTC50L.htm

Since it was well over $3,000, I didn't even consider it.

The Epson...
http://www.projectorcentral.com/Epson-PowerLite_4300.htm

Isn't a bad unit for sure, but has one HUGE GLARING ISSUE!

It has no digital input!

With the analog sunset quickly approaching, you will be seeing more and more PCs shipping with nothing but digital outputs. Heck, Microsoft has worked on HDCP regulating their software. More and more, you will see laptops show up which only offer a HDMI or Display Port connection, with no provision to take that video to analog.

So, I would not recommend that projector on that grounds.

The LCD chip used inside the Sanyo projector is made by Epson, and I do highly regard Epson as a company, but anyone recommending the $3,000 Epson over the similarly bright, but DVI equipped Sanyo I would call crazy. With a smile of course.

Epson needs to get the 4300 updated with a HDMI, DVI, or Display Port connection, then I would definitely recommend it.

Also worth noting...

I generally only recommend widescreen projectors at this point.

From Epson, worth considering, but higher than the price you wanted and, at best, a tiny step ahead of the Sanyo (maybe)..
http://www.projectorcentral.com/Epson-PowerLite_Pro_G5950NL.htm

I would still go with the Sanyo.

BoredSysAdmin said:

@jostenmeat - yes, I knew BMX is the in-house god of projectors, but I thought I should fish for opinions and second this post might be useful for someone else

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Yes, understood. I guess I meant to PM him to see this thread. What I sometimes do, so that it's useful for others, but that I still get his attention, is to simply put his handle in my thread title!

Over 20% of the threads I've started in the PJ forum have BMX or BMXTRIX in the title. That way, there is no excuse for him to not reply.

If you were talking about HT projectors, I'd probably have stuff to say. Heck, even with entry level conference PJs, I might* have something to say (prolly not though). As far as $3k conference PJs . . . uhhhh . . .

I'm glad you're getting the good help now though!

BMXTRIX said:

The PLC-XT50L is 24/7 usage rated. The dual lamp is part of this cost, but the promise of a projector with 24/7 usage reliability, is another part. Likely better fans, etc. are in there to keep the projector running properly.

http://www.projectorcentral.com/Sanyo-PLC-XTC50L.htm

Since it was well over $3,000, I didn't even consider it.

Click to expand...

I'm asking about it since:
A) B&H has it for $2,849.95
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?Ntt=PLC-XTC50AL&N=0&InitialSearch=yes
B) Wasn't aware of 24/7 premise, but this pj could easy have 6 hours daily usage - 5 days a week - full brightness is required by users.
Is this a good deal ?

BMXTRIX said:

The Epson...
http://www.projectorcentral.com/Epson-PowerLite_4300.htm

Isn't a bad unit for sure, but has one HUGE GLARING ISSUE!

It has no digital input!

With the analog sunset quickly approaching, you will be seeing more and more PCs shipping with nothing but digital outputs. Heck, Microsoft has worked on HDCP regulating their software. More and more, you will see laptops show up which only offer a HDMI or Display Port connection, with no provision to take that video to analog.

So, I would not recommend that projector on that grounds.

The LCD chip used inside the Sanyo projector is made by Epson, and I do highly regard Epson as a company, but anyone recommending the $3,000 Epson over the similarly bright, but DVI equipped Sanyo I would call crazy. With a smile of course.

Epson needs to get the 4300 updated with a HDMI, DVI, or Display Port connection, then I would definitely recommend it.

Also worth noting...

I generally only recommend widescreen projectors at this point.

From Epson, worth considering, but higher than the price you wanted and, at best, a tiny step ahead of the Sanyo (maybe)..
http://www.projectorcentral.com/Epson-PowerLite_Pro_G5950NL.htm

I would still go with the Sanyo.

Click to expand...

I think that answers my questions. I didn't really noticed the lack of digital inputs since the laptop has vga port currently and due to integrated/control equipment (mostly AMX stuff) we'd have to keep using laptops with vga anyhow.
Widescreens are nice, but the chance of changing electric in-ceiling (tensioned) screen in the main conference are very slim...

I guess besides performance and required throw-image lens, there is one other need - company proven overtime to provide OEM lamp replacements for older units... I assume based on your strong rec that Sanyo is such company.

Thanks a lot !

BoredSysAdmin said:

I'm asking about it since:
A) B&H has it for $2,849.95
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?Ntt=PLC-XTC50AL&N=0&InitialSearch=yes
B) Wasn't aware of 24/7 premise, but this pj could easy have 6 hours daily usage - 5 days a week - full brightness is required by users.
Is this a good deal ?

Click to expand...

Your usage is typical for most projectors, and doesn't really require 24/7 rating, but the rating certainly doesn't hurt.

To your FIRST question - While it is not at ALL clear from the website, I'm not sure that the model linked comes with a lens. I don't have my Sanyo price sheet in front of me, so I can't be sure... Heck, I just went on our servers remotely and MY list shows that this model does NOT ship with a lens. If you can get it from B&H for that price WITH a standard lens, then I think I would go that route for that price. But, I think you would have to lay out some extra cash for their 'standard' zoom lens.

It should be noted that according to the Projector Calculator at Projector Central, the LNS-S11 standard zoom lens, to hit a 100" diagonal, can only put the projector as close as 11'8" - so you may need to find a way to move the projector back a few inches if you go this route.

Strangely, they don't seem to have a lens which allows you to hit 100" diagonal from 11'4".

BoredSysAdmin said:

I think that answers my questions. I didn't really noticed the lack of digital inputs since the laptop has vga port currently and due to integrated/control equipment (mostly AMX stuff) we'd have to keep using laptops with vga anyhow.

Click to expand...

Let me throw out there that AMX has no limitation at all on your ability to add a HDMI or DVI or DisplayPort connection to your wall, and a simple programming update and a bit of hardware added (really easy!) is all you need, and may want/need to add in a year or so.

BoredSysAdmin said:

Widescreens are nice, but the chance of changing electric in-ceiling (tensioned) screen in the main conference are very slim...

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Noted, but once again, you may want to also consider the widescreen options now as you are NOT buying any laptop anytime soon which isn't widescreen. So, perhaps in a year you may wish you had that widescreen projector. Still, I know what you are talking about.

Heck, I can sell you ANOTHER tab-tensioned 100" 4:3 screen for cheap.

BoredSysAdmin said:

I guess besides performance and required throw-image lens, there is one other need - company proven overtime to provide OEM lamp replacements for older units... I assume based on your strong rec that Sanyo is such company.

Click to expand...

Sanyo is just really on top of their stuff in this regard. I just looked at their list of projectors (discontinued) and picked out a 800x600 1,200 lumen model with 300:1 contrast and a price tag of $5000+. That's likely a 10+ year old model...

Sanyo still makes lamps for it, even though the price of a replacement lamp is MORE than the cost of a better projector new.

More exact, the Sanyo Z1 home theater projector is a solid 8+ years old now and still has lamps available as well. Yeah, lamps, at the very least, don't appear to be an issue with these guys.

Plus, since you use two lamps in that projector, you have that much more worry free time while using it.

Thanks again BMX,
Unfortunately 11'8" won't do the trick due to built into the desk conference mics. Due to building restrictions PJ can not be hang from celling and it leaves only one spot - one the large conference desk. 11'4" is the max distance i have to work with.

That means, regarding of PLC-XT50L includes the lens or not - it's off the short.
btw: I think your correct regarding this model not having kit lens as I noticed the L letter in the model seems to point to just that...

I think given all the choices PLC-XM100 seems to be the best choice.

Hope this thread will be useful to someone else besides me.

You rent a building that doesn't let you install things into the space? WTF is THAT all about???

Seriously, I've never heard of such a thing. Does it not have drop ceilings? Do they not have lights? I would be talking to them seriously about that rule because I've never heard of any building trying to pull that. Especially in this day and age when a lot of commercial space is getting hard to fill.

Literally, for a projector install, it's about two holes.

I would kill my landlord if they even tried to pull that crud with me.

No, more accurately, I would find out what they would need from me so that it would be possible to do what I wanted to do because it WAS going to happen.

Man, good luck with THAT situation. Way to accomodating if you have nice mics in the table, that projector should be up and out of the way. Especially since the projector noise will get picked up by those mics pretty easily.

BMXTRIX said:

You rent a building that doesn't let you install things into the space? WTF is THAT all about???

Seriously, I've never heard of such a thing. Does it not have drop ceilings? Do they not have lights? I would be talking to them seriously about that rule because I've never heard of any building trying to pull that. Especially in this day and age when a lot of commercial space is getting hard to fill.

Literally, for a projector install, it's about two holes.

I would kill my landlord if they even tried to pull that crud with me.

No, more accurately, I would find out what they would need from me so that it would be possible to do what I wanted to do because it WAS going to happen.

Man, good luck with THAT situation. Way to accomodating if you have nice mics in the table, that projector should be up and out of the way. Especially since the projector noise will get picked up by those mics pretty easily.

Click to expand...

Two words BMX - NY Landmark Building. Look it up - Seagram
This setup has been going for quite a while, without major complains, well except the constant brightness *****ing...

Wow - that sucks. Seriously, isn't it about time to knock that building down?

I would look for a bit more budget perhaps next time around and try for a long throw projector at the back of the room.

Extremely helpful. The church I work at is having a shadow effects on a projector a little overmatched already. I will recommend the Sanyo you linked.