UPDATED: Mark L. Schifter, PLEADS GUILTY to suspicion of charity fraud

Yeah the 170SE won that small GTG but my x-ls sounded not too far behind (they now are in the garage and have been upgraded with a better tweeter). The credit was bought at a discount (10%) and that is why people did it. Lesson learned. Never again will I fall for buying "future product." I also, ironically enough, originally was treated quite well by MLS when the amp in my Adire Audio Dharman sub died and they went out of business. He gave me some AV123 credit after he heard about how Adire Audio screwed me (sent the amp in and before I got it back or got a replacement they went out of business). I had been treated quite well by them in other ways I'd rather not go into here. In the end I did OK compared to many others. I don't own that much AV123 product and some was bought used, some b stock, and some won at get togethers. I just wish I amps for my subs that I knew I could trust or a company in business to replace them when they die. I can handle the outcome. I just don't have any money to deal with needing subs when mine fail.

cschang said:

The little GTG we had was great...but to me, it was great because MLS was not really involved or there. He got a bit upset when everyone seemed to like the 170SE more than the X-LS...remember? I met him at a GTG in Austin, and saw how he operated.

The credit you bought was at a discount, right? To put towards future product?

In other words, what was the expected advantage to buying the credit?

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Stereodude said:

That would certainly be the craziest ending to the saga. However, I suspect it's not the case.

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LoL.... no it's definitely NOT the case.

Personally, I was really hoping that AV123 survived. If for no other reason than maybe a plea deal arrangement could have been put in place where a portion of all new products sold went to pay off all of the raffle recipients who never saw a dime, all of the RSL II pre pay folks and any other people who were owed money by TADG(e) err.... the Humbly Bumbly one - until every single penny was paid back WITH interest.

So damn many people affected (in such a negative way) by one individual.... words just can't describle how I feel.

SteveSatch said:

Yeah the 170SE won that small GTG but my x-ls sounded not too far behind (they now are in the garage and have been upgraded with a better tweeter). The credit was bought at a discount (10%) and that is why people did it. Lesson learned. Never again will I fall for buying "future product." I also, ironically enough, originally was treated quite well by MLS when the amp in my Adire Audio Dharman sub died and they went out of business. He gave me some AV123 credit after he heard about how Adire Audio screwed me (sent the amp in and before I got it back or got a replacement they went out of business). I had been treated quite well by them in other ways I'd rather not go into here. In the end I did OK compared to many others. I don't own that much AV123 product and some was bought used, some b stock, and some won at get togethers. I just wish I amps for my subs that I knew I could trust or a company in business to replace them when they die. I can handle the outcome. I just don't have any money to deal with needing subs when mine fail.

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Not that it matters diddly squat and also doesn't do a damn thing getting your amp Steve.... but I can say at least ONE positive thing.... it was because of AV123 that I was fortunate enough to meet you and share a nice afternoon drinking wine and learning about your family. Are you still in the wine club of that particular winery? They had some pretty tasty juice for sure.

Folks

Just wanted to share a little info for future reference, but I hope none of you need it really.

I was talking with Hugh last night and he can get drivers for most if not all of the AV123 Rocket speakers. I asked him if since I was already doing all the sub kits(turbo/BigBlock) and as a onix/melody dealer if he wanted me to be the single point of contact for any replacement drivers and he said yes. So if you need any replacement drivers for any AV123 rockets or Onix speakers I should be able to get them for you. I am not sure about any of the X series products, but I think I should be able to get those as well.

Also As some of you know I have been working with seaton on a few upgrade kits for some of av123's subs. When I was developing the Turbo for the MFW-15 it was pretty cost prohibitive to come up with an amp to fit the rather strange/small/non standard opening. I will be revisiting and exploring new options for possible amps that might work for anyone needing a new amp. Any updates to this situation will be posted over at the seaton sound forum I would post the link, but I dont have enough posts over here yet to do so.

You can still get manuals

just google up "speaker site:av123.com/manuals/" and get them while they last.

I may also have some of their old manuals in an archive I've got of user manuals - will check it in the next couple days. If so, I could host them online if folks are interested.

SteveSatch said:

Yeah the 170SE won that small GTG but my x-ls sounded not too far behind (they now are in the garage and have been upgraded with a better tweeter). The credit was bought at a discount (10%) and that is why people did it. Lesson learned. Never again will I fall for buying "future product." I also, ironically enough, originally was treated quite well by MLS when the amp in my Adire Audio Dharman sub died and they went out of business. He gave me some AV123 credit after he heard about how Adire Audio screwed me (sent the amp in and before I got it back or got a replacement they went out of business). I had been treated quite well by them in other ways I'd rather not go into here. In the end I did OK compared to many others. I don't own that much AV123 product and some was bought used, some b stock, and some won at get togethers. I just wish I amps for my subs that I knew I could trust or a company in business to replace them when they die. I can handle the outcome. I just don't have any money to deal with needing subs when mine fail.

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Yeah, but at the GTG, we heard two pairs of stock X-LS's that sounded very different....yours being the better.

In my estimation, if AV123 knew who you were on the forums, they almost always treated you well.

sandbagger said:

Folks

Just wanted to share a little info for future reference, but I hope none of you need it really.

I was talking with Hugh last night and he can get drivers for most if not all of the AV123 Rocket speakers. I asked him if since I was already doing all the sub kits(turbo/BigBlock) and as a onix/melody dealer if he wanted me to be the single point of contact for any replacement drivers and he said yes. So if you need any replacement drivers for any AV123 rockets or Onix speakers I should be able to get them for you. I am not sure about any of the X series products, but I think I should be able to get those as well.

Also As some of you know I have been working with seaton on a few upgrade kits for some of av123's subs. When I was developing the Turbo for the MFW-15 it was pretty cost prohibitive to come up with an amp to fit the rather strange/small/non standard opening. I will be revisiting and exploring new options for possible amps that might work for anyone needing a new amp. Any updates to this situation will be posted over at the seaton sound forum I would post the link, but I dont have enough posts over here yet to do so.

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I think that's great if you will be able to support the needs of Rocket and MFW owners.

Chu Gai said:

just google up "speaker site:av123.com/manuals/" and get them while they last.

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Did they manage to complete that MFW manual? I think it was still a draft, what a shame, the official manual might never see the light of day...

SteveSatch said:

I only bought MFW15s because I had paid into my AV123 account saving for a BMF and when that never happened I bought MFW15s because I couldn't get my money back.

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You definitely had a case and would have won.

Ex: Person advertises product, let's be original here, a car, 2010 Porsches 911, brand new, for 40000$ if you buy gift certificates right now, for when the car becomes available. If you don't buy the GCs, you pay regular price.
Time passes. Dealer informs you he won't be able to get the car, but they have Hondas and Mazdas that you can purchase with your 40k of GCs. LOL

Bait and switch scam, against the law, you'd have had judgment issued on your side and most probably also been able to get some damages and interest. The non-refundable gift certificates were pretty much a scam, one which I'm fairly sure wouldn't have passed in court. They might say they're GC, and non-refundable, but context is important, you purchased them for BMF, it's BS then that the product you were planning to order isn't made and you have to buy some other **** you're not interested in...

But that's for when you decided to get MFWs instead of BMF... Once you decided to get MFW, and ordered them, and then had recurrent problems with the amp, you might have been able to ask for a refund and then go to court, since the MFW was probably not working for quite some time and obviously had some design flaw given the number of times it failed... But anyhow, that's more complicated, not sure how it would have played out in court. There's most definitely some law to protect the customer against defective products, but then with ID you have to consider the expense of shipping and all that... Bad situation for everyone, just have to be careful who you deal with, luckily they closed their doors, so no people affected by them in the future. I still think you'd have had a case there, and could have gotten a refund... So much hassle for a product... It's not reasonable.

Some even bought products after their whole mess became public... Anyhow, it's a life lesson, sometimes you really want to save a buck and end up paying for it later on.

The whole pre-pay and av123 credit thing was just one big, bait and switch scam.

RIP, AV123.

My equipment is going strong (purchased while the quality control was good), and I still like the people I met at the GTGs.

Too bad it had to end this way, and too bad MLS scammed so many.

Court Update

On August 13, 2010, Mark L. Schifter plead guilty to two charges.

Theft (F3) - felony - theft of $15,000 or more
Charitable Fraud (F5) - felony

Sentencing will take place on October 8, 2010. Further information as it becomes available.

Chu...do we know what the minimum sentences are for those felonies?

Found it...I think:
http://www.colorado-criminal-defense-attorney.com/criminal_court/sentencing_calculator.html

So:

Class 3 Min : 4 years / 3,000 dollar fine Max: 12 years / 750,000 dollar fine
Class 5 Min: 1 year / 1,000 dollar fine Max: 3 years / 100,000 dollar fine

So from 5 to 15 years, and 4k$ to 850k$ fine?

Then there's the guilty plea, which might reduce the sentence... http://www.philcherner.com/publications/Feb2010_CriminalLaw_2010-02.pdf then all kinds of other complexities which again might reduce it... But from the doc, seems like at least 50% of time is served in prison...

So since he pleaded guilty, prison time is pretty much guaranteed now? We need a lawyer in the house!

Ha...I changed the link. The link that is up there now is a bit different.

Presumably a plea arrangement included a sentencing recommendation. Meantime, it's all speculation until October.

GirgleMirt said:

So:

Class 3 Min : 4 years / 3,000 dollar fine Max: 12 years / 750,000 dollar fine
Class 5 Min: 1 year / 1,000 dollar fine Max: 3 years / 100,000 dollar fine

So from 5 to 15 years, and 4k$ to 850k$ fine?

Then there's the guilty plea, which might reduce the sentence... http://www.philcherner.com/publications/Feb2010_CriminalLaw_2010-02.pdf then all kinds of other complexities which again might reduce it... But from the doc, seems like at least 50% of time is served in prison...

So since he pleaded guilty, prison time is pretty much guaranteed now? We need a lawyer in the house!

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I'll see if I can find out more. Jail time would be nice. Apart from any fines, don't forget there's court costs, his legal costs, and restitution. There are also people going after him both in small claims and other civil matters.

I wonder if the official "shutting down" of AV123 had anything to do with the plea deal? The timing is there at least.

MinusTheBear said:

I wonder if the official "shutting down" of AV123 had anything to do with the plea deal? The timing is there at least.

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What I'm more curious about is how does the Denver BBB factor into this? Did they have some sort of heads up?