Suggestions on "High End" InWall 7.1 Setup

Hello,
Looking for some opinions on some Higher-End InWalls for my new dedicated Theater. We are purchasing a new home, so I will be building a new dedicated theater in the basement. I just sold my Triad InRoom Gold LCR's and OnWall Silver surrounds, in short they are amazing speakers and I could easily without regret, go and purchase another set of Triad InWall Gold LCR's and Surrounds...the only regret, would be the price tag (MRSP - $2K per LCR, $1600 per surround - OUCH!). I have been doing a lot of research...and I just can't decide. These would mainly be used for the Theater, but I also like to listen to music...that was what I liked about the Triad's good depth and the music sounded great...but the movies were so sharp and clear...it would make you jump out of your seat.

Ok you got, me, I am trying to not spend a small fortune if I don't have to...to get what I had...speakers with great music and movie sound...good depth and color. Here are a few that I have narrowed it down to...give me your opinions, and please be honest - Thanks.

Snell AMC 2000THX In-Wall THX Ultra2 LCR Speaker - $1400 each
Snell AMC 900THX Ultra2 3-way In-Wall Surround Speaker - $769 each
I have read comparisons between these and the Triads, they are fairly close in price...so I may as well go with Triad, plus these are a bit outdated...came out in 2006?

Atlantic Technology IWTS-30 LCR - $1250 each
Atlantic Technology IWTS-30 SR - $1050 pair

Paradigm Reference SA-LCR 3 - $1300 each w/Backbox
Paradigm Reference SA-ADP - $899 each

Definitive Technology UIW RLS II - $799 each
Definitive Technology UIW RSS II - $599 each
Definitive Technology SubAmp 600 - $649 each
Definitive Technology IWSub Reference - $1199 each
Definitive Technology UIW 75 - $399 each
I am kind of leaning towards this entire solution...all the professional reviews I have read say good things. I like the fact that I can build out an entire 7.1 setup. They also have the widest range of any of the LCR's - 20Hz-30kHz, most cut off around 55Hz, but I have never really heard much from DT's line, let alone inwalls.

MK Professional IW150 - $1000 each
MK Professional SS150 - $1399 pair
MK has always been known for their speakers...but from what I hear, with them moving everything to China, bankruptcy, etc...not sure if the quality/sound they were always known for is still there?
B&W CWM7.3 - $1500 each
B&W CWM7.4 - $800 each (for Surrounds or go with DS3's?)
B&W CWM7.5 - $600 each (for Rear Surrounds?)
I have always been and will always be a big B&W fan. I have some of the CMW500's and CMW Cinema6...and they sound great.

Triad InWall Silver/6 LCR - $1100 each
Triad InWall Silver/4 Surround - $800 each
I could always go with the one step down Triad to the silver line...I wonder how these would compare with any of the above items?

I have an Aragon 2007 amp, Rotel RSP-1570, Pioneer Elite PRO-141FD to name the main components. I did leave the subwoofers out for the most part, because this is another discussion all together.

Well those are my thoughts...please feel free to chime in and give me your opinions...thanks again.

http://www.sourcespeaker.com/Inwallist-4.html
http://www.cinepro.com/AFM-IWS-LitSpecsPage1-2_082708z.pdf
These are my two favorites, but there are other companies that make great inwalls too.

Additional Info

Wow, thanks for the information...I have never really heard of the Source Technologies...so I will definitely take a look at their products. I forgot on the other hand about Cinepro...wow the AFM sounds great...any ideas on pricing...where to buy, etc... Thanks again for the additional suggestions and info.

The Triad rep over at AVS himself gives James the thumbs up. Sorry that I have no idea how much their products cost:

http://www.jamesloudspeaker.com/index.cfm?page=inwall

Seagul said:

Wow, thanks for the information...I have never really heard of the Source Technologies...so I will definitely take a look at their products. I forgot on the other hand about Cinepro...wow the AFM sounds great...any ideas on pricing...where to buy, etc... Thanks again for the additional suggestions and info.

Click to expand...

Source Technologies is formely JSE Infinite Slope.

While I can't vouch for Source Technologies in-wall speakers, I have heard Walter's, and own a pair of their Coherent Pulse 7.1's
They are very impressive, with some of the best customer service I've ever experienced.

Genelec AIW26 are worth considering also, if you want to go the active route. Their subwoofers are great too.

From the TRIAD DUDE...

jostenmeat said:

The Triad rep over at AVS himself gives James the thumbs up. Sorry that I have no idea how much their products cost:

http://www.jamesloudspeaker.com/index.cfm?page=inwall

Click to expand...

Actually, I'm not "the rep;" I'm the director of sales and marketing at Triad. If I think someone other than Triad makes a good product, I'm not afraid of saying it.

That said, if price is an issue, you could do a Triad Silver inwall system. The LCRs and Surrounds are half the price of the Gold speakers, with >80% of the performance. The Silver LCR was recently upgraded to use the same Seas tweeter the Gold LCR uses. And there is a 4"-deep version of the Silver LCR in addition to the 6"-deep version (the InWall Gold/6 LCR is 6" deep), in case you have only 4" of stud depth. The Silver LCR is about 1 dB less sensitive (91 dB) and it will work well with amps capable of 250 watts per channel output. Also, because the speakers are built to order in America, we'll do a custom-painted grill at no additional charge.

I'm pleased you liked your Gold system so much, but you've been spoiled.

I think I have made my decision...

Well after countless hours of researching forums, websites, etc...and listening to quite a few various speakers (B&W, PSB, Def Tech, Paradigm, Triad, etc...) I decided to go with the Definitive Technology solution below.

Definitive Technology UIW RLS II - 3 for LCR
Definitive Technology UIW RSS II - 2 for Side Surrounds
Definitive Technology UIW - 2 for Rear Surrounds

Still trying to decide about the InWall Sub verses InRoom sub...so far it is between:

Definitive Technology SubAmp 600
Definitive Technology IWSub Reference

or

Sunfire SubRosa In-Wall Subwoofer - SRS-210W SYS

or any number of InRoom subs...I have time to decide...so I will continue with some more research.

I am not saying that any one of the above InWalls and even InRoom brands are better then any of the other...quite frankly all of them sounded great and had good and bad things about them. The reason I decided to go with Definitive Technology was quite simple...great sounding, full range (22Hz-30kHz), great price "the most bang for the buck". Thank you everyone for your suggestions and opinions...I have been turned on to some new brands that I will keep in mind for the future when I complete some custom installs and/or build out some of my other rooms.

Thank you Paul for your input...I will be honest, I am a bit scared venturing from the Triad's...I have worked with a lot of different speakers over the years...and with the Triad's you can never go wrong. I was leaning towards the Silver/6 series InWalls...and I might still price out an entire solution just to see...but I do like the fact that the Def Tech UIW RLS II are full range speakers all way down to 22Hz (Triad LCR/6 70Hz and out of all of the others I looked at, none below 50Hz - although the B&W CWM LCR8 35Hz-50kHz @ $1000 each w/BackBox)...now I am not saying that you don't need a sub (we all know how some good clean hard hitting bass can make or break a good system) but if I want to listen to some music in true stereo...without a sub...I can, and from what I have heard...these speakers handle the bass very well.

I haven't bought anything yet...I am heading on vaction soon, so I figured I would make the purchase when I get back...so if you have more info/opinions...keep them coming.

Thanks again for all of the information and opinions...this is a great forum with a lot of helpful knowledgeable members...thanks again.

There's a reason our LCRs don't extend deep into the bass...They're LCRs, and they're designed for use with a subwoofer. The tradeoff if you go for bass extension is you lose sensitivity, and that's a big problem. Our Platinum LCRs (121 dB output, $7,000 each) have an f3 of 60 Hz. If we had gone for bass extension, everyone would still run them "small" with subs, and we would have lost 3 dB of sensitivity.

Also, a "back box" is not a real enclosure. A proper enclosure is airtight (unless it's ported) and it's braced and inert. Back boxes are flimsy. But even more importantly, a speaker can EITHER be designed for infinite baffle OR sealed...not both. You should see what happens to the mid and upper bass when you slap a back box on a speaker designed as infinite baffle. It's ugly.

At some point, I think I will switch over to inwalls. I really like the set up I have now but would like my living room looking like a living room.

So far I have been impressed with James and Atlantic Technology, I have never found any Triad to listen to.

Now that I know Paul (wink, wink), I may get to go that route. I don't know if I can ever match the system I have now with inwalls but if I can come close, I will give it a shot.

What do you think Paul? I am willing to keep the real subs.

Paul Scarpelli said:

Actually, I'm not "the rep;" I'm the director of sales and marketing at Triad. If I think someone other than Triad makes a good product, I'm not afraid of saying it.

Click to expand...

My bad. Now that you have (finally) introduced yourself here, I will hope to avoid repeating the mistake, by simply referring to you from now on as THE TRIAD DUDE.

ParadigmDawg said:

At some point, I think I will switch over to inwalls. I really like the set up I have now but would like my living room looking like a living room.

So far I have been impressed with James and Atlantic Technology, I have never found any Triad to listen to.

Now that I know Paul (wink, wink), I may get to go that route. I don't know if I can ever match the system I have now with inwalls but if I can come close, I will give it a shot.

What do you think Paul? I am willing to keep the real subs.

Click to expand...

That's a great setup, other than the center being just off the reflective floor. InWall Silver or Gold LCRs would do a great job. There is also an advantage of having the front speaker flushed into the wall. You eliminate the reflection from the wall behind it. Frequencies that have a hemispherical radiating pattern (midrange and below) bounce off the wall and get mixed in with the direct signal, smearing the sound. The only disadvantages of a COMPARABLE inwall is you can't toe it in, you can't move it, and you're usually sitting three feet farther from it which results in approximately 3 dB less output. The simplistic, incorrect notion that "inwalls suck" is almost always based upon a comparison between nice freestanding speakers and cheap, plastic, open-back inwalls.

If you can keep your subs, keep them. A 4" or 6" deep inwall sub is at a disadvantage, and it's something that should be used as a last resort, or for a more modest distributed audio system.

James and Atlantic are among the best inwalls, and they're a good value, despite not being cheap. The Triad inwall line has many, many more choices, though. Not counting our six inwall sub configurations, we have twenty fully-enclosed inwall speakers that are inwall versions of our inroom speakers. Same drivers, crossover, same cabinet volume, etc.

Comment: I will not ever jump into a thread and recommend Triad unless someone has brought it up, and if Triad is appropriate for the application.

Great points...

I really didn't look at it from that point...but you raise great points. This has been my battle bouncing back and forth between inwalls and inroom, is the lack of the "full range" (20Hz-20kHz) of most inwalls. Like I said, 12 year Triad gold owner and they are amazing speakers. What I was looking for this time around, was the ability to find an inwall speaker with this "full range" ability...idea being, if I wanted to run direct Stereo (left and right only) for listening to music...I wouldn't have to run a sub. Seems very hard to find because of the restricted space/and inherent challenges the inwall environment provides. I am seriously considering going with Triad InRoom Silvers all around and then just running a separate inroom two channel setup for music (floor standing towers)? Without a doubt, this would be the "best" way to go to get what I am trying to achieve.

Like I said, Triad is undoubtedly one of the best in my book, that is why it is tough to even try anything else, but at the same time...if I can get a little closer to what I am trying to achieve...it may be worth a try. I just don't know if I want to gamble or stay with a sure thing Thanks again for the info...I still have some time to think about it before I pull the trigger...thanks again.

I know of no passive inwall fullrange speaker that has significant useable response below 30 Hz. Almost any inwall will have some sliver of measureable response at 20 Hz, but at a greatly reduced level and with no power handling. If a speaker will reproduce 20 Hz at -45 dB, and at no more than one watt input, it doesn't really go to 20 Hz. Not really. All of our speakers are rated at -3 dB for bass extension, which I believe is far more realistic and useful, although not as good a marketing tool. In reality, most subwoofers' response is dropping off hard below 22 Hz, and I doubt that a 17 lb. inwall speaker with small drivers can match that.

How would I do a center?

Paul Scarpelli said:

That's a great setup, other than the center being just off the reflective floor. InWall Silver or Gold LCRs would do a great job. There is also an advantage of having the front speaker flushed into the wall. You eliminate the reflection from the wall behind it. Frequencies that have a hemispherical radiating pattern (midrange and below) bounce off the wall and get mixed in with the direct signal, smearing the sound. The only disadvantages of a COMPARABLE inwall is you can't toe it in, you can't move it, and you're usually sitting three feet farther from it which results in approximately 3 dB less output. The simplistic, incorrect notion that "inwalls suck" is almost always based upon a comparison between nice freestanding speakers and cheap, plastic, open-back inwalls.

If you can keep your subs, keep them. A 4" or 6" deep inwall sub is at a disadvantage, and it's something that should be used as a last resort, or for a more modest distributed audio system.

James and Atlantic are among the best inwalls, and they're a good value, despite not being cheap. The Triad inwall line has many, many more choices, though. Not counting our six inwall sub configurations, we have twenty fully-enclosed inwall speakers that are inwall versions of our inroom speakers. Same drivers, crossover, same cabinet volume, etc.

Comment: I will not ever jump into a thread and recommend Triad unless someone has brought it up, and if Triad is appropriate for the application.

Click to expand...

You'll have the same problems you'd have with any fixed video display, only a bit worse. You can install the center vertically below the TV, or you can open the wall, remove a stud. and frame for the center and mount it horizontally. You'll need a carpenter and a drywaller, but it's probably no more than $500-$700 to do it right. Many people are scared away by having to do any custom work, but it's not that big of a dealio. The InWall Silver/6 LCR, mounted horizontally, is only around 11" high, so it will work well. Removing the stud allows you the latitude (no pun intended) to position the speaker so it's centered on the television.

Seagul,
Did you ever get the Def Tech Inwalls? Just one point -- the full range don't tell you the +/- db point so yes the speakers may be able to go down that low but you won't hear it thats for sure.