Building custom speakers without a design

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Y

yepimonfire

Audioholic Samurai
so ive been contemplating building some speakers, big ones. i think i can handle the electrical part, but i have no clue how to design the cabinet for acoustics. i have two different ideas in mind.

1. three large 12" woofers to handle the low end x-overed at 375hz, then put in a decently sized (im thinking five inches) midrange to handle 375hz-2000hz and a tweeter to cover everything else.

2.a four way speaker that has a built in passive sub (reason for 4-way) my goal would be o x-over the sub-driver (12") at 100hz, from looking at the parts on parts express, im wondering if i would need a seperate x-over for the sub-driver. then an 8" to handle the rest of it x-overed at 375, a mid-range, and a tweeter.

these would apparently be floorstanders.

so i have a general idea of the parts i want to put into them. feel free to give me ideas on the parts but keep in mind i want to design a very large speaker capable of flawlessly handling the lowest of lows.

i also have an idea for a center channel, a large one, 2 6.5" drivers and a 3" midrange and a tweeter utilizing a x-over that crosses the low end off at around 600hz. but i want to figure out the floorstanders first.

also if you can find a very large speaker design utilizing large drivers (above 10") that can handle bass well feel free to recommend them.
 
L

Loren42

Audioholic
yepimonfire said:
so ive been contemplating building some speakers, big ones. i think i can handle the electrical part, but i have no clue how to design the cabinet for acoustics. i have two different ideas in mind.

1. three large 12" woofers to handle the low end x-overed at 375hz, then put in a decently sized (im thinking five inches) midrange to handle 375hz-2000hz and a tweeter to cover everything else.

2.a four way speaker that has a built in passive sub (reason for 4-way) my goal would be o x-over the sub-driver (12") at 100hz, from looking at the parts on parts express, im wondering if i would need a seperate x-over for the sub-driver. then an 8" to handle the rest of it x-overed at 375, a mid-range, and a tweeter.

these would apparently be floorstanders.

so i have a general idea of the parts i want to put into them. feel free to give me ideas on the parts but keep in mind i want to design a very large speaker capable of flawlessly handling the lowest of lows.

i also have an idea for a center channel, a large one, 2 6.5" drivers and a 3" midrange and a tweeter utilizing a x-over that crosses the low end off at around 600hz. but i want to figure out the floorstanders first.

also if you can find a very large speaker design utilizing large drivers (above 10") that can handle bass well feel free to recommend them.
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Building a speaker without a design is like taking a hike in the Amazon without a map and compass.

Both suggestions you cited are going to be some of the most complex designs you could pick. A 3-way system is almost an order of magnitude more complex than a 2-way system. Also, cost is going to be a lot higher with a 3-way. I won't even get into a 4-way system.

If you are really a first time speaker builder there is no safer refuge than buying a ready designed kit. Madisound has some very good kits designed by some very knowledgeable people. You can't go wrong.

If you insist on doing the whole thing yourself, be ready for a long and arduous slug if a 3-way or 4-way is really what you want. Be prepared for at least one do-over because lessons learned on the first go around will prove to you that you need to do it over to get it right.

Even a 2-way from scratch is going to take a lot of work. Cutting wood is the easy part, but the design and subsequent dialing in of the system is orders of magnitude more effort (and cost).

I suggest you start with a book, Vance Dickason's The Loudspeaker Design Cookbook.

Start reading that and come back with questions as you go. There are many experts here and you will learn a lot, but it takes a lot of time and dedication to get a handle on this. You don't get this stuff down in a week or two, it can take years. That is why a kit is a good place to start.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
Even using an actual design has no guarantee that it will be correct because of variations in the drivers' characteristics. Even if the crossover components are consistent, the variations in the drivers will cause the actual performance to be different.

The most basic method is guessing, building them and listening. Then, you would need to guess where the problems are and what it will take to correct them. This method was used before all of the parameters and their effects were known but once good microphones were developed, it became possible to use oscillators and an oscilloscope to get a rough idea of the response curve. Then, they could try different crossover components and designs to get the response they wanted but before they could really do any of this, they needed to define what they wanted from the speaker.

The way it was done in the 1920s and '30s was all they had but unless you want to be old and gray by the time you get them right, use the available technology if you want anything that approaches instant gratification.
 
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
There are many rookies and former rookies who thought all they needed was some clever ideas, a circle saw, some MDF, and a Parts Express catalog and they could build some great sounding speakers. This is a guaranteed way to waste your money and time. So far, the ideas in your original post qualify you for a Rookie DIY Speaker Builder Without a Plan t-shirt. No insult or offense intended, but you really should stop right there.

The methods for designing sealed or bass reflex cabinets for bass performance are clearly worked out and are very well explained in books such as Speaker Building 201 by Ray Alden. I strongly recommend you buy or borrow this book, or the one by Vance Dickason, and spend some time reading and understanding them. This is the easy part.

Once you understand cabinet design, then you can tackle the more complex problems of 2-way design and developing a crossover. Then you might be ready for 3-ways.

If all this sounds interesting, go ahead, get the books, and start reading. You should also get ready to spend some money on testing gear and design software, and spend more time learning how to properly use them. There are no quick and easy shortcuts to designing your own good sounding speakers.

If you really want to build some good speakers just once, I strongly suggest you build a kit or proven DIY design. There are many published on the internet that were designed by people who know what they are doing, and have been extensively tested and trouble-shot. Ask, and I'm sure people will have some good suggestions.
 
Alex2507

Alex2507

Audioholic Slumlord
Swerd said:
There are many rookies and former rookies who thought all they needed was some clever ideas, a circle saw, some MDF, and a Parts Express catalog and they could build some great sounding speakers. This is a guaranteed way to waste your money and time. So far, the ideas in your original post qualify you for a Rookie DIY Speaker Builder Without a Plan t-shirt. No insult or offense intended, but you really should stop right there.

The methods for designing sealed or bass reflex cabinets for bass performance are clearly worked out and are very well explained in books such as Speaker Building 201 by Ray Alden. I strongly recommend you buy or borrow this book, or the one by Vance Dickason, and spend some time reading and understanding them. This is the easy part.

Once you understand cabinet design, then you can tackle the more complex problems of 2-way design and developing a crossover. Then you might be ready for 3-ways.

If all this sounds interesting, go ahead, get the books, and start reading. You should also get ready to spend some money on testing gear and design software, and spend more time learning how to properly use them. There are no quick and easy shortcuts to designing your own good sounding speakers.

If you really want to build some good speakers just once, I strongly suggest you build a kit or proven DIY design. There are many published on the internet that were designed by people who know what they are doing, and have been extensively tested and trouble-shot. Ask, and I'm sure people will have some good suggestions.
Click to expand...
Lured in by the flame ... Swerd goes up in smoke ... :D

 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
You made a post yesterday saying you were going to cool it and learn. Now we have one of the daftest posts here in many a day, or year, for that matter.

You have to start small not big.

To pull off a project like you envision, is highly complex. It will require a lot of study and experience. You will have a huge investment in, books, software and test gear for a start. It will take you many years, and cost you many thousands of dollars to build a project that complex that will be better than listening to a portable radio.

You will not doing entirely with passive crossover either.

If you keep this up, I don't see your red chicklets turning green anytime soon.

You just don't even want to know what the cost of the speaker system in my signature actually was and I'm not telling you.
 
Alex2507

Alex2507

Audioholic Slumlord
TLS Guy said:
You made a post yesterday saying you were going to cool it and learn. Now we have one of the daftest posts here in many a day, or year, for that matter.

You have to start small not big.

To pull off a project like you envision, is highly complex. It will require a lot of study and experience. You will have a huge investment in, books, software and test gear for a start. It will take you many years, and cost you many thousands of dollars to build a project that complex that will be better than listening to a portable radio.

You will not doing entirely with passive crossover either.

If you keep this up, I don't see your red chicklets turning green anytime soon.

You just don't even want to know what the cost of the speaker system in my signature actually was and I'm not telling you.
Click to expand...
... and then there were two. :eek: :D

 
J

jamie2112

Banned
Seriously ,Really??? I want to build a car.I am going to get a hood from pep boys and a frame from one of those California body custom shops .....oh yeah I don't know anything about cars,oh well I will figure it out.....
 
Alex2507

Alex2507

Audioholic Slumlord
jamie2112 said:
Seriously ,Really??? I want to build a car.I am going to get a hood from pep boys and a frame from one of those California body custom shops .....oh yeah I don't know anything about cars,oh well I will figure it out.....
Click to expand...
The gas is on the right. ;)
 
Alex2507

Alex2507

Audioholic Slumlord
TLS Guy said:
Yes, stereo!
Click to expand...
LOL !!! :D

I get that most can't help themselves but getting you and Swerd in one thread is quite an accomplishment.
I should turn his chicklets green for that alone. :rolleyes:
 
lsiberian

lsiberian

Audioholic Overlord
LOL good one. You do have enough time on your hands to build a speaker, but those Sony's are so wonderful you'd never get upgraded.:rolleyes:

When you grow up and can afford to build some speakers after you get through high school and college. Himalayas are nice this time a year. Why don't you take a hike?
 
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
In my (feeble) defense… I wasn‘t innocently drawn to the flame. You don’t have to be a rocket scientist to know this guy’s recent inflammatory history on AH.



Even trolls, like him get one chance with me before they get added to my list of wrestling opponents to avoid.

He’s smart enough to know how to press people’s buttons, and clearly, my button is telling people that having a Parts Express catalog does not qualify you as a speaker designer. I doubt my comments will change anything for him.

Anyone who suggests a speaker with three 12” woofers is automatically suspicious. But I have known at least one teenaged boy who honestly thought speakers like that would be great, even if it led to a speaker cabinet bigger than a two-story doghouse.

But never mind the troll, others do read these posts, and I hope someone will benefit.
 
Y

yepimonfire

Audioholic Samurai
well i really dont understand why i am getting attacked, but i will get and read the books and just experiment. and i do have some idea about how much this will cost me, its going to be around 500 a speaker minimum, and i am planning to use pre-built crossovers. secondly i am cooling it and learning, someone suggested i post and ask about about building my own speakers, so i did, i am learning obviously.

and for the last time, this does not qualify as trolling.
 
J

James NM

Audioholic
Swerd said:
... But I have known at least one teenaged boy who honestly thought speakers like that would be great, even if it led to a speaker cabinet bigger than a two-story doghouse ...
Click to expand...
And I'm thinking that building the speakers without a design (or clue), the OP might just end up with that two-story doghouse instead of a speaker.

Without a destination, how do you know when you've arrived?
 
Y

yepimonfire

Audioholic Samurai
i was asking for some guidlines on how to build cabinets.
 
bandphan

bandphan

Banned
Start with the book that was linked and the advice of a less ambitious project. The Madison kits linked are a cool way to start. Play around with the software also. Model the kits so you can see whats going on, putting terminology to a product.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
yepimonfire said:
i was asking for some guidlines on how to build cabinets.
Click to expand...
If you want to learn how to build cabinets, go to Rockler or WoodCraft and look at their books. Also, Taunton Press prints Fine Woodworking and they have articles available from past issues. If you have access to a woodworking class at school or one of the woodworking supply stores, take some. Just be careful with power tools.
 
lsiberian

lsiberian

Audioholic Overlord
highfigh said:
If you want to learn how to build cabinets, go to Rockler or WoodCraft and look at their books. Also, Taunton Press prints Fine Woodworking and they have articles available from past issues. If you have access to a woodworking class at school or one of the woodworking supply stores, take some. Just be careful with power tools.
Click to expand...
This is actually very good advice. You could also mod your current speakers with some rockwool to improve their sound quality.
 
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