Well, you have to understand that the burned in cables kind of did it for us.
Bare with me and I'll share with you young man.
Look, when I was not much younger than you were I thought the same thing.
I can also still remember my disbelief when I buddy of mine told me what a difference his power cords would make too. I thought he was crazy (not really crazy, but I had to hear it myself). Then he let me hear one. We tried it just on my power amp. Man was he right. That power cord made a significant difference.
You can believe what you want about that. I don't care. It doesn't bother me one way or another what you think about subjective matters. It is just that. It's subjective. You can have your own opinion but you can't have mine.
I have heard differences in wire from speaker cables to interconnects, burned in and not burned in even cryo treating. It does make a difference and if you had the privilege of my experiences you'd think too.
I can't scientifically explain everything that is going on there and barely have a grasp on some of the fundamentals that take place regarding wire burn in.
There is no sense in arguing that stuff. So you might as well drop it. Until you hear it for yourself you won't believe. If you ever plan a trip out this way (Texas) I'll be glad to enlighten you (any of you).
Now speaker burn in is a different story. The same goes for woofer burn in. There is not only an electrically burn in but a mechanical one as well. The mechanical changes in compliance are fairly easy to document.
All you have to do is measure the T/S parameters of a woofer before and after various intervals to see what type of time is needed for this change to take place and to reach a settling range.
The problem is, and the problem that I have with you guys is that you haven't done that. But what you have done is post some false and misleading information.
Do yourselves and everyone else a favor and remove it.
Then post real measured data taken before and after various amounts of time. If you take the time to do it right then you'll see the results for yourself. At least you can then from an opinion based on something and not an opinion based on nothing. What you have now is worse than nothing because it is just something that you made up. I theory based on nothing is worth less than nothing.
They all have stated driver break in is measurable but from all of their controlled DBT testing it was inaudible.
For some people is will not be audible, but for a whole lot of people it is. If you ever come visit with me I'll put something together to show just how audible it really is. That's the part not worth arguing over.
Woofer suspensions do loosen up, as we stated in our article on this matter.
Yes, but you stated that it takes place in just tens of seconds and that's it. Just a few seconds later and it's all burned in huh? That is just false and misleading. That is the part that you need to address. How long does it really take?
In a real room with real music and not test tones, the acoustical change if any is very minor.
Ah, now this sounds very inconsistent. Now it is "the acoustic change if any..." and sure it will be "minor". But you haven't heard it yet and have no idea.
Of course smart loudspeaker designers take into account when designing woofer/enclosure systems so it does once again become a moot point.
Yes we can take it into account but the change in optimal box volume and tuning is pretty small. I can change the box tuning more by adding or taking away damping material. You see as one set of variables go one way (making the optimal box size larger) the other parameters go the other way (making optimal box size smaller).
Of geez an audio elitist You're on the wrong forum for this. Sorry we don't review more triode tube amps, cable risers and vinyl devices, we prefer equipment that measures better on the bench, has better reliability and usability, and overall superior accuracy.
I wouldn't call myself and elitist and if you knew me very well you wouldn't either. While I do design products in entry level price ranges I don't do so with entry level gear. I am always looking for the best bang for the buck to offer my customers, but I don't do critical listening and evaluating of a product that I am designing on bank for the buck gear in an entry level class. Granted I do look for the best bang for the buck gear for my own system but it is in more of a cost no object class. No offense but it is critical for my job. When I evaluate a speaker that I have been working on I need to hear exactly what IT is doing. I can't be listening through bottlenecked electronics or piece of crap gear. If I have issue with any audible problem, I must know that it is not something else in the chain.
I put a ton of time and effort into any product that I design, and some of them have won some of the industry's highest awards and been in nearly all of the major publications. Even the cheapest speakers that I design gets evaluated on thousands of dollars worth of electronics for hours on end, and in multiple systems.
Now how do you think I feel when one of those products gets reviewed somewhere by a guy using a Denon receiver and a Koss DVD player as a CD player. Man, that's insulting. It is absolutely insulting. I can't help but thing to myself that I am glad he liked it but he really hasn't even heard it. Understandably the customer is going to hook it up to whatever else is in the same price range, but it should NEVER be reviewed with entry level gear. What you'll hear is exactly what you feed it.
Guess what else. If your system is nothing more than an inexpensive home theater receiver and a DVD play, you're probably not going to hear the differences in speaker burn in. You won't likely hear the difference from one kind of wire to the next either, let alone how the sound of wire changes from burn in time. If this is your view of audio and you like it that's fine, but there is a whole other world out there that you haven't seen yet.
You need to make contact with Richard Pierce on this subject of driver measurements. You have heard of him?
Yea I think I have.
He's the wrong guy for you to throw in my face. I have had to re-engineer his work plenty.
I seriously doubt his measurements will support your claims. Oh, yes, respect has to be earned first.
Trust me, I have seen his work and I am not impressed. He has earned no respect from me.
