Thinking of returning my Axiom m80s...

I have tomorrow off from work so if you're available I would gladly come over.

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Gasp - the thought of having sheep show up at your door

LOL/

phillyguy said:

Perhaps you can home audition the B&W's before you send back the Axioms. You may find you don't like the B&W's as much in your home. But you will be able to compare them side by side to the Axioms. Not familiar with your Denon, but I assume you set up an A/B to be able to switch between them?

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Yes that's a good idea and a very good point... but unfortunatly the dealer I visited will only do exchanges and not refunds.

Robot, I just recently bought a pair of Axiom 60s, and like you I really wanted to get the 80s. One of my friends at work convinced me however, to go with the 60s because not only are the 80s hard to drive, but in my apartment I would not be able to play them loud enough to appreicate them.

Even with the 60s, I still feel that I cannot really let them rip, and perhaps thats also why they sound a bright than I'd like, even with wall-to-wall carpeting.

I think you should give good consideration to the points made by Gene and some of the others about furniture placement and not be in too much of a hurry to return your speakers.


Sheep take pix of yourselves too & post

Does this place have a pix thread for the members?

Sheep take pix of yourselves too & post

Does this place have a pix thread for the members?

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If I take pics (most likely will) I'll just upload them in photobucket and post them in this thread.

I don't care if pics of me are posted, but Robot will decide if he wants pics of himself taken.

Maybe I'll just pose for the M80s, and bust in a driver or two.

EDIT: I had a photo of myself in my system thread, but people started making connections of me and leif garret, and I moved the photo in photobucket and now it's lost. I'll get an updated one and put it up somewhere.

SheepStar

robot said:

Well to be fair only one person said that, and I believe Gene mentioned amps because I could have been hearing some $3000 fancy amp at the hifi shop.

I think of my 2106 as a fairly good amp. It's certainly not bad.

After listening to both sources thoroughly I do find the DVD player to sound a bit better. I hardly notice unless I play the same song back to back. The Creative X-Fi seems to have a pretty good DAC.

One thing I also noticed with the B&Ws was vocal clarity. I guess this is mostly due to the midrange driver? The 7 series midrange driver with the phase plug sounded even more amazing.

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Robot, sound is very personal. If you prefer the sound of the B&W speakers, then definately get those. The catch is, as others have pointed out, that you really won't know how they'll sound in your place until you get them there. That sound may be very different from the sound in the store.

For example, I listened to some $20 Insignia three way indoor outdoor speakers at a bestbuy. These have a 4" driver on them. I kept checking the subwoofers to make sure none were on because these were making good clean bass and really sounded good. When I traced out the wires, I found it hooked up to a Sonance amp. I'm still sure they hid a sub somewhere that was on. Point is, there is no way those speakers are going to sound that good in my friends bathroom.

Tell the guy with the B&W's that you're not willing to buy them unless you can do a back to back comparison. Him simply telling you they will sound better does not make it so. See if he'll let you bring your speakers in or offer you a reasonable time (a week) for a full refund. If he stands behind his products this shouldn't be an issue. If it is, try another store.

Jack

You should get the B&Ws home

Robot,
I bought all (almost) Axiom speakers to audition them at home because I simply couldnt decide based on comments from other owners. But the forums helped me shortlist the speaker brands that I wanted to try. Also it goes hand in hand with what is convenient for you. For me, returning speakers from online sellers was not a hassle and as far as showroom auditioning goes, I had a local dealer who carried PSB and B&Ws.
So I went ahead and ordered Axioms, listened to them for a few days and then went to local dealer with the same CDs and auditioned the PSB (Alphas) and B&Ws (600 Series 3). My first impression was that both PSB and B&Ws sounded better than Axiom. I went to the dealer the second time and listened just the B&Ws again (I heard 600, 601, 602, 602.5, 603 and 604) I really liked them and told the dealer that I would like to audition them at home. After initial hesitation, the deal we made was that I would buy the speakers, but the ones I can take home were the ones on display. I was able to keep the speakers for 2 days and buying them was sort of security deposit for the dealer. This worked fine for me and I took the 602 and 602.5 at home.
End result was that the B&W are great speakers, definitely laid back than Axiom. They are better musically than the Axioms. But Axioms beat the crap out of any speakers (IMO) when it comes to HT application. I did not like the B&W center channel when I heard it in store. So for me, since the speakers were required 70% movies and 30% music, I went in for Axioms.
I have the M60, VP150 and QS8. I like them and they grew on me. Now I like the music too, though I think Axioms can do better musically.
But overall, these speakers with my PB12-NSD kick a$$. I love what I have.

So the point is...buy what you like, but dont go by what you hear in a store. Get'em home.

Update,

I've been speaking wit Robot outside of the forum, and I saw some pictures of his setup. The M80s are far to much speaker for his room. He's sitting only a couple feet away, and the room isn't that wide.

We're talking about speakers that can be had locally for his budget ATM.

SheepStar

Don't like 'em? Send 'em back! Its your money, buy the speakers you like more.

Stand back, ya'll. Sheep's got this under control. Nothing to see here...

Heres the layout.



NOTE: Picture may be removed if Robot wishes so.

SheepStar

lol yeah I guess it's kind of funny that I'm using them as glorified computer speakers right now. I'm fairly tall, if I sit on my mattress my ears are roughly level with the bottom tweeter. The higher up I sit the brigher they sound.

After stuffing the rear ports with socks I find the overall sound to be cleaner, but the lower bass extension is pretty much gone. I think my room really brings out the worst in these speakers. They need as close to an anechoic space as possible.

The amplifier is also questionable but I don't think it's the most important issue.

I just had an idea flash...

I've jammed the front ports with underwear and draped socks over the top tweeters. I'll report back with the results.

your room is incredibly bright ... granted the axioms they say are bright themselves, maybe you need some room treatment OR furniture im sure without furniture, the sound is freely bouncing back and forth.

Sheep said:

Heres the layout.

NOTE: Picture may be removed if Robot wishes so.

SheepStar

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I'm surprised that the Axiom crew didn't strongly recommend against these speakers based on Robo's layout.

You should have M22 v2 speakers in that room on stands. Or just acknowledge that these speakers will do better 'later' when you move them into a larger room.

Holy crap Robot, I can't believe you haven't blown and eardrum yet... The M80s would be a good fit for my room which comes in a little more than 2800 cubic feet, anything less than 2500 they'd likely be overkill. I can't tell from the picture, but I'd say you have less than 1000 cf total of listening area...

I'd go with Clint's suggestion on this, their M22s w/a decent sub would be very good fit for your room. And unless you're planning on buying a house w/a fairly sizable room, the M80s are just going to be too much... -TD

I think I spot the problem

evilkat said:

I'm surprised that the Axiom crew didn't strongly recommend against these speakers based on Robo's layout.

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Its that empty on the right hand side thats throwing off the whole acoustics of your room.

Seriously, you have a very bright room with lots of echo coming from the sidewalls, flooring, and even behind the speakers. Treating your room acoustically will do a night and day difference but I still feel the speakers overpower the room.

You can keep them if you plan on moving them to a larger room in the futur or trade them for something smaller.

tomd51 said:

Holy crap Robot, I can't believe you haven't blown and eardrum yet... The M80s would be a good fit for my room which comes in a little more than 2800 cubic feet, anything less than 2500 they'd likely be overkill. I can't tell from the picture, but I'd say you have less than 1000 cf total of listening area...

I'd go with Clint's suggestion on this, their M22s w/a decent sub would be very good fit for your room. And unless you're planning on buying a house w/a fairly sizable room, the M80s are just going to be too much... -TD

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It's a bachelor suite, so my bedroom is basically the whole apartment... I would say that I've got at least 2000 cf of listening area, but a lot of that space is far away because of the room's rectangular shape. In any case, apparently not enough for these speakers.

My room is bright but I think some of you guys might be exaggerating a bit... maybe around 50% of the floorspace is covered by junk of some kind or another. I've been in larger spaces that are far more echoey than this.

The man obviously has his priorities in order. Women will just throw-away any furniture you buy anyway.

While your listening area might be 2000 cf, sitting on top of speakers this size in the setup you have doesn't allow any breathing room, so I can definitely see how they'd seem forward or bright. I'd expect almost any decent sized bookshelf or tower size speaker that wasn't a satellite/cube to seem a bit forward at this distance.

While some room is treated as you noted, the bare walls and ceiling will produce quite a bit of reflection, altering the mid and high frequencies. You'd be amazed at how much a bookshelf, chair, sofa, even fake silk tree difuses the sound. I think the brightness is more a localization issue than room.

Just out of curiosity, when you've demo'ed the B&Ws, are you as close when listening to them and doing so at the same listening levels? This, along with having them in the same location (distance from left to right as well as from the speaker to you) will give you a better comparision between the two.

Room treatments will make a difference, but unless your able to compare apples to apples, both the B&Ws and Axioms in the same room, in the same location, at the same listening level, you'll have a tough time getting a good comparison... -TD

Didn't read...

...the whole thread but, did you try to toe-out the cabinets...I recall a remark about "sitting higher makes it worse" or some such...the on-axis response levels might be the problem...

And of course, here's the 64 cent question: do you have tone controls?

jimHJJ(...jus' wunnerin'...)