Would appreciate input on audio interconnects.

tejax said:

Jack Hammer is right. One of the biggest myths about digital connections is the "all or nothing" theory. This is simply untrue. The protocol even may be designed in such a way that a miss bit could cause a major problem, promoting the "nothing" at the other end, but that doesn't happen at the transmission level, and does not occur in most digital protocols, anyway.

I'll give you an example that happened to me. Had two dvd players, both connected to a denon avr 3805, both via optical toslink. Both cables exactly the same (model, brand, length), running the same path, similar bending. Now, inserted an HDCD (van halen-1984) on one, the denon detected HDCD (showed on the screen). Inserted on the other, the denon didn't detected it as HDCD. In fact, it detected it as a regular "PCM digital" and started playing it normally (without hdcd decoding however).

In this case we're not talking about the cables "per se" (they were equal), but about the lossy characteristics of digital connections. The first player had a better electrical-to-optical circuit, a stronger led, or something else, that made the transmission to be less faulty than the second. On the second we all have to agree that bits were loss during the transmission, however not enough to cause a total failure, as the denon still played the pcm stream it was getting.

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Were both players rated to read HDCD? Maybe one was defective if it was?
The HDCD is in the processing end of the CD player, not in reading it. After all, a CD has a standard to meed and HDCD has the same RedBook standard, period, that it needs to meet.
Bits were not lost. Flags were not read for some reason to activate the HDCD protocol that further manipulates the code, like a level difference.

Jack Hammer said:

...I've read in other threads that many peoples opinions on toslink cables is that they are all the same because they only transmit 1's and 0's and those are pretty hard to mess up. Further that any claim to improved sound quality is snake oil and it is nearly impossible (my own summarization) for there to be any difference.

[FLAMEJACKET ON]
It occured to me the other day that there could potentially be a difference. The cables only have to transmit 1's & 0's, but what happens if the end of the cables, where the light goes into and out of the cable, aren't as well polished? I mean if they are blurred. Wouldn't that potentially effect the ability of a clear number to be read on the other end of the cable? Also, if inferior material is used to manufacture the light transmitting cable itself (fiber optic material), couldn't it possibly effect the 'clarity' of the signal being passed? What does the reciever do when it gets an unclear signal? How does it know if it was originally intended to be a 1 or a 0? [/FLAMEJACKET OFF]

Guys, I'm just asking, and legitimately curious. So to the cable conspiracy fanatics out there, either contribute something useful or nothing at all.

Jack

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The problem is that S/PDIF digital cables DON'T only deliver one's and zero's. If that were true, there would certainly be no difference between reasonably competently designed cables. There is also an analog component to the transmission and it is contained in the pacing of the words.

If the received pacing is at all variable, then the clocking of the DAC will also be variable (unlike the original master sampling clock and despite filtering of the reconstituted transmitter clock). That introduces audible errors in the sound and is referred to generally as jitter. That's a very real and measurable phenomenon (usually measured by evaluating the spectrum of the reconstituted strobe clock).

>>The effect of jitter is to cause audio samples to be reconstituted at time intervals that differ from those by which they were originally taken. This results in the creation of a different analog siginal from the original. Frequencies added, frequencies adjusted, phase angles changed, and amplitudes modified.<<

There're are plenty of possible sources for that error and the cables are one of them (other example sources are the transmitter and receiver). The primary source of problems in the cables is not due to external interference, it's due to internal reflections. The reflections are usually the result of imperfect termination impedance characteristics, and that includes optical termination issues with Toslink. (Problems with the internal physical structure of the conductor can also contribute reflections.)

>>The effect of reflections is to obscure the exact timing of the embedded word clock.<<

-- Trevor

PS. As I said earlier, I don't intend to get into arguments over this stuff. If you choose to consider it bunk -- that's your privilege.

Hey Guys,

Before you took off on a discussion of HDCD, the OP (me) was looking for guidance as to good sounding low cost analog interconnects and also any further useful thoughts on speaker cables. Here are excerpts from my original post:

TrevorS said:

I'm looking at downsizing my audio cable investment.

I'm using BJC 5T00UP 10 AGW speaker cable on my center channels and it's working out fine. I don't know if that's also a good speaker cable for the main channels and music as well as HT, but maybe. Any other suggestions?

Does anyone have any recommendations on modest cost interconnects? I need a pair of good sounding 15ft balanced cables and I'm currently considering BJC 1800F with Neutric XLR's and Signal Analog Two Balanced (I don't see mention of the connector manufacturer). Silver wire doesn't interest me since it generally sounds too bright in my system.

I could also use some single ended interconnects (RCA), and am thinking of the same two suppliers, or perhaps Heartland 89259 with Eichmann Bullets?

Any recommendations or thoughts on this subject?

Thanks -- Trevor

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Any ideas from experience and comparisons of your own?

mtrycrafts said:

Well, at 3X you are buying piece of mind, nothing more, nothing less.

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It's definitely true I opted for peace of mind -- my confidence being much higher with the Analysis Plus. Ideally, I would have got a sample of the BJC and directly compared, but I didn't.

mtrycrafts said:

The optical is either working or it is not, no in-between about it. As to your other post on 75ohm coax, unless you have huge interference issues, they are all the same, period.

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Can't agree with you on this. See my reply to Jack Hammer in post #22:

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=211321&postcount=22

Still, we're all entitled to our opinions.

-- Trevor

TrevorS said:

Hey Guys,

Before you took off on a discussion of HDCD, the OP (me) was looking for guidance as to good sounding low cost analog interconnects and also any further useful thoughts on speaker cables. Here are excerpts from my original post:
Any ideas from experience and comparisons of your own?

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All things considered I don't think cable buying is that complicated . I think one can do most of their cable shopping from Radio Shack or similar outlet. I use their 14gauge speaker wire and their Radio Shack Gold interconnects. Never had a problem. I have also bought some AR interconnects at BB and speaker wire at Home Depot. Lots of folks like the custom build quality from Blue Jean. Doesn't sound different, but having a nice quality attractive cable appeals to some including me, though I have not made a purchase from Blue Jean so far. That's my "keep it simple" view in regards to audio\video connections.

Nick

TrevorS said:

Hey Guys,

Before you took off on a discussion of HDCD, the OP (me) was looking for guidance as to good sounding low cost analog interconnects and also any further useful thoughts on speaker cables. Here are excerpts from my original post...

...Any ideas from experience and comparisons of your own?

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I buy my Acoustice Research ProII cables from these guys, Accessories for less, They are inexpensive, and regardless of whether or not there is actually any difference between cables or not, these are well made enough to suit my needs and inexpensive enough to give me peace of mind.

TrevorS said:

Hey Guys,

Before you took off on a discussion of HDCD, the OP (me) was looking for guidance as to good sounding low cost analog interconnects and also any further useful thoughts on speaker cables. ?

Click to expand...

You are looking for a cure for a nonexistent problem. Follow Nick.