2 Smaller Subs vs. 1 Bigger Sub

My sub-woofer budget is $1000 to $1200. Someone suggested buying two less expensive subs, vs. one bigger sub. Has anyone done this?

if you had a bigger budget ... maybe, consider the 2 subs.

but with 1200 bucks you get 2 crappy subs or 1 good sub

go for the 1 good sub

how big is your room? cubic feet?

19 x 12 w/ 7' ceilings

In your price range, I would look at the SVS PB12-Ultra, the SVS PB12-Plus/2, the HSU VTF-3HO and the Axiom EP500. Those are the ones to beat.

1600 cubic feet ... forgot to ask percentage of HT and music usage.

if mostly for HT, the SVS and Axiom choices are good. (still just one unit over two)

leaning towards the PB Ultra or EP500

Haywood Jablomi said:

In your price range, I would look at the SVS PB12-Ultra, the SVS PB12-Plus/2, the HSU VTF-3HO and the Axiom EP500. Those are the ones to beat.

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I would agree with this at the price point you are considering, although the Ultra is going to bust your budget by about a c-note. Don't forget the Rocket UFW-12, either, very musical.

You might also think about a sub-eq package (Behringer/RS meter, outboard computer soundcard, free room eq wizard software...about $200 delivered) if you choose a sub under $1k delivered. It will make a big difference, far more than a one or two frequency filter included with some of these subs.

No bad choices in this highly competitive price range!

He has already stated he is not going over $1200 total in other threads.

Looking for mostly HT (also stated before), I'd say go for the SVS PB12-Plus or the VTF-3HO. Not much else when looking at no more than $1200 "total" that can deliver what these two do. (then again there are "some" subs that can deliver about twice the SPL for only about $200 more , but that's not an option)

Btw SMM, is that a enlcosed room (just doors leading to other rooms) or does it open into other areas?

oh, was thinking PC not PB ultra

Get 2 PB-10's, right meow.

SheepStar

Sheep said:

Get 2 PB-10's, right meow.

SheepStar

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Good call sheep. Co-located PB-10's will give you around 2-3dB more output above 25hz than the PB12-Plus. However, if the OP wants DEEP bass, a sub like the PB12-Plus (or quite a few others around the OP price range) will have a least as much output 22Hz and below depending on the sub. Some will have much more. Depends on what the OP wants.

I'd say it's an excellent alternative for 25Hz and above where most HT material is anyway.

2 subs vs. 1

To answer your question a single sub is usually easier to intigrate into the room, but the 12" SVS subs are big and heavy making them difficult to move.
Two smaller subs might give you more flexibilty for positioning but can also be tricky to integrate.

Your room is not that big, so you might consider starting with one sub and adding a second if necessary.

Also email SVS directly for their recommendations.

jcPanny said:

To answer your question a single sub is usually easier to intigrate into the room, but the 12" SVS subs are big and heavy making them difficult to move.
Two smaller subs might give you more flexibilty for positioning but can also be tricky to integrate.

Your room is not that big, so you might consider starting with one sub and adding a second if necessary.

Also email SVS directly for their recommendations.

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To add and clarify, co-located subs are not that hard to integrate, it's only if you choose to position them in different locations that it becomes a little tricky. That said you can also even out the bass repsonse with subs located strategically apart in a room. However, you also will lose a few dBs in SPL as opposed to co-located ones.

We are still waiting to hear if his room opens up into other areas, don't count on that room being a closed room, as most are not. If it's leaky (into other rooms), the bigger sub the better. Calling SVS would be good, but they are not the only ones that can deliver great bass for the money. I still think the PB12-Plus or Hsu VTF-3HO are his best bet especially to reach down low. Two PB-10's are also a good choice if response around around 20Hz and below is not as important.

Then again for $200 more than his budget, he could have the best of both worlds with a LOT more output at all frequencies and better SQ. Sorry to keep harping on that, but I just find it strange that when people are spending this kind of money, they stop short a couple hundred of having twice the output and better SQ than the subs being mentioned here (all that's needed is to save a little more $). On the other hand I should commend people that can do this, as they are standing by their "guns", and I do respect that. Which is why I'm making the recommendations I am, based on actually listening to variations of all subs mentioned here and many more.

Anyway, SMM you have more than enough info by now, or should. CALL SVS or Hsu and see what they say if you want a little more info. But ultimately you are just going to have to bite the bullet, and try something out in your room. You can get endless recommendations (usually the same ones at any given price point if you search the forums on the "net"). But only you know what your expectations are and what it will sound like in your room.

In the end I'm sure you will be happy with any of these choices, at least for awhile, until you get the "upgrade bug".

Good Luck,
Steve

Steve, which subs specifically are you talking about when you say you can get better SQ for $200 above his budget?

zonomorph said:

Steve, which subs specifically are you talking about when you say you can get better SQ for $200 above his budget?

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Earthquake MKV-15. Much better mid-bass response, no port noise, will NOT bottom out, just as accurate otherwise. And of course more SPL.

Now here is the LONG answer about SQ:

I've owned a few sealed subs in my day, and the MKV-15 equals them in SQ (most recently owned a ACI Force). I've have always had a problem with ported subs, and I've owned quite a few, including an earlier version of the PB12, and the VTF3 MK2 among others. When played loud, port noise has always bothered me for action flicks. Of course people just say, get more of them so you don't have to push it to its limits. Problem is I don't want to have to have a bunch of subs eating up floor space. Besides that, I can tell when a ported sub is playing on certain kick drum tracks compared to sealed or PR designs. I've done a little blind testing with some sealed designs (Force) and some Hsu and SVS models in particular, and on some tracks I could always tell when the ported subs were playing even at moderate levels. Of course on many music tracks the port "sound" was not noticable at all, but with good solid kick drums for someone who has been listening to music critically most of their life, it's pretty easy to hear the difference. That said some probably don't notice a difference at all or maybe even prefer that sound, and that's cool. I don't however, and that's why I probably will never own a ported sub again.
Different strokes for different folkes as in almost everything!

Now the MKV-15 is not a sealed design, but it does not have any ports either, and it sounds much better for music to me. Someone else on this forum mentioned he sold a MKV-15 for a DD-15, and now kinda wishes he did not sell it. With the advent of the SMS-1 he thinks it is on par with the DD-15 for music. Another guy on AVS said it sounds just as good as the DD-18 and the ML Descent. Yet another member on AVS says the MKV-15 sounds better for music than his Ultra (owns both), mostly because of the better Mid-bass response, though he also said it is "tighter" overall. Also, check this post where I mention someone else who sold their ACI Maestro for a MKV-15:
http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=169575&postcount=10

Some people say that the MKV-15 has high THD at the very lower freq. (below 20Hz). They should take the Klippel THD sensitivity test and see at what level they actually can hear THD. The vast majority are in the -12 to -18dB range, which means most people can't even hear the effects of THD with REAL program material (not test tones) until it reaches around 13-26% (even then it's questionable). Sure servo controlled subs like the DD series have lower THD, but can you actually hear the difference? Having heard them IMO, no. At least a couple others I know of that have actually heard the DD series and the MKV-15 agree. For one thing most bass in music is above 25Hz anyway. And at that freq. and above the MKV-15 is just as "clean". Not to mention, the MKV-15 will play louder as well at all freq. If people actually think they can hear say 20% THD at 15Hz in a real movie being played at over 100dB with a LOT of other different bass frequencies being played at the same time, they have another thing coming. Not to mention most subs can't even play that loud that low. The MKV-15 can play down to 10Hz (so what if it has high THD, how many subs are even going to make a "peep" down that low and it's all just for extra effects anyway) and believe me, you will notice the difference between it and other subs when playing movies like BHD, etc. (so I guess in this way you will notice a difference because other subs won't even produce much down this low compared to the MKV-15) I have played a 10Hz tone above 100dB through the MKV-15 and I hardly hear anything at all (ie: can't hear things like things rattling or tones that are a result from THD say at 20, 30, 40Hz etc.. But guess what? I FEEL it. And no matter how loud I play it with any sources, it never even sounds like it's going to "bottom-out", and never any port noise.

The MKV-15 has the advantages of the ported design in being able to play louder, the advantages of better SQ like the sealed design (IMHO as stated above), along with it's own PR (passive radiator) advantage of being able to do it all in a much smaller enclosure than either the ported design or sealed design (about 17" cubed for the Poly version).

If you have further questions just send a PM. I do not want to side track this thread any further, maybe I just should have kept my mouth shut anyway. Just seems to ruffle some peoples feathers when you compare subs, regardless if it's based on experience or not.

Steve

Steve42 said:

Good call sheep. Co-located PB-10's will give you around 2-3dB more output above 25hz than the PB12-Plus. However, if the OP wants DEEP bass, a sub like the PB12-Plus (or quite a few others around the OP price range) will have a least as much output 22Hz and below depending on the sub. Some will have much more. Depends on what the OP wants.

I'd say it's an excellent alternative for 25Hz and above where most HT material is anyway.

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Steve,

I don't know what your opinion of DEEP bass is, but the PB-10 is flat to 20Hz. In room measurements have shown output down to 15Hz +/-5dB.

Ground Plain


In room


2! PB-10s would have PLENTY of output in the low registers, that rarely get used. Plus, his room is 19 by 12, that is well within the PB-10s range.

SheepStar

Steve42 said:

He has already stated he is not going over $1200 total in other threads.

Looking for mostly HT (also stated before), I'd say go for the SVS PB12-Plus or the VTF-3HO. Not much else when looking at no more than $1200 "total" that can deliver what these two do. (then again there are "some" subs that can deliver about twice the SPL for only about $200 more , but that's not an option)

Btw SMM, is that a enlcosed room (just doors leading to other rooms) or does it open into other areas?

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Mainly enclosed, one 36" door way leading to another room. What subs are u refering to for $1400 that are twice as good?

Sheep said:

Steve,

I don't know what your opinion of DEEP bass is, but the PB-10 is flat to 20Hz. In room measurements have shown output down to 15Hz +/-5dB.

2! PB-10s would have PLENTY of output in the low registers, that rarely get used. Plus, his room is 19 by 12, that is well within the PB-10s range.

SheepStar

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Sheep,

I should have been more clear. I see you got those graphs from Ed Mullens review. My comparison in SPL came directly from the reviews Ed Mullen did of the PB-10 and the PB12Plus. I never said it would not have plenty of output, I just said that two would not have more than 1 PB12Plus below 25Hz. It's all realitve. I said it was a very good suggestion, and a good option. I was just trying to inform the OP on the choices that's all.

Btw, those graphs don't take into account the amp limited output at 20 and 22Hz which alows it to hit about 94 and 97dB respectively (if you read a little further down in his review it will show the amps limiter will limit the output at those frequencies). Still very good. Compared to the PB12Plus it takes two PB10's to hit that output that's all. And if you put the PB12Plus in 16Hz tune it has output below 20Hz where the PB10 does not. There are always trade-offs and options, like I said just trying to inform the OP.

As far as enough bass for that room, for most I would agree it would be plenty unless they want response below 20Hz (which many do). It may be enough for the OP, and it may not, only he can answer that. Having owned many subs, including a 12" SVS, for me the 2 PB10's would not be enough even in that size room. Then again, I'm a basshead. Different strokes.......

SMM said:

Mainly enclosed, one 36" door way leading to another room. What subs are u refering to for $1400 that are twice as good?

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I already covered that in a response above to zonomorph.