Subwoofer Review Help Needed

Ok first of all be gentle I am a noob and shopping for both new speakers and a subwoofer. I have been trying to read the posts & reviews instead of just posting a 'I have $xxxx what sub should I buy'.

Came accross this older review by John Johnson and want some help interperting the numbers.

I sounds like an impressive sub, they hit 120db @ 1 meter. Problem is I just do not know enough to properly translate the graphs.

Please help.

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_11_4/earthquake-supernova-mkv-subwoofer-10-2004.html

The Earthquake can, when in the right setting be a fantastic performer. Are there any specific questions ? From the graphs, it is low in distortion, hits 15 Hz, and plays REALLY loud.

Several guys have posted about in on AVS, and there seems to be positives there, too.

Like most people I want a sub that does it all. I listen to probably 50% music (Classical, Alternative, Heavy Metal, etc.) and 50% HT. I want a sub that is going to be fast, clean, tight, etc. I want good quality sound not just loud. Something that is going to provide good quality, earthshaking bass, and get out of the way.

I want a good return for my subwoofer dollar.

The issue is I have very limited placement options in my room. My placement options are basically under a window between two built in bookcases or on the opposite wall possible in a small corner. So I am looking for a sub that is relatively easy to set up given my constraints.

I guess the question really boils down to how this sub would stack up agains the ACI Titan, SVS Ultra, and HSU MKIII HO given the constraints of my room. Room size is 18x14x9 with four openings that can not be closed off. At some point the sub maybe moved to a dedicated HT 44x16x7, so I would like to be able to build on what ever sub I get.

That's definitely a high dollar sub compared to the others you've listed. If location is an issue, try auditioning the triple 10" ML Descent. It's pricey, but excellent IMO compared to others I've heard.

If you move to a room that large, you may need dual subs. Do you have a budget in mind?

I have been offered a price on the earthquake not much more than the other subs I listed. Ideally I would like to stay under $1500 but the ACI Maestro is very tempting. So while I would like to keep below $1500 it is a soft cap and I might just be tempted enough to move up to $2200.

I have no issues moving to a dual sub setup.

AMG_Roadster said:

I have been offered a price on the earthquake not much more than the other subs I listed. Ideally I would like to stay under $1500 but the ACI Maestro is very tempting. So while I would like to keep below $1500 it is a soft cap and I might just be tempted enough to move up to $2200.

I have no issues moving to a dual sub setup.

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If you can fit it, I'd go with a premium finish SVS Plus/2. It's huge, but you'd have to hear one to believe it. $1498 will fill just about any size room.

http://www.svsound.com/products-sub-box-plus2.cfm

brian32672 said:

That alone says a bundle, I would certainly give it a try.
You will not lose money on it.....

Very clean sub, IMO.....

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I concur, it has the finesse of quality sealed subs for music (I think it sounds about as good as a ACI Force I used to own), but will hit hard for HT! One of them will at the very least equal the Plus/2 in SPL (probably beter it by a couple dB), and have much better Mid-bass response. And it's only about 17" cubed. If you use a EQ like the SMS-1, you can make setup a lot easier in any room.

At that price give it a try in your room, and even compare it against others if you don't mind paying return shipping fees (because my guess is you might just return the others).

The other thought I had last night was maybe I just want to wait for awhile and see if a used Maestro comes up for sale. That would keep the sub in my target range.

So if you had the choice between a maestro & the earthquake which one would you get? Now how about if it is a new eathquake vs. a used maestro?

I DIY'd a somewhat similar sub. 15" Tumult driver and two 18" Acoustic Elegance Passive Radiators (PR) in a 200L Baltic Birch enclosure driven by a 1400 watt pro amp. The low end response is amazing --- good usable output to 10 Hz in a big basement room. One thing is that the group delay and impulse response of a PR sub is higher than even a vented sub. So sealed still may have an advantage for certain types of music (esp huge drums). The big debate amoung the sealed versus bass reflex advocates is that if the tuning frequency of the bass reflex is low enough (below 20 Hz) is it then equal for music performance to a sealed sub?

If you go sealed then I bet you need at least two huge subs (Maestro's) to get proper SPL in your room with large openings. One EQ MK-V may be enough.

Bob

AMG_Roadster said:

The other thought I had last night was maybe I just want to wait for awhile and see if a used Maestro comes up for sale. That would keep the sub in my target range.

So if you had the choice between a maestro & the earthquake which one would you get? Now how about if it is a new eathquake vs. a used maestro?

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AMG,

Interestly enough I just traded emails with someone who recently sold their Maestro on audiogon, about a month or two ago. I had sent him a question back when it was up for sale and I saved one of his return messages. I emailed him back a couple of days ago asking about his thoughts on the Maestro. He had some very interesting things to say that might interest you. I guess he actually used to frequent AVS quite a bit, but has not been over there for awhile. So he was wanting to get a smaller sub that had a built-in amp instead of the outboard one. He hemmed and hawwed though because he loved the Maestro so much, especially for music. I guess at some point he remembered someone recommending the Earthquake quite highly over at AVS and decided to give it a try and compare it to the Maestro. Having owned an earlier version of the 12" version of the EQ, he was a little skeptical though as to it's musical abilities.

Essentially what he came up with was this after comparing them side by side, the MKV-15 to his surprise was about 99% of what the Maestro was for music. In fact it was better on some selections than the Maestro, with Pop and Rock music in particular. Though I guess he is more into Jazz. This alone convinced him he could let go of the Maestro. But then he found out that the MKV-15 was much better for Movies than the Maestro, and that made it a no brainer for him. I guess it had a little more SPL but he says it's a more impactful sound especially in the mid-bass area, as well as more response down low under 20Hz.

Btw, his room is somewhere around 7000 cu. feet big and he says the MKV-15 fills it easily.

He did say that it was a little more difficult to setup than the Maestro, but after EQing it, he could not be more happy with it.

He also mentioned that the Maestro rarely goes up for sale used on audiogon. He was pretty sure his was the first in almost a year as far as he knew (though one has sold since then).

If I were you I'd buy the MKV-15 now if you can buy it from an authorized dealer (usually can be found for around $1400 delivered from many custom installers), or used if you can get it a lot cheaper. Then see if you like it after properly setting it up in your room. Remember to use the SMS-1 EQ if possible, it will make your life much easier.
Then if you still want a Maestro, wait for one to come up for sale used and see if you can even compare the two against eachother before you sell the other one. Both should be fairly easy to sell used.

My .02
Steve

bobgpsr said:

So sealed still may have an advantage for certain types of music (esp huge drums). The big debate amoung the sealed versus bass reflex advocates is that if the tuning frequency of the bass reflex is low enough (below 20 Hz) is it then equal for music performance to a sealed sub?

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Bob,

I can tell you that I have owned a few sealed subs, including the ACI Force, and the MKV-15 sounds equally good to me for music after being properly setup. Then again the PR on the MKV-15 is not your typical PR.
And it is tuned very low as well.

Steve42 said:

...the MKV-15 sounds equally good to me for music after being properly setup. Then again the PR on the MKV-15 is not your typical PR. And it is tuned very low as well.

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I will not argue that! My personal (listening experience) is that if you go low enough then music does not suffer from a bass reflex implementation. My DIY is tuned to Fb of 15 Hz and the 2.5 kg mms AE PRs have an Fs of 3.36 Hz and an Xmax of 38 mm (so they stay very linear).

The SLAPS PR has unique technology to keep it linear -- which should just keep the THD (and maybe IMD ) low. I used two 18" PRs with a large linear Xmax for the same reason.

And no port noise from PRs

Bob

bobgpsr said:

And no port noise from PRs

Bob

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Yeah, and that is a very sweet selling point in my book.

I've owned quite a few ported subs too, and when played loud, port noise has always bothered me for action flicks. Of course people just say, get more of them so you don't have to push it to its limits. Problem is I don't want to have to have a bunch of subs eating up floor space. Besides that, I can tell when a ported sub is playing on certain kick drum tracks compared to sealed or PR designs. I've done a little blind testing with some sealed designs (Force) and some Hsu and SVS models in particular, and on some tracks I could always tell when the ported subs were playing even at moderate levels. Of course on many music tracks the port "sound" was not noticable at all, but with good solid kick drums for someone who has listening to music critically most of their life, it's pretty easy to hear the difference. That said some probably don't notice a difference at all or maybe even prefer that sound, and that's cool. I don't however, and that's why I probably will never own a ported sub again.

Different strokes for different folkes as in almost everything!

Btw, that DIY sub you have sounds very impressive, I bet it sounds great!

Bob, your sub sounds like it is a beast. I had been considering specing out a DIY sub using the 18" Tumult sub. I have only done limited research but after looking at the price of the driver and all the calculations, plus having to use a friends tools to build the case I am thinking it may just be better to purchase.

Steve, I might just have to take your advice on the sub. While the current source of the Earthquake sub is cheaper than the $1400 price they are not an authorized and while guarnteing the sub for a year it might be a bit problomatic to return it if I am unhappy. I will have to look for a local dealer. What does the Earthquake look like in person? The pictures online make it look a bit cheap.

I will probably end up using the BFD (BFE?) to EQ the sub at least initially.

AMG,

The thing about buying it from an authorized "custom installer" (which is where you will get the best deal), you will likely not be able to return it either which is why they will give you such a great deal. Call Earthquake and get the names of some dealers in your area and see what you can find out. I know the dealer I got mine from will sell the Poly version for $1299 + shipping to anyone in the US.
The Poly version is the one I got. It has no grills to cover the drivers. It's just a standard industrial Polyurelane rough finish, but it's virtually impossible to scratch. My dealer and Earthquake had told me that the Poly version actually dampens the cabinet more (it's covered inside and out with it) and it's actually lighter than the other versions that don't use Poly and require thicker MDF.

The dealer I used only charges $80 more for the Black Ash and Cherry veneer finishes (real wood) though. And they come with cloth grills that cover the drivers. I don't mind the Poly finish myself. At about 17" (not including the drivers) cubed it's fairly small too.

Anyway, check with dealers in your area and go from there.

Good Luck,
Steve

AMG_Roadster said:

...I had been considering specing out a DIY sub using the 18" Tumult sub...

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We are not sure if the 18" Tumult is ever going to be available. I wanted to use it at first but gave up waiting. Kyle Richardson from Acoustic Visions told us it may never happen

Bob

Steve42 said:

AMG,

The thing about buying it from an authorized "custom installer" (which is where you will get the best deal), you will likely not be able to return it either which is why they will give you such a great deal. Call Earthquake and get the names of some dealers in your area and see what you can find out. I know the dealer I got mine from will sell the Poly version for $1299 + shipping to anyone in the US.
The Poly version is the one I got. It has no grills to cover the drivers. It's just a standard industrial Polyurelane rough finish, but it's virtually impossible to scratch. My dealer and Earthquake had told me that the Poly version actually dampens the cabinet more (it's covered inside and out with it) and it's actually lighter than the other versions that don't use Poly and require thicker MDF.

The dealer I used only charges $80 more for the Black Ash and Cherry veneer finishes (real wood) though. And they come with cloth grills that cover the drivers. I don't mind the Poly finish myself. At about 17" (not including the drivers) cubed it's fairly small too.

Anyway, check with dealers in your area and go from there.

Good Luck,
Steve

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I think the price I was given was just a little below the $1299 + shipping for the poly version. Looks wise I would prefer the Black Piano Gloss. Although if the sound quality is better on the cheaper version that is something in its favor. Only concern with the poly coating is that the sub will be visible and not sure the wife will be overly thrilled by the somewhat industrial look.

Bob thanks for the info on the Tumult.

AMG_Roadster said:

I think the price I was given was just a little below the $1299 + shipping for the poly version. Looks wise I would prefer the Black Piano Gloss. Although if the sound quality is better on the cheaper version that is something in its favor. Only concern with the poly coating is that the sub will be visible and not sure the wife will be overly thrilled by the somewhat industrial look.

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Go for the Black Ash or Cherry Veneer then. The dealer I know said he could deliver those versions for about $1379 + shipping (Not sure about the Piano Black, but I think it's a little more). I'm sure other dealers could do near the same.

I will have to check out my local dealers and see what they will do price wise. Ideally they will have at least one sub in house for me to check out.

Too bad Earthquake's website sucks for finding dealers.

AMG_Roadster said:

Too bad Earthquake's website sucks for finding dealers.

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Yeah, the only way is to call them direct. I would bet you that there is no way you will get near the $1299 price at a BM store. Your best bet is to find a authorized custom installer who can drop ship it to you, as they do not have to deal with the "over-head" that BM stores do. But I guess if you have a High end BM store that has one on demo, at least you can hear it in thier room. Don't count on it being properly setup though, which will make a huge difference especially for music.

Good Luck!