onkyo or pioneer

quick question which reciever would be a better option? onkyo 603 or the pioneer 1015. i can get the onkyo for 379 and the pioneer for 412 both shipped to my door. i am planning on adding amps later if i need to add power.

jbo247 said:

quick question which reciever would be a better option? onkyo 603 or the pioneer 1015. i can get the onkyo for 379 and the pioneer for 412 both shipped to my door. i am planning on adding amps later if i need to add power.

Click to expand...

You can get the 603 B Stock at Ubid for $289+s/h. The Pioneer 1015 would closer compare to the 8 series Onkyo, so if you have the cash, i'd recommend the 1015. You're comparing a 24lb receiver to a 34lb unit. Much larger power supply and heat sink in the pioneer.

Where in Ohio are you? Go Bucks!

arcadia ohio 5 mins from findlay hour south of toledo 2.5 hours north of columbus

I have not checked on their current models, but in the past, Onkyo did not include the original Dolby Pro Logic (DPL) on the models that had Dolby Pro Logic II (DPL II). Newer movies are generally made with Dolby Digital 5.1 (or EX) or DTS, but older movies for which one would use DPL or DPL II were made to be decoded with DPL. DPL II does additional processing aside from decoding. Now, many people don't care and prefer listening to DPL II for everything that was made for DPL, but if you want to be able to hear it decoded as originally intended, you need to have DPL. The Pioneer you mention has DPL, DPL II, and DPL IIx, so you can use whatever you want if you buy it.

I personally would not buy a surround receiver that did not have DPL, but many others don't mind not having it.

i noticed that the pioneer has thx select 2 not sure what that is or does but i think its for certain movies not a big expert on all of that other than i listen and tune by ear or if the movie has thx on the box i would use it

jbo247 said:

i noticed that the pioneer has thx select 2 not sure what that is or does but i think its for certain movies not a big expert on all of that other than i listen and tune by ear or if the movie has thx on the box i would use it

Click to expand...

thx is essentially two things. First, it is a certification of a certain level of quality; i.e., the pioneer meets the standards of quality necessary to be considered thx select 2. However, just because something is not thx certified, that does NOT mean that it does not meet those same standards of quality; the manufacturer may simply have wished to not spend the extra money to be certified by thx. Second, with a receiver, there are certain extra processing modes that thx specifies. So, it will have processing modes that non-thx receivers will lack. These processing modes are NOT extra formats; they are simply different ways of processing the sound. For more information, see:

http://www.thx.com/

Keep in mind that they are an interested party, and they make money when things are thx certified.

I personally would not buy based on that, but it does not hurt anything for it to be thx certified, even if you never use the thx processing features. (Extra, unused features do not hurt anything, unless they lead to confusion.)

TXH Select 2 Certification

Like the original THX Select specification, THX Select 2 encompasses a wide range of technologies that, together, deliver essential benefits to the discriminating home entertainment enthusiast. To be THX Select 2 certified, a home theater receiver must incorporate the following technologies and benefits:

Faithful sound reproduction

Re-equalization™ removes the edgy "brightness" of cinema sound, accurately adapting movie sound for home playback
Timbre Matching™ ensures a tonal match between front and surround speakers for smooth sound movement

Surround-sound spaciousness

Adaptive Decorrelation™ manages Mono Surround signals for a true stereo feel
Bass Management™ sends bass to subwoofers, delivering cinema-quality bass and allowing for smaller, easier-to-place speakers
Bass Peak Level Manager™ protects subwoofers from overload, ensuring trouble-free delivery of bass-heavy soundtracks

Optimum listening throughout the room

Loudspeaker Position Time Synchronization™ lets you set up your system for optimal "sweet-spot" listening anywhere in large or space-constrained rooms

Quick and easy setup

Guaranteed swift and seamless setup across all THX brands and components

Three content-specific performance modes
To further refine each specific type of entertainment experience, THX Select 2 provides three distinct modes to optimize performance based on source and content:

THX Select 2 Cinema Mode plays 5.1-channel movie soundtracks using all 8 (7.1) speakers, for a more immersive movie experience. THX Cinema Mode's ASA (Advanced Speaker Array) processing blends the side surround speakers and back-surround speakers, providing the optimal mix of ambient and directional surround sounds.

THX Music Mode optimizes the system's performance for the reproduction of multichannel music encoded in Dolby Digital and DTS 96/24 formats. In this mode, ASA processing is applied to the surround channels of 5.1-channel media, providing a wider, yet stable, rear soundstage.

New to the THX Select 2 certification, THX Games Mode optimizes reproduction of stereo and multichannel game audio. ASA processing is applied to the surround channels of all 5.1- and 2.0-channel sources (including analog, PCM, DTS and Dolby Digital encoding). The result is a fully enveloping 360-degree, 3-dimensional playback environment in which all sonic cues are accurately placed, and audio moves seamlessly and smoothly in all points of the surround field. THX Games Mode brings a whole new level of realism to your gaming experience.

Jbo, hope you don't mind me borrowing your thread.......I was looking at getting the Pioneer VSX-815, but if the Onkyo 603 B stock is roughly the same price would you reccomend the 603 over the 815? It would mainly be used for HT.

Thanks from a noob, but long time reader.

Rockets said:

Jbo, hope you don't mind me borrowing your thread.......I was looking at getting the Pioneer VSX-815, but if the Onkyo 603 B stock is roughly the same price would you reccomend the 603 over the 815? It would mainly be used for HT.

Thanks from a noob, but long time reader.

Click to expand...

You didn't ask me, but I'll respond anyway. The Pioneer VSX-815 is a great choice and I would pick it. What you should select depends on many things, such as what features you need or want. You can download the owner's manuals from the manufacturers web sites (Pioneer requires registration, but it is free). Then you can read about all of the features (and specifications) of both, and decide if one or the other has something that the other does not have that you want to have.

pyrrho one of my local a/v stores that do h/t installation said that onkyo would be better beause its watts per channel is more accurate than pioneer due to higher current does that sound true or is that not been proven? he also carries b&k and nad

Pioneer announced the release of a the VSX-816, although they haven't hit store shelves yet. May be worth waiting for if you are considering the 815. Looks like 10w more power per channel, although the weight dropped 2lbs. Seems to be a trend with newer receivers.

jbo247 said:

pyrrho one of my local a/v stores that do h/t installation said that onkyo would be better beause its watts per channel is more accurate than pioneer due to higher current does that sound true or is that not been proven? he also carries b&k and nad

Click to expand...

No, it does not sound true. It is the typical snooty opinion, in which the "lowly" Pioneer cannot be as good because it is not one of the more expensive brands. Even the lower Pioneer VSX-815 performs quite well; see:

Audioholics review:

http://www.audioholics.com/productreviews/avhardware/PioneerVSX-815ReceiverReview1.php

Sound and Vision Best of 2005 Awards:

http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/article.asp?section_id=7&article_id=1129&page_number=1

The Pioneer winning the award:

http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/article.asp?section_id=7&article_id=1156&page_number=1

The original article in which it is reviewed:

http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/article.asp?section_id=3&article_id=848&page_number=1

The page with the Pioneer:

http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/article.asp?section_id=3&article_id=848&page_number=4

The conclusion, in which the "lowly" Pioneer is considered BETTER than the more expensive, upscale Marantz:

http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/article.asp?section_id=3&article_id=848&page_number=5

The upper model Pioneer VSX-1015 is even better (which it should be, given that it costs more). You will have to get an amazingly great sale to get something better than one of these Pioneers at their price point.

Now, do you want actual good performance, or do you want to impress fools who judge by the name on the unit rather than how it actually sounds?

yeah i kinda figured that was the case, but here is where i'm stuck i'm looking at these recievers and it will be one of these three
yammy htr 5860($316),yammy htr 5990(looking to get off ebay brand new),pioneer vsx1015 ($412) is the yammy 5860 compareable to the pioneer i wouldn't mind saving 100 bucks and waiting couple years and get an elite pioneer for my in process projector room

The 1015 all the way.

I tested the HTR5860, I returned it and got the 1015.

Taifun said:

Pioneer announced the release of a the VSX-816, although they haven't hit store shelves yet. May be worth waiting for if you are considering the 815. Looks like 10w more power per channel, although the weight dropped 2lbs. Seems to be a trend with newer receivers.

Click to expand...

Cool Thanks.

I wonder if the 815 will be coming down in price after the 816 hits the shelves?

What turns me off from Pioneer receivers is their .2% rated THD. Is this not a big deal?

jbo247 said:

yeah i kinda figured that was the case, but here is where i'm stuck i'm looking at these recievers and it will be one of these three
yammy htr 5860($316),yammy htr 5990(looking to get off ebay brand new),pioneer vsx1015 ($412) is the yammy 5860 compareable to the pioneer i wouldn't mind saving 100 bucks and waiting couple years and get an elite pioneer for my in process projector room

Click to expand...

The Yamaha HTR-5860 is more like the Pioneer VSX-815 than the Pioneer VSX-1015, which is comparable with the Yamaha HTR-5890. The new HTR-5990 has HDMI and some interesting video processing that these others lack.

Now, having said which models compare with which others, I would rather own the comparable Yamaha receivers, but I would rather pay for the Pioneers. If it were my money, unless I got a great sale, I would go with the Pioneer VSX-1015 at its price point. Remember, I never said Pioneer is making the very best receivers that money can buy; I said that they are making great receivers for the money you need to pay for them. If you have money to burn, you should not be considering any of these receivers; a few thousand dollars will get you something better.

And, of course, a really good deal can throw off which one is best for the money; what matters is what you actually pay, not suggested retail or any other number.

Deathwish238 said:

What turns me off from Pioneer receivers is their .2% rated THD. Is this not a big deal?

Click to expand...

They rate it that way so they can claim 120 watts instead of a slightly lower number, since there are many who do not realize that a slight difference in power output will not be significant. What it means is that another receiver, rated into the same impedance and the same frequency/frequencies, that is said to have only 0.05% THD at 120 watts is likely a bit more powerful. This is because, generally speaking, when reaching the limits of power output, distortion increases. They also play with numbers by changing the frequencies that are under consideration. Yamaha, for example, advertises their HTR-5990 as having 140 watts per channel, but the virtually identical RX-V1600 is rated as having only 120 watts per channel. It turns out that they are giving you the power output at 1kHz for the HTR-5990, and the power output from 20-20kHz for the RX-V1600. If you consult the manual, you will find that the HTR-5990 is rated at 120 watts from 20-20kHz, just like the RX-V1600. They have the same power amp, but are rated differently in advertisements, because they sell the HTR line in stores where the customer is likely to know nothing about power output and think 140 watts is better than 120 watts, having no clue that stating power output without also specifying impedance, frequency, and distortion, is practically meaningless.

I'm almost certain the Pioneer Elite VSX52 is a twin of the 1015. The Elite 52 rates out at 110x2, 20-20,000, 8 ohms, at .09 THD. Interestingly enough, the Elite 54 contains the exact same specs as the Elite 52 and 1015, but weighs in at over 39lbs. The monster Elite 56 again, same specs, but jumps in weight to 44lbs.

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pna/product/detail/0,,2076_4155_123728223_tab=B,00.html?compName=PNA_ProductDetailComponent

If you look at pg. 75 in the 1015 manual, it's the exact same rating listed under "total harmonic distortion."

The figure of .09 is closer to Yamaha's RXV series ratings of .05. Power output will continue to climb, but THD also climbs fairly quickly at the poles of the Hz range. This is why sometimes you'll see the 1kHz rating instead of full bandwidth of 20-20,000Hz. Pioneer, if they wanted to, could state a 150x2, 1kHz, 6 ohms, at 1% THD.

The Yamaha 5890 can state 140x2, 1kHz, 8 ohms, at .7% THD. The 5990 has no such specs in the manual. Basically, the Yamaha has a slight edge over the 1015 - but probably not audible. It's nice to see they've stuck to an 8ohm rating and lower THD at 1kHz. The 5890 specs are 120x2, 20-20kHz, 8 ohms, and .04 THD (identical to the 5990).

What you'll find that varies more than wattage figures are features and the mass of the unit. It's odd to see all the Pioneer units list the same power output, but vary in weight up to 10lbs. You'll see this in HK AVR's. Big weight, but conservative output ratings. The more weight, the larger the power supply, the larger the heat sink, in turn the cooler the unit runs, and the longer the unit will last if pushed to its limits.

Don't beat yourself up. Find a great deal on one of the units listed in this thread, and enjoy the music.

wow thanks a lot for the explanation guys. That makes perfect sense and brings Pioneer into a new light...