Please Help! Perfect great room surround sound?

S

Striker1980

Audiophyte
Hi there, I need Help Planning a 5.4.1or2 Dolby Atmos system. Im building a new house with a great room that measures 17'x20'10" with a gas insert centered in it. The Back is open to the dinning room and a large kitchen. The ceiling is vaulted. I had originally planned on using my old equipment speakers.
Which include:
Energy C-9 front left and right
Energy C-C1 center
Energy Take 5.2
2 Energy S10.2 Subs
I will still be able to use my AV and AMP with anything new that i get:
Marantz SR7010
Emotiva XPA3 GEN 3 Amplifier
I believe we will be putting our tv above the fireplace but i could be convinced to put onto the builtins on either side of the fireplace. I am thinking now that my current equipment will not work so i need help with some ideas on new speakers and placement! What Should I do! I really like sound for both music and movies. Here is a link to the home https://houseplans.co/house-plans/22156/ Alan Mascord Halstad plan 22156. I have a 70" brand new samsung flat screen. I don't really want to lower the mantle too much or it might look weird. Please help!
 
S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Staff member
If your room is going to be like fireplace room in that picture, that is a nightmare scenario. Mounting the TV above the fireplace will be way too high to ever comfortably view it for more than 10 seconds, at least if you are not standing up. The built ins on the sides ... well, such a setup might be fine for watching the nightly news, but I wouldn't try to try to push it beyond that. Such a placement would only be good for casual viewing. I would not want to lose myself in a movie on a system like that, it would be so badly compromised. A 70" TV is too big to fit anywhere in there unobtrusively.

My advice is, if you really like movies or listening to music, turn one of the upstairs bedrooms into a dedicated media room or home theater room. Let the great room be for relaxing, socializing, etc. Don't clutter it with audio / video equipment.
 
S

Striker1980

Audiophyte
Its just unrealistic for us to use the upstairs as media room. The center of the house is downstairs next to the kitchen and that is where the main media space needs to be. the fireplace will go on the ground and i will lower the mantle as much as possible without it looking weird. I will angle the tv downward and the couches will be back like 12ft.
 
WaynePflughaupt

WaynePflughaupt

Audioholic Samurai

Like Striker said, mantle TVs are too typically high. The issue is having to continually crane your neck looking upwards. However, this can be alleviated with enough distance from the screen. A 70” TV is pretty big, and 12 ft. is probably too close for a TV that size anyway. So you can “win-win” by sitting further back, maybe 17-18 ft, especially if you can get the fireplace and mantle lower like you said.

With those built-ins, your current floor-standing speakers probably won’t work, at least not aesthetically. You’ll probably want some bookshelf speakers that can sit in the built-in cabinetry. Probably want to go with a physically smaller center channel speaker as well. Subs will probably be best stacked in the far left hand corner

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt
 
KEW

KEW

Audioholic Overlord
One way to deal with a "too high" TV is reclining furniture...

Try to get the TV in the right position in the first place. Recliners are not a great solution because some times you want to be able to sip bourbon and it's hard when you are on your back (or use you lap as a table while sorting through mail, etc.) You get the point.
 
S

Striker1980

Audiophyte
Like Striker said, mantle TVs are too typically high. The issue is having to continually crane your neck looking upwards. However, this can be alleviated with enough distance from the screen. A 70” TV is pretty big, and 12 ft. is probably too close for a TV that size anyway. So you can “win-win” by sitting further back, maybe 17-18 ft, especially if you can get the fireplace and mantle lower like you said.

With those built-ins, your current floor-standing speakers probably won’t work, at least not aesthetically. You’ll probably want some bookshelf speakers that can sit in the built-in cabinetry. Probably want to go with a physically smaller center channel speaker as well. Subs will probably be best stacked in the far left hand corner

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt
 
S

Striker1980

Audiophyte
I'm now considering moving the fireplace slightly to the left in order to maybe center the media space and fireplace together for the space. That way the seating area would be centered to the room and both the fireplace and media space would be the main focus not just either or! Is this a bad idea to have a non centered fireplace? My budget for speakers would probably be around 5-8k.
 
S

Striker1980

Audiophyte
Oops I meant to say move fireplace slightly to the right and the tv to the left of the firplace.
 
Audiosaur

Audiosaur

Audioholic
Viewing over-mantle displays has literally been a pain in the neck for me many times; it’s just not a natural angle. I swore never to do it.

Now, as it turns out, over the mantle is truly the only option in my new townhouse now under construction. The pull-down mount @DigitalDawn notes is the solution I'm going with, although I ordered the less expensive version. Pull it down to watch, push it back up and out of the way when finished.
 
S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Staff member
I'm now considering moving the fireplace slightly to the left in order to maybe center the media space and fireplace together for the space. That way the seating area would be centered to the room and both the fireplace and media space would be the main focus not just either or! Is this a bad idea to have a non centered fireplace? My budget for speakers would probably be around 5-8k.
You have to choose where to orient the seating. Do you want the focus of the room to be the fireplace or the TV? If you choose the fireplace, it makes TV watching awkward. There is no way around this. Also, having the TV stuffed back in a nook doesn't leave any good places for speakers. If that is the case, don't bother investing in expensive speakers, you will not be able to get a good sound from them no matter what.

Regarding placing the TV on the fireplace, tilting the TV does not help the problem there at all. The problem is the angle that you have to crane your head at in order to watch the TV. It doesn't take long for that angle of viewing to become uncomfortable. You need to get that TV low. Imagine having to sit at the front row of a movie theater every time you went. Look up optimum viewing angles for TV watching.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
I consider myself an old hand at this. Great rooms like that are just not suitable for multi channel HT. Do not even try. In fact most domestic spaces are not suitable for surround HT, and would be better off 2.1 or 3.1. With that space you will get much better results with 2.1 or 3.1.

Great rooms are gathering spaces. Multi channel HT needs a dedicated space. Does that home have a basement?

Do not put a TV over or near a fireplace, unless you have in your budget frequent TV replacement. Heat is an electronics killer. The mount will solve the viewing angle, but not the heat, unless your fireplace is to be only for decoration and you will never use it. For new construction all fireplaces need to be condensing type and high efficiency, and will produce a lot of heat. They also produce condensate now and have to be connected to the plumbing, just like a furnace. Traditionally insert fireplaces have sent more heat up the chimney than into the room, but no more, the EPA have seen to that.

Your TV needs to be a along way away from any new type fireplace.

In a living/dining/kitchen type situation I would never put in HT and probably not even a TV.

This is what great room spaces are for.







Full blown HT takes a dedicated space.





We do have a 2.1 system in our downstairs great room.



But it is a long way from the fireplace.



In our little town home we have a living room that opens up to everywhere. The AV 3.1 is opposite to the fireplace.



So in a nutshell. if you want AV in that room build a nice 2.1 or 3.1 system away from the fireplace. Trying to put in a surround system will be a waste of time effort and money.

In any event you could make a 2.1 or 3.1 system with better speakers sound an lot better than the system you have now and a lot neater.

Since this is new construction you can neatly build everything in. New construction provides you with pretty much unlimited possibilities for neat integrated design. So use your imagination.

The 2.0 system in our previous home, which was new construction.



Lastly good sound is not determined by the number channels beyond 2, but by the quality of the speakers, electronics and implementation. These solutions allow for the use of much larger and capable speakers, and still have good cosmetic design and WAF. Now construction should allow for innovation to achieve optimal acoustic and architectural results.

It is your home change the floor plan anyway you want. It is not the builders home. In any event they seldom are masters of superb design, and are usually severely lacking in architectural skills. Control and lead them with a very firm hand.
 
DigitalDawn

DigitalDawn

Senior Audioholic
I don't know if you have considered in wall speakers or even InCeiling speakers. Triad makes excellent products in both categories. They will even color match the grills to match your wall or ceiling paint.

For your size room you could go with Bronze LCRs or even Silver LCRs. www.triadspeakers.com
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
I don't know if you have considered in wall speakers or even InCeiling speakers. Triad makes excellent products in both categories. They will even color match the grills to match your wall or ceiling paint.

For your size room you could go with Bronze LCRs or even Silver LCRs. www.triadspeakers.com
The problem is his speakers are there.

These sort of requests are a nightmare. As usual we have no idea how the speakers are wired or where the wiring terminates. These types of homes are just bad news.

If you buy a home with a bunch of speakers, pull them out and have the holes professionally filled and painted over, so you never know they were there.
 
S

Striker1980

Audiophyte
So any suggestions on Speaker placement and or specific speakers that would be good fit for this room. Tv is going to the left of the fireplace. We are doing a big sectional that i will do my best to center to both the fireplace and the tv area. I will need ceiling speakers and perhaps some wall speakers or mountable speakers for the fronts. We will do a small thin table directly behind the couch so i think i can get some small bookshelf speakers to sit on it directly behind the seating area. I think i really like the idea of mounting some front left and right speakers and a center channel. So what kind of wall mountables are out there?
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
So any suggestions on Speaker placement and or specific speakers that would be good fit for this room. Tv is going to the left of the fireplace. We are doing a big sectional that i will do my best to center to both the fireplace and the tv area. I will need ceiling speakers and perhaps some wall speakers or mountable speakers for the fronts. We will do a small thin table directly behind the couch so i think i can get some small bookshelf speakers to sit on it directly behind the seating area. I think i really like the idea of mounting some front left and right speakers and a center channel. So what kind of wall mountables are out there?
Do NOT use ceiling speakers for the fronts.

Make sure your system is well to the left of the fireplace. Heat kills more so when the electronic is in use, but it is far from innocuous even when off, for instance it is hard on caps even in the off times. Electronics should always be as far away from sources of heat as possible. That is part of the basics of good design.

I would go for B & W in walls if you don't want speakers in the room. Just put together a good 3.1 and a good sub. That will give you the best results in that room.

Good looking free standing speakers from the likes of Salk will still give you the best results. Your wife needs to get over speakers and size. Speakers can be exotic pieces of furniture in their own right.

You have a big space there. Forget mountable speakers. You need speakers with some real balls for that space.
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Slumlord
IMO "perfect sound" and in wall/ceiling speakers shouldn't be in the same conversation. It's aesthetics or sound quality. To have both is difficult and sometimes very expensive.
 
BoredSysAdmin

BoredSysAdmin

Audioholic Slumlord
DigitalDawn

DigitalDawn

Senior Audioholic
Folks,

Triad InCeiling speakers are very different than most others.

Keep in mind, that Triad speakers within a series (Bronze, Silver, Gold etc) are designed to sound the same -- cabinet characteristics, driver placement, and the crossover are all adjusted to make each speaker sonically identical. So, for example, InRoom, InWall, OnWall, and even InCeiling speakers should match one another within a series.

http://www.triadspeakers.com/products/home-cinema/ic-bronze8-lcr/
 
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