Audioquest Midnight -- anyone know the actual awg?

[music4cities]

Does anyone know what the actual AWG for these are? or have experience with them? I am not a cable mystic in any way. Blue jeans cable is my go to interconnect and speaker vendor. I do have a pair of Kimber 4PR as well.

I was gifted this pair of Audioquest Midnight cables by my father, along with a pair of speakers.

The cables are longer than I need, each must be at least 25' long. I shudder to think about how much they cost new...

But I'm thinking the actual copper in this cable is also far too high a gauge for that length.

I was reterminating one because the spade had come off and was amazed by their magical voodoo "hyperlitz" construction. On the outside Each conductor appears to be 10AWG, but inside there is a solid plastic core (no doubt a rare unobtainum), around which the copper conductors wrap. As a result you loose at least half the actual thickness. My kimber 4PR or Bluejeans Belden are at least twice as thick when it comes to actual copper. This struck me as the equivalent of a sausage with about 30% actual meat and 70% fillers b by the time one adds in the super thick "Midnight" blue hose the conductors go in. Maybe they are hyper warped spiraled inside that blue sleeve as well, creatinga wormhole of acoustical space-time. Or something.

Anyway, I am going to cut these down in length but I am wondering if even 10' is too long for the actual gauge...whatever it is.

Also, what about this geometry/Constuction? Solid engineering (if deceptively thin copper) or ill conceived? I get the principle behind Kimber's braided geometry, so maybe there is some scientific basis for this one?

Or shall I'll just use my other cables and sell these nutty things.

Thanks

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

But I'm thinking the actual copper in this cable is also far too high a gauge for that length.
Thanks

No such thing as too high of gauge. If you could use it (fit the both connectors - amp and speaker side) then it's fine.
Cable could be of too low AWG - and it depends on it's length: more info here:
http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm

If it's too long for you, just look for maximum length table.

You could also use caliper tool to measure it yourself and convert it's thickness to awg according to this table:
https://www.tedpella.com/company_html/wire-gauge-vs-dia.htm

 

[Irvrobinson]

The geometry is what Audioquest calls "hyperlitz", and the stranded conductors wrap around the plastic tube to reduce skin effect. The only way to get better BS is with a real bull. Terminating them is a PITA, and I recommend giving them away to some misguided person unmolested, and using 12 gauge zip cord from Home Depot instead.

 

[music4cities]

Sorry for my confusion on gauge- my fault, by higher gauge I meant higher awg number hence thinner. Forgot the proper nomenclature.

Will measure and look it up. thanks for that link.

I bet any improvement from biwiring would likely be from the shorter cable more than anything else.

I threw my kimbers and bluejeans belden on and there is increase in higher frequencies. which indicate there is a problem of some sort with the audioquest. Heck I plugged just hooked the amp and speakers into my houses in wall wiring ( 10 or 12 AWG belden) and the treble is the same as the Kimber and bjc (i.e. louder than the audioquest ) and that's at least a 40' run.

Lol. Audioquest

 

[music4cities]

The geometry is what Audioquest calls "hyperlitz", and the stranded conductors wrap around the plastic tube to reduce skin effect. The only way to get better BS is with a real bull. Terminating them is a PITA, and I recommend giving them away to some misguided person unmolested, and using 12 gauge zip cord from Home Depot instead.

Skin effect! Of course. Lol.

I guess I could get a decent amount for them. Probably more for two pairs at half the length than one pair at this length. Lol.

Ethically I would have a problem selling them for much more than the equivalent gauge zip cord however. Ok maybe a bit of a premium for cool blue rubber hose look.

Plus I couldn't break it to my father.

I re terminated them by stripping about an inch of wire, clipping that center plastic core off, and folding back and twisting the wire on itself.

Fyi, I was also somewhat shocked by how craptastic the factory or store (who knows) termination was. Very little to no strain relief. Thin spades. No wonder the thin wire broke from metal fatigue.

 

[music4cities]

No such thing as too high of gauge. If you could use it (fit the both connectors - amp and speaker side) then it's fine.
Cable could be of too low AWG - and it depends on it's length: more info here:
http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm

If it's too long for you, just look for maximum length table.

You could also use caliper tool to measure it yourself and convert it's thickness to awg according to this table:
https://www.tedpella.com/company_html/wire-gauge-vs-dia.htm

My best approximation is that the actual copper is about 20-22 AWG. No caliper tool handy but I used a wire stripper on the tightly wound strands and passed through the 20-22 AWG slot without stripping any strands off. It may be 18AWG....if I am generous...

Using the chart linked to above and the 30' cable length these maybe squeak by at 18AWG at 8ohms and are way too long at 20AWG at 8ohm. At 6ohm forget about it...so under real loading conditions it's likely well beyond capacity.

I also would be interested to know the capacitance of this cable. My hunch is that it's high. Too High.

 

[music4cities]

Found this diagram on the audioquest cable " archive" website.

Of course they do not list the capacatence or other stats. Just this diagram. And it seems almost deliberately misleading by labeling the wire total width as 10AWG.

Silliness

 

[Speedskater]

Lets see:
10AWG = 5.24 mm²

Four 21AWG 0.41 * 4 = 1.64 mm²
Four 19AWG 0.65 * 4 = 2.60 mm²
Six 17AWG 1.04 * 6 = 6.24 mm²

Total = 10.48 /2 = 5.24 mm²

Yep, all those silly little conductors do add up.

 

[shadyJ]

I also would be interested to know the capacitance of this cable. My hunch is that it's high. Too High.

Some of the nicer multimeters can measure a cable's capacitance.

I can't believe how bad this cable is vs the price. How do you screw up designing a speaker cable? How?!

 

[Speedskater]

Capacitance and (of course) loop inductance will depend on how you connect all those 14 conductors.
7 left hand to plus and 7 right hand to minus = low capacitance and high loop inductance.
Every other conductor to + = high capacitance and low loop inductance.
It's a very large diameter cable so either way capacitance will be low considering it totals two 10AWG conductors.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

Some of the nicer multimeters can measure a cable's capacitance.

I can't believe how bad this cable is vs the price. How do you screw up designing a speaker cable? How?!

But the "Skin Effects" !!!

 

[j_garcia]

Lets see:
10AWG = 5.24 mm²

Four 21AWG 0.41 * 4 = 1.64 mm²
Four 19AWG 0.65 * 4 = 2.60 mm²
Six 17AWG 1.04 * 6 = 6.24 mm²

Total = 10.48 /2 = 5.24 mm²

Yep, all those silly little conductors do add up.

Add up to $$ not a difference in sound

 

[bh72]

I have used the AQ Midnight (+) for some time, and I find the tone here in this forum quite funny to say the least. I can hardly imagine el cheapo zip wire would sound remotely as good as the AQ-M.
Rearranging the 14 wires as you like might not only change inductance and capacitance but also another thing: the return wires are coated in a sheath that contains some amount of carbon particles, and according to AQ this reduces the pick up of EMI (and connecting the poles in inverted position on both speaker and amp confirms that there is something to it). In turn, this means you cannot connect the wires in a zig zag pattern to maximise cap and minimise inductance as this would (nearly) short the conductors (or the amp output stage). in reality there is a ca 60 ohm remaining resistance between the individual return (-) conductors of the cable, so probably not too bad, but if you carelessly connect a few in parallel you might have another complex and very relevant impedance (the cable) next to your speaker.
Anyway I found the cable to be remarkably clear and well resolved, rather comparable to the PR8 of Kimber, but more begning with its higher inducatance and WAY lower capacitanc, also more balanced, i.e not too much treble, not too little, well balanced mids, and quite a strong foundation (bass). Waayy better than any cheap cable I've used before.

 

[everettT]

I have used the AQ Midnight (+) for some time, and I find the tone here in this forum quite funny to say the least. I can hardly imagine el cheapo zip wire would sound remotely as good as the AQ-M.
Rearranging the 14 wires as you like might not only change inductance and capacitance but also another thing: the return wires are coated in a sheath that contains some amount of carbon particles, and according to AQ this reduces the pick up of EMI (and connecting the poles in inverted position on both speaker and amp confirms that there is something to it). In turn, this means you cannot connect the wires in a zig zag pattern to maximise cap and minimise inductance as this would (nearly) short the conductors (or the amp output stage). in reality there is a ca 60 ohm remaining resistance between the individual return (-) conductors of the cable, so probably not too bad, but if you carelessly connect a few in parallel you might have another complex and very relevant impedance (the cable) next to your speaker.
Anyway I found the cable to be remarkably clear and well resolved, rather comparable to the PR8 of Kimber, but more begning with its higher inducatance and WAY lower capacitanc, also more balanced, i.e not too much treble, not too little, well balanced mids, and quite a strong foundation (bass). Waayy better than any cheap cable I've used before.

Here is a measurement AQ vs a generic speaker cable. At $600 you can purchase a lot of music instead.

Audioquest GO-4 Speaker Cable Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the AudioQuest GO-4 speaker cable. It is on kind loan from a member and costs about US $599. The attached dongle is a 72 volt battery supply that feeds an unterminated wire the length of the cable. Different terminations can be ordered. Here are...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[j_garcia]

I have used the AQ Midnight (+) for some time, and I find the tone here in this forum quite funny to say the least. I can hardly imagine el cheapo zip wire would sound remotely as good as the AQ-M.
Rearranging the 14 wires as you like might not only change inductance and capacitance but also another thing: the return wires are coated in a sheath that contains some amount of carbon particles, and according to AQ this reduces the pick up of EMI (and connecting the poles in inverted position on both speaker and amp confirms that there is something to it). In turn, this means you cannot connect the wires in a zig zag pattern to maximise cap and minimise inductance as this would (nearly) short the conductors (or the amp output stage). in reality there is a ca 60 ohm remaining resistance between the individual return (-) conductors of the cable, so probably not too bad, but if you carelessly connect a few in parallel you might have another complex and very relevant impedance (the cable) next to your speaker.
Anyway I found the cable to be remarkably clear and well resolved, rather comparable to the PR8 of Kimber, but more begning with its higher inducatance and WAY lower capacitanc, also more balanced, i.e not too much treble, not too little, well balanced mids, and quite a strong foundation (bass). Waayy better than any cheap cable I've used before.

You can read this one and see if it has a tone:

Speaker Wire

A 6-page article by Laurence Greenhill titled "Speaker Cables: Can You Hear the Difference?" was published in Stereo Review magazine on August 1983. It compared Monster cable, 16-gauge wire and 24-gauge wire. The price at that time for a pair of 30-foot lengths of monster cables was $55.00. The cost for 16 gauge heavy lamp cord was $.30/foot or $18.00 and the 24 gauge "speaker wire" was $.03/foot or $1.80

"...So what do our fifty hours of testing, scoring and listening to speaker cables amount to? Only that 16-gauge lamp cord and Monster cable are indistinguishable from each other with music and seem to be superior to the 24 gauge wire commonly sold or given away as 'speaker cable.' Remember, however, that it was a measurable characteristic--higher resistance per foot--that made 24 gauge sound different from the other cables. If the cable runs were only 6 instead of 30 feet, the overall cable resistances would have been lower and our tests would probably have found no audible differences between the three cables. This project was unable to validate the sonic benefits claimed for exotic speaker cables over common 16-gauge zip cord. We can only conclude, therefore, that there is little advantage besides pride of ownership in using these thick, expensive wires"

 

[TLS Guy]

I have used the AQ Midnight (+) for some time, and I find the tone here in this forum quite funny to say the least. I can hardly imagine el cheapo zip wire would sound remotely as good as the AQ-M.
Rearranging the 14 wires as you like might not only change inductance and capacitance but also another thing: the return wires are coated in a sheath that contains some amount of carbon particles, and according to AQ this reduces the pick up of EMI (and connecting the poles in inverted position on both speaker and amp confirms that there is something to it). In turn, this means you cannot connect the wires in a zig zag pattern to maximise cap and minimise inductance as this would (nearly) short the conductors (or the amp output stage). in reality there is a ca 60 ohm remaining resistance between the individual return (-) conductors of the cable, so probably not too bad, but if you carelessly connect a few in parallel you might have another complex and very relevant impedance (the cable) next to your speaker.
Anyway I found the cable to be remarkably clear and well resolved, rather comparable to the PR8 of Kimber, but more begning with its higher inducatance and WAY lower capacitanc, also more balanced, i.e not too much treble, not too little, well balanced mids, and quite a strong foundation (bass). Waayy better than any cheap cable I've used before.

Oh Hell, another nutter has wondered in. I'm not in the mood for that at present.

 

[lovinthehd]

I have used the AQ Midnight (+) for some time, and I find the tone here in this forum quite funny to say the least. I can hardly imagine el cheapo zip wire would sound remotely as good as the AQ-M.
Rearranging the 14 wires as you like might not only change inductance and capacitance but also another thing: the return wires are coated in a sheath that contains some amount of carbon particles, and according to AQ this reduces the pick up of EMI (and connecting the poles in inverted position on both speaker and amp confirms that there is something to it). In turn, this means you cannot connect the wires in a zig zag pattern to maximise cap and minimise inductance as this would (nearly) short the conductors (or the amp output stage). in reality there is a ca 60 ohm remaining resistance between the individual return (-) conductors of the cable, so probably not too bad, but if you carelessly connect a few in parallel you might have another complex and very relevant impedance (the cable) next to your speaker.
Anyway I found the cable to be remarkably clear and well resolved, rather comparable to the PR8 of Kimber, but more begning with its higher inducatance and WAY lower capacitanc, also more balanced, i.e not too much treble, not too little, well balanced mids, and quite a strong foundation (bass). Waayy better than any cheap cable I've used before.

Then imagine how funny we find your nonsense. Lol listening to wire....

 

[Trebdp83]

Ooph! Somebody slap a "Do not ride if you are pregnant or have a heart condition" on this thread.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Haha! Men-tuhl!!!!!

 

[mtrycrafts]

Here is a measurement AQ vs a generic speaker cable. At $600 you can purchase a lot of music instead.

Audioquest GO-4 Speaker Cable Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the AudioQuest GO-4 speaker cable. It is on kind loan from a member and costs about US $599. The attached dongle is a 72 volt battery supply that feeds an unterminated wire the length of the cable. Different terminations can be ordered. Here are...

www.audiosciencereview.com

But, but, but, is that midnight the same as the Go4?