Need help with amplifier for Yamaha rxa 860

[Tankman]

Also I have a chance to pick up a Yamaha rxa 3040 for $800 would there be that much of a difference in sound quality and over all punch between the 860 than the 3040? I am just wondering if it would be enough of a difference to justify buying.

You will have a lil more headroom after all the 3040 is a flagship unit.

 

[Puglover]

You will have a lil more headroom after all the 3040 is a flagship unit.

Do you think I would be better off buying a good subwoofer and keeping the 860? I would be out the same amount of money either way. Since I have the 860 already, I am thinking that is the way to go, keeping what I have and getting a subwoofer.

 

[Tankman]

Do you think I would be better off buying a good subwoofer and keeping the 860? I would be out the same amount of money either way. Since I have the 860 already, I am thinking that is the way to go, keeping what I have and getting a subwoofer.

No doubt subwoofer will help with a better overall soundstage. In a 2.1 set for music it fills in the low end and will add punch. Some like to run their sub a lil hot when playing music it all depends on the source. Some older rock pop music didn't have a lot of bass in the recorded source. But if your speakers are Towers they will enjoy the lil more headroom from the larger power supply and large caps in a flagship AVR. They both have preamp outs you could stay put with your 860 add a amp and sub if thats you kind of thing. With this hobby there are tons of ways to enjoy it. Advice like anything else should be taken with a grain of salt. Keep researching if at all possible try to audition speakers, subs, even AVR's and amps at a brick and mortar store if possible. Anything else just make sure whoever you order from has a 30 to 60 day return policy.

Mike

 

[Puglover]

No doubt subwoofer will help with a better overall soundstage. In a 2.1 set for music it fills in the low end and will add punch. Some like to run their sub a lil hot when playing music it all depends on the source. Some older rock pop music didn't have a lot of bass in the recorded source. But if your speakers are Towers they will enjoy the lil more headroom from the larger power supply and large caps in a flagship AVR. They both have preamp outs you could stay put with your 860 add a amp and sub if thats you kind of thing. With this hobby there are tons of ways to enjoy it. Advice like anything else should be taken with a grain of salt. Keep researching if at all possible try to audition speakers, subs, even AVR's and amps at a brick and mortar store if possible. Anything else just make sure whoever you order from has a 30 to 60 day return policy.

Mike

Will do. Thanks for the advice. I really appreciate it, Jon

 

[Tankman]

Will do. Thanks for the advice. I really appreciate it, Jon

Your welcome Jon, Just to let you or anyone else know I have No back ground in audio engineering or have I ever stepped foot in a recording studio. My advice like anyone else's advice is like, take what you want from it and leave the rest that's the grain of salt thing. Advice from audiophiles, engineers , professional engineer who has been in a recording studio and even from Dealers who sell gear that to should be applied. Many of these sites have Dealers, and people are associated with dealers hangout in them who can and do sway gear and there is nothing wrong with that after all it is a open Market so to speak with these forums. The ole timers are a great source of information for tips to pick up from and many of them have high end gear and do recommend high end gear a lot sometimes again nothing wrong with that. But some like to twist common sense, just use good judgement research as much as you can. Good audio/video setups can be had for not a lot of bucks..

Mike

 

[lovinthehd]

Also I have a chance to pick up a Yamaha rxa 3040 for $800 would there be that much of a difference in sound quality and over all punch between the 860 than the 3040? I am just wondering if it would be enough of a difference to justify buying.

The difference in power isn't very significant, difference in the avrs is more along the lines of features/connectivity rather than sound quality. Punch not sure what you think the avr is going to provide in that respect, the little extra power wouldn't make much difference, about 1.5 dB. I wouldn't buy the higher model of avr instead of a sub unless there are features in the 3040 you want.

 

[Pogre]

I took the same advice from the same person (HD) as one of my first upgrades when I joined this forum. He was right, and I was surprised at how much a good sub can improve your entire system. It's more than just adding bass. A good sub can make a huge difference alone.

It's not unusual for a large chunk of an audio budget go to the sub(s). I went from almost insisting I needed a new receiver to spending over $1700 on a pair of subs. No regrets.

 

[Hetfield]

I took the same advice from the same person (HD) as one of my first upgrades when I joined this forum. He was right, and I was surprised at how much a good sub can improve your entire system. It's more than just adding bass. A good sub can make a huge difference alone.

It's common for a large chunk of an audio budget go to the sub(s). I went from almost insisting I needed a new receiver to spending over $1700 on a pair of subs. No regrets.

Agree 100% with that. A good sub doesn't just shake the house and couch, it fills in the gap of what the speakers can't produce. It makes the whole system a million times better. I went from a bad, hard to use and dial in or blend Def Tech sub to SVS and it's worlds better. And you guys know I love Def Tech, but I wouldn't go near a sub from them. To many ID sub first companies to choose from and save money on.

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

 

[Tankman]

Sorry I wasn't more clear, I am still new at all this. I bought the 860 before the review came out and I was concerned about the pre-out voltage on the Yamaha clipping at 1.9 volts. I don't have a subwoofer yet but I think that's what I need to try first since it seems like I loose Punch at higher volume. Around -20 db. I best describe it as a car going 55 mph and it's a 4 cilinder. So I think the advice on getting a subwoofer first is the way to go. Thanks for the help, I appreciate it!!!

This is just a guess your Yammy 860 isn't a low end AVR, at high volume levels your probably running out of headroom which means the soundstage starts to collapse, some harmonic dstortion may come into play. When I stated in my previous post that the flagship AVR has bigger power supply and larger caps and that your Tower's would love the lil more headroom. But yeah he is right 1.5dbs isn't much more headroom. I wasn't trying to sway you one way or another with your choice of gear that strictly is yours alone. Watts in a since has more to do with clarity than punch, how much "amperage" a Amp can pull from your electrical outlet has a lot more to do with the punch than anything else, Dapper Dan Factor comes into play. AVRs can't pull much amps, most if not all avrs aren't capable of pulling a lot of amps there just not built to do it. Only a Amp can pull more amps they're designed to do that. Big power supply large caps some amps have many large caps in them. High quality transistors at the rail, there's a lot more reason why stand-alone power amps are superior than the amps inside AVR's. I would suggest researching amps just take a look at the specs on Outlaw amps EMO amps and others. You could even take a look see at Pass Lab or Krell amps check out the amperage pull on those two bad boys but I must warn you Pass Lab, Krell are very expensive and worth the money they're asking. It will blow you mind the build and the price. Untill you decide which way you going to go with your setup yes adding a Sub to me would be a lot more sensible. Adding a stand alone amp alone, be careful with that too a Amp that outputs 200 X 2 into 8 ohms will still only give you about 3dbs more, but the Dapper Dan Factor will be higher with a stand-alone amp and will pull more amps so yes with a add on amp it will control your drivers a lot better hence better sound reproduction. You may not notice much even with an add-on amp at a higher volume you will some but by how much? Again happy hunting.

Mike

 

[lovinthehd]

This is just a guess your Yammy 860 isn't a low end AVR, at high volume levels your probably running out of headroom which means the soundstage starts to collapse, some harmonic dstortion may come into play. When I stated in my previous post that the flagship AVR has bigger power supply and larger caps and that your Tower's would love the lil more headroom. But yeah he is right 1.5dbs isn't much more headroom. I wasn't trying to sway you one way or another with your choice of gear that strictly is yours alone. Watts in a since has more to do with clarity than punch, how much "amperage" a Amp can pull from your electrical outlet has a lot more to do with the punch than anything else, damping factor comes into play. AVRs can't pull much amps, most if not all avrs aren't capable of pulling a lot of amps there just not built to do it. Only a Amp can pull more amps they're designed to do that. Big power supply large caps some amps have many large caps in them. High quality transistors at the rail, there's a lot more reason why stand-alone power amps are superior than the amps inside AVR's. I would suggest researching amps just take a look at the specs on Outlaw amps EMO amps and others. You could even take a look see at Pass Lab or Krell amps check out the amperage pull on those two bad boys but I must warn you Pass Lab, Krell are very expensive and worth the money they're asking. It will blow you mind the build and the price. Untill you decide which way you going to go with your setup yes adding a Sub to me would be a lot more sensible. Adding a stand alone amp alone, be careful with that too a Amp that outputs 200 X 2 into 8 ohms will still only give you about 3dbs more, but the Dampening Factor will be higher with a stand-alone amp and will pull more amps so yes with a add on amp it will control your drivers a lot better hence better sound reproduction. You may not notice much even with an add-on amp at a higher volume you will some but by how much? Again happy hunting.

Mike

Hope you realize the damping factor's value is generally overstated http://www.audioholics.com/audio-amplifier/damping-factor-effects-on-system-response

 

[Tankman]

Hope you realize the Dapper Dan factor value is generally overstated http://www.audioholics.com/audio-amplifier/damping-factor-effects-on-system-response

Of course it is, but so are a lot of other specs too. Your trying to test my knowledge about amp design and spec? Everything to do with audio/video is subjective. But to answer your question? Yes Dapper Dan specs "value" with all amp designs differ widely and are generally overstated. Just trying to help the OP my layman terms on amps are just what they are in a suggested term. Maybe the OP knows this already can't say. Most AVR can't come close the the Dapper Dan Factor of a stand-alone amp. What 5000,7000 maybe? If Dapper Dan Factor has real value of speaker control I suggest reading a article that Harman put out about Dapper Big Dan Factor You should know him, after all he is the Father of combining the first ever pre amp, amp and tuner into one chassis. Harman and Kardon very talented individuals.

Beavis and Butthead

 

[lovinthehd]

Of course it is, but so are a lot of other specs too. Your trying to test my knowledge about amp design and spec? Everything to do with audio/video is subjective. But to answer your question? Yes Damping Factor specs "value" with all amp designs differ widely and are generally overstated. Just trying to help the OP my layman terms on amps are just what they are in a suggested term. Maybe the OP knows this already can't say. Most AVR can't come close the the damping factor of a stand-alone amp. What 50,60 maybe? If Damping Factor has no real value of speaker control I suggest reading a article that Harman put out about Damping Factor. You should know him, after all he is the Father of combining the first ever pre amp, amp and tuner into one chassis. Harman and Kardon very talented individuals.

Mike

You're not helping anyone by pointing them to useless damping factor nonsense. IMO

 

[lovinthehd]

Useless nonsense? Than You missed my point of what I posted in my post to the OP. Not going to get in a pissing contest about specs or what I feel is useless I haven't been on here long and believe me there are a ton of useless nonsense advice in already. I have read in my short time of being here. All suggestive man, here take a puff off of this, cough cough passes joint..

Mike

What was the point of the damping factor again?

 

[Tankman]

What was the point of the damping factor again?

Lolo, Umm ok you win! Now what about them horn loaded tweeters their talking about in that other Thread. Lets go smack up on them dudes some..here ice cold brew on me...snaps open ice cold Miller Lite takes piss in can of beer hands it to lovinthehd.. (Neener)

 

[lovinthehd]

Lolo, Umm ok you win! Now what about them horn loaded tweeters there talking about in that other Thread. Lets go smack up on them dudes some..here ice cold brew on me...snaps open ice cold Miller Lite pass's it to lovinthehd..

Why on earth would anyone drink Miller Lite? That's not beer, it's piss.

ps More accurately used piss.

 

[Tankman]

Why on earth would anyone drink Miller Lite? That's not beer, it's piss.

Taste great less filling, But since you think Miller Lite is "piss" All I can say maybe someone pissed in the one they gave you? ...lol..

 

[lovinthehd]

Taste great less filling, But since you think Miller Lite is "piss" All I can say maybe someone pissed in the one they gave you? ...lol..

You're welcome to think that's beer....I never could, I actually like beer. No need to have beer less filling unless you're in advertising....kind of like damping factor importance in amps. YMMV, etc

 

[Tankman]

You're welcome to think that's beer....I never could, I actually like beer. No need to have beer less filling unless you're in advertising....kind of like damping factor importance in amps. YMMV, etc

Your sadly mistaken about Dapper Dan Factor and Miller Light beer. As for piss, used piss,..umm..yeah I pissed in your
corn flakes..lolo Them two are on you. Can't go there not me no! I disagree that's just bad advice man. You surely fell short in trying to help the OP with good advice and recommendations.. anything else other than that is purely subjective. ..

Mike

 

[lovinthehd]

Of course it is, but so are a lot of other specs too. Your trying to test my knowledge about amp design and spec? Everything to do with audio/video is subjective. But to answer your question? Yes Damping Factor specs "value" with all amp designs differ widely and are generally overstated. Just trying to help the OP my layman terms on amps are just what they are in a suggested term. Maybe the OP knows this already can't say. Most AVR can't come close the the damping factor of a stand-alone amp. What 50,60 maybe? If Damping Factor has no real value of speaker control I suggest reading a article that Harman put out about Damping Factor. You should know him, after all he is the Father of combining the first ever pre amp, amp and tuner into one chassis. Harman and Kardon very talented individuals.

Mike

You mean the article by Dr Floyd Toole of Harman on the subject? Here's a link to Dr. Toole's article on damping factor, via Roger Russell's page (formerly of McIntosh), the Damping, Damping Factor and Damn Nonsense article.

 

[lovinthehd]

lovinthehd,

Your point on Damping Factor and is well noted and a ton of Studies have been done on it and written up about it..Lets just say difference of opinions, to a lot of different factors with this audio video thing, your right I am right.. specs are what they are, but the end result specs alone isn't what this Hobby is really about and that's the point you missed on me trying to get across to the guy about the 3040. Your fixation about Dampening Factor is one little thing in the equation. I mentioning Damping Factor cuz I knew he was going to run across it once he went and read the specs. All and I mean All even Krell, Pass Lad, EMO, Outlaw and so on inflate specs! It all depends on who's running the test and what they're using to come up to those end conclusions of their specs. But you got Sh,,ty with me over damping Factor? lolo...ok, again you win, move on dude! I am not in here or did I join up on audioholics website to get into the bait or a pissing contest about F..n. specs.
Now here is your Miller Lite piss beer. Taste great and it is less filling best beer in the world! Have a good onevLovinthehd..may you live long and prosper.

Mike

Then please elucidate us on how it works and why the OP should consider it when Dr Toole, one of the most influential scientists in audio, calls it essentially nonsense....and a former top dog at McIntosh agrees....it's not a matter of specmanship, it's whether it's an actual concern.