System rework advice please

C

Captain K

Audiophyte
Hello All, I have a desire to get into the vintage scene, however, with what I currently have I was unsure if a total start over would be best? I currently have the following:
Sony receiver STR-DE898
Sony CD CDP-CE500
Pioneer TT PL-570 (the 80's version, not the nice vintage)
Polk speakers 2 RTi 12's

The speakers can be run with 2 separate receivers which is what is really getting me into looking, just thought if I was going to go that far I should ask for advice on the big picture. Thanks for any advice, C.K.
 
j_garcia

j_garcia

Audioholic Jedi
Huh? I think you are referring to biamping the speaker, which would not be "two receivers". If you hooked up two different receivers, you would have two different signals going to each portion of those speakers and playing each separately would give you only half of your audio. The first thing I would definitely get rid of is that receiver.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
What do you mean getting into vintage; that tt isn't vintage?
 
S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Staff member
Lol, you do NOT want to run those speaker with two different receivers! It is bi-ampable, which means it can run from two amplifiers that are connected to the same receiver.
 
C

Captain K

Audiophyte
Thanks for the info thus far! I realize my current set up isn't vintage & yes what I meant to say was b-iamping. I am currently looking at various websites for a receiver, however, what I want & my budget are currently 2 different things. Still looking though, Thanks again, C.K.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Don't bother with passive bi-amping, it's a waste of wire. Still not sure what you mean by vintage, to me it means old stuff.
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Slumlord
Thanks for the info thus far! I realize my current set up isn't vintage & yes what I meant to say was b-iamping. I am currently looking at various websites for a receiver, however, what I want & my budget are currently 2 different things. Still looking though, Thanks again, C.K.
I think HD was saying that he considers your tt to already be vintage (it is more than 30 years old...).
 
2

2channel lover

Audioholic Field Marshall
Hello All, I have a desire to get into the vintage scene, however, with what I currently have I was unsure if a total start over would be best? I currently have the following:
Sony receiver STR-DE898
Sony CD CDP-CE500
Pioneer TT PL-570 (the 80's version, not the nice vintage)
Polk speakers 2 RTi 12's

The speakers can be run with 2 separate receivers which is what is really getting me into looking, just thought if I was going to go that far I should ask for advice on the big picture. Thanks for any advice, C.K.
Cap...I'm in the process of reworking my the audio part of my AV system as well.

IMO...the 1st things you need to ask yourself before you start spending money...what do I really want to accomplish here? Do I want better audio? Clarity? More bass? Updated surround sound?

Of course you have a budget, but once you determine what you're trying to accomplish, you might find the budget is perfect or the budget is not realistic. From your existing equipment see what you can keep short term and build around those pieces.

My original system was 20+ yrs old. I don't plan on doing this again any time soon so I want better than average quality and as a result found that my budget was not realistic. So, I'm going a little a time. I'm more than halfway there now...no turning back! lol

Enjoy the journey!
 
M

MrBoat

Audioholic Ninja
I started here in a vintage way. I was able to find higher end vintage stuff on crgs-list cheaper than restoring my own not so high end vintage stuff. Pennies on the dollar cheaper.

But, curiosity got the best of me, I asked some more modern questions here, and now there is this huge sucking sound where my wallet used to be. Sounds tragic but, I ended up with some relatively high end modern gear via DIY, and some good vintage stuff for about the same money I would have spent anyway. The other positive being, I have more options collectively. I have older speakers that really shine with the not so great recordings of my era, and speakers that do really well with the best of all.
 
Bucknekked

Bucknekked

Audioholic Samurai
I have older speakers that really shine with the not so great recordings of my era, and speakers that do really well with the best of all.
MrBoat
I struggled for years with the question of why my system didn't sound as good as some of the systems in my friends places. It wasn't until recently when I was being edumacated about all things audio on the AH and other places that I discovered that many of my favorite recordings were probably the culprit rather than my systems being crap. I have kept many of those 1970 and 1980 era recordings because I love the music, but I've learned that their recording quality on many selections is "not so great" as you put it.

I have learned there isn't much you can do to improve the quality of a poorly engineered recording. A great system will still play all the deficiencies and short comings of a not so great song. Somehow, it never occurred to me that the source of some of my music problems (certainly not all) was in the songs themselves.

Its been a wonderful experience finding and collecting new music that's recorded with high standards and good quality. Good songs, recorded well, certainly improve the listening experience in a really big way.
 
M

MrBoat

Audioholic Ninja
MrBoat
I struggled for years with the question of why my system didn't sound as good as some of the systems in my friends places. It wasn't until recently when I was being edumacated about all things audio on the AH and other places that I discovered that many of my favorite recordings were probably the culprit rather than my systems being crap. I have kept many of those 1970 and 1980 era recordings because I love the music, but I've learned that their recording quality on many selections is "not so great" as you put it.

I have learned there isn't much you can do to improve the quality of a poorly engineered recording. A great system will still play all the deficiencies and short comings of a not so great song. Somehow, it never occurred to me that the source of some of my music problems (certainly not all) was in the songs themselves.

Its been a wonderful experience finding and collecting new music that's recorded with high standards and good quality. Good songs, recorded well, certainly improve the listening experience in a really big way.
This is where I tend to give those hardware engineers a bit more credit, especially with what has been touted as; "The worse decade in audio." They managed to squeeze some good sound out of those recordings with consumer based equipment. I have old speakers now that still pull it off really well and across multiple genres. Is why I keep them, in spite of the modern tendencies towards the clean math and measurements, and computers deciding what's right.

I've heard other less endearing terms such as; "party speakers." Party speakers, for party music is a good thing from my experience. I know the sounds of these instruments from the live shows back then. I hear the accents in between and the picks and frets and again, with no foreign distortion that wasn't part of the music to start with. I remember seeing Ted Nugent live playing that Birdland guitar and I remember the sound and those damned party speakers give it back, just like that.

The only real requirement was, enough watts, and big enough woofers. 12's for party speakers is a minimum from my experience, with 15's being optimal for the average room size of the times, and two channel only.
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Overlord
Yeah buddy!!! I have(still) a pair of Cerwin Vega D9's with 15's and tone controls on the front. Some of the best parties of my life were powered by those babies. Now they're up in my studio waiting for surrounds. Good times...
 
M

MrBoat

Audioholic Ninja
Yeah buddy!!! I have(still) a pair of Cerwin Vega D9's with 15's and tone controls on the front. Some of the best parties of my life were powered by those babies. Now they're up in my studio waiting for surrounds. Good times...
I just gave my old rack system to my son. When I went over there to make sure he had it hooked up right, I thought. . .damn, this thing still sounds great. He listens to the classic rock from my era and it's better than what many of the surround/movie people would dare to admit. I had just replaced the surrounds. The woofers and mids were still perfectly centered with no side-to-side slop or sag, and I beat the hell out of those speakers for years. No scuffing or scratching either, even without the surrounds attached.

There's an ambient presence in those large paper cones that's readily apparent as soon as you start moving up the volume range from the very bottom to the top. And the mid range and tweeters manage to forgive a lot, still with letting the important bits through. That's a lot to ask of even the best speakers. Someone, somewhere, knew what they were doing with all that.

Now, some were ridiculous, like with what they call, "kabuki speakers," where they crammed as many drivers into cabinets too small for it, but we were aware of that back then.

With that said, when someone says they want to revive some old school gear, I highly encourage it. If it wasn't too gimmicky to begin with, chances are, it can be pretty darn good.
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Overlord
I just gave my old rack system to my son. When I went over there to make sure he had it hooked up right, I thought. . .damn, this thing still sounds great. He listens to the classic rock from my era and it's better than what many of the surround/movie people would dare to admit. I had just replaced the surrounds. The woofers and mids were still perfectly centered with no side-to-side slop or sag, and I beat the hell out of those speakers for years. No scuffing or scratching either, even without the surrounds attached.

There's an ambient presence in those large paper cones that's readily apparent as soon as you start moving up the volume range from the very bottom to the top. And the mid range and tweeters manage to forgive a lot, still with letting the important bits through. That's a lot to ask of even the best speakers. Someone, somewhere, knew what they were doing with all that.

Now, some were ridiculous, like with what they call, "kabuki speakers," where they crammed as many drivers into cabinets too small for it, but we were aware of that back then.

With that said, when someone says they want to revive some old school gear, I highly encourage it. If it wasn't too gimmicky to begin with, chances are, it can be pretty darn good.
Lol, kabuki... I suddenly see a pair of 901's in my head. I try to teach my kids about the value of quality in things, vs quantity. My oldest is only 14 but I decided it was time he had his own system, and not a stupid BT portable speaker. I donated an old onkyo avr, and my garage sonosub. My neighbor was selling these speakers her dad bought(she thought it was a kit but no) in the early 80's. DLK, as it turns out, was the in house brand of Shaak electronics, which IIrc became Best Buy. So for 10 bucks and a few hours of testing and refinishing, he's got a real nice system. Pics are his room while "in progress". I surprised him with the whitewash to fit the room vibe, and he actually loves it.
 
M

MrBoat

Audioholic Ninja
Lol, kabuki... I suddenly see a pair of 901's in my head. I try to teach my kids about the value of quality in things, vs quantity. My oldest is only 14 but I decided it was time he had his own system, and not a stupid BT portable speaker. I donated an old onkyo avr, and my garage sonosub. My neighbor was selling these speakers her dad bought(she thought it was a kit but no) in the early 80's. DLK, as it turns out, was the in house brand of Shaak electronics, which IIrc became Best Buy. So for 10 bucks and a few hours of testing and refinishing, he's got a real nice system. Pics are his room while "in progress". I surprised him with the whitewash to fit the room vibe, and he actually loves it.
That's awesome. Same sentiments here. My sons are grown now, but when they stop by I never hear them knock because I have the music up. I caught my youngest honed in on the sound of my new speakers and he looked kind of perplexed of what he was actually hearing. That's when I hooked him up at his place. I doubt he will ever look back.

He reports back that his friends too are finding his pad a favorite place to listen to tunes now. I doubt any of them had ever been subjected to 2-channel, three-way beasts and high watts before either, point blank like. The only thing they knew was their parents conservative has-been audio habits, rap, bass and techno music and in/on ear accessories.

He says; "The loudest I will go is 4." Says he can feel the thrust from the ports from across the room at 4. lol
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Overlord
Wait til he goes to "11"!!!!!!!!
It's true, once you know you can never go back. I made a rule, and even my wife follows it. NO cellphone speakers will play music in the house. Portable BT is the minimum, lol. Every tv in the house has the speakers disabled too! My family doesn't even know they're spoiled. Lol....
 
2

2channel lover

Audioholic Field Marshall
MrBoat
I struggled for years with the question of why my system didn't sound as good as some of the systems in my friends places. It wasn't until recently when I was being edumacated about all things audio on the AH and other places that I discovered that many of my favorite recordings were probably the culprit rather than my systems being crap. I have kept many of those 1970 and 1980 era recordings because I love the music, but I've learned that their recording quality on many selections is "not so great" as you put it.

I have learned there isn't much you can do to improve the quality of a poorly engineered recording. A great system will still play all the deficiencies and short comings of a not so great song. Somehow, it never occurred to me that the source of some of my music problems (certainly not all) was in the songs themselves.

Its been a wonderful experience finding and collecting new music that's recorded with high standards and good quality. Good songs, recorded well, certainly improve the listening experience in a really big way.
70s/80s...I think it largely depends on the artist and the producer...I had don't have a turntable and decided I was not going to buy another one so I gave all of my LPs away to a friend that has a nice systems...you can definitely tell who had the money and or expertise when it came to recording in the 70s and earlier actually.

Actually there is but it's counter productive to what we come here for...go with a cheaper, lessor quality system...lol. The more accurate your speakers and source are, the more they will expose bad recordings.
 
2

2channel lover

Audioholic Field Marshall
That's awesome. Same sentiments here. My sons are grown now, but when they stop by I never hear them knock because I have the music up. I caught my youngest honed in on the sound of my new speakers and he looked kind of perplexed of what he was actually hearing. That's when I hooked him up at his place. I doubt he will ever look back.

He reports back that his friends too are finding his pad a favorite place to listen to tunes now. I doubt any of them had ever been subjected to 2-channel, three-way beasts and high watts before either, point blank like. The only thing they knew was their parents conservative has-been audio habits, rap, bass and techno music and in/on ear accessories.

He says; "The loudest I will go is 4." Says he can feel the thrust from the ports from across the room at 4. lol
Good stuff...turning on the next generation to good quality music.

My son has one foot out the nest, saving his money for a townhome. I have pr B&W speakers I think I'm going to pass on to him because he's into music and his idea of hifi right now is a pair polk computer speakers and help him build a decent 2-channel system to start off with.
 

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