can I do this with hdmi and toslink?

[patmat00]

I'm embarrassed to say this, but I ran a multitude of cables in-wall from my tv to my a/v closet... except a toslink for the tv audio, the tv streams amazingly well so I'd rather not use a streaming box for the time being. My onkyo receiver is old and doesn't like audio-only from an hdmi. I still like it, and I'm not ready to upgrade.

1. I have a couple of spare hdmis that run from the tv end to the a/v closet inside the wall.
2. is it possible to connect from the tv optical out to an hdmi audio extractor, and then use the in-wall hdmi and connect it at the a/v closet end to an hdmi audio extractor, and then run a toslink to my receiver?
3. Basically it's tv to tosslink to hdmi through a converter box back to converter box from hdmi to toslink to a/v receiver optical input...
4. I know it sounds stupid, and I could have saved me time, trouble, money, and the embarrassment if I had ran a couple of $10 toslink cables

Thanks for the help

PatMat00

 

[Littlefoott]

there is a way
https://www.amazon.ca/Panlong-Extractor-Splitter-embedder-Optical/dp/B00LM34M0S

YOu have to put effort into finding one or one similar , I can't seem to find one available
but the tech is out there

 

[TLS Guy]

I think this will extract the audio from HDMI for you.

 

[BMXTRIX]

Unfortunately, you can't utilize HDMI as an audio only source. The audio is actually embedded into the HDMI video stream, so you can't simply use a HDMI audio embedder without associated video to go along with it. This is one of the many shortcomings of HDMI.

But, you said you ran a 'multitude' of cables between the two locations... Is it ALL HDMI, or do you have other cables there? Most specifically, do you have any coaxial cables run between the two locations? If you have coaxial, then use a Toslink to S/PDIF converter to change the audio to coaxial digital audio and send it that way.

If not, then I would look for a cat-5e digital audio transmitter, which I would think may exist. If not, then still the toslink to s/pdif converter and some work with cat-5e could likely yield good results.

All these links to HDMI audio extractors is going to prove fruitless.

Oh, and you would spend a lot less on a $60 Roku and just put it by the A/V receiver overall.

 

[TLS Guy]

Unfortunately, you can't utilize HDMI as an audio only source. The audio is actually embedded into the HDMI video stream, so you can't simply use a HDMI audio embedder without associated video to go along with it. This is one of the many shortcomings of HDMI.

But, you said you ran a 'multitude' of cables between the two locations... Is it ALL HDMI, or do you have other cables there? Most specifically, do you have any coaxial cables run between the two locations? If you have coaxial, then use a Toslink to S/PDIF converter to change the audio to coaxial digital audio and send it that way.

If not, then I would look for a cat-5e digital audio transmitter, which I would think may exist. If not, then still the toslink to s/pdif converter and some work with cat-5e could likely yield good results.

All these links to HDMI audio extractors is going to prove fruitless.

Oh, and you would spend a lot less on a $60 Roku and just put it by the A/V receiver overall.

I thought you could strip the audio. There is an audio only Chromecast device that does not have the onerous DRM of AV HDMI.

There are lots of audio strippers from HDMI on the market. I have never used one, but feedback from consumers say they work.

 

[BMXTRIX]

Yes, you can send video without audio from HDMI, but if I'm reading the original post correctly, he's trying to inject audio onto a 'spare' HDMI cable, send it back to the A/V receiver, then pull audio off the same HDMI cable.

You can certainly send video without audio, but the audio can't be sent without video. Which is what I believe the OP is attempting to do. If I'm wrong on what he is trying to do, then that's on me, but it sounds like he wants to use the optical output from the TV to send audio back to an A/V receiver. No Toslink in place. The receiver (and/or TV) does not support ARC... So, how do you get audio back? The answer to that is not with a 'spare' HDMI cable. It needs to be handled in another manner.

Oh, and HDMI audio extractors can work very well. I've used them several times from various manufacturers.

 

[TLS Guy]

Yes, you can send video without audio from HDMI, but if I'm reading the original post correctly, he's trying to inject audio onto a 'spare' HDMI cable, send it back to the A/V receiver, then pull audio off the same HDMI cable.

You can certainly send video without audio, but the audio can't be sent without video. Which is what I believe the OP is attempting to do. If I'm wrong on what he is trying to do, then that's on me, but it sounds like he wants to use the optical output from the TV to send audio back to an A/V receiver. No Toslink in place. The receiver (and/or TV) does not support ARC... So, how do you get audio back? The answer to that is not with a 'spare' HDMI cable. It needs to be handled in another manner.

Oh, and HDMI audio extractors can work very well. I've used them several times from various manufacturers.

You are probably right. He does not have ARC on his old Onkyo receiver. I bet his TV has ARC.
I don't know for sure, but I bet you can't strip audio from ARC. It would be surprising if you could, but I would bet the rent you can't.

 

[BMXTRIX]

You are probably right. He does not have ARC on his old Onkyo receiver. I bet his TV has ARC.
I don't know for sure, but I bet you can't strip audio from ARC. It would be surprising if you could, but I would bet the rent you can't.

Getting the audio isn't much of an issue in analog format since the TV has Toslink (optical) output. You can pick up a cheap DAC from Amazon for $20 which works pretty well and get audio. The problem is that HDMI isn't an audio only cable.

The 'audio only' Chromecast actually does have video associated with it. Likely just a black screen in a standard resolution which is compatible with most devices. Think 1080i or 720p, black screen, or with a basic 'logo'. But, the audio is embedded. There is no requirement for DRM with HDMI. Most computers don't have DRM on them and work just fine with receivers and televisions. So, it's not DRM which is the issue. It's the audio by itself. It just can't be sent down an HDMI cable without associated video of some sort. The exception could be ARC, but what goes on in the ARC world is not something I'm fully versed on in how HDMI handles that.

 

[highfigh]

If you have a coax cable between the TV and AV equipment that's not being used, you can use a converter that changes the audio from optical to coax or coax to optical. I use them fairly often and have never had any problems unless the optical fiber was coiled too tightly or bent when someone crammed something behind the equipment.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/112031142042?lpid=82&chn=ps&ul_noapp=true

 

[BMXTRIX]

So... While an HDMI audio injector, like this:
https://jet.com/product/detail/2c6254e13eaf4813915b7769b73f031c?jcmp=pla:ggl:gen_electronics_a2:electronics_accessories_adapters_a2_other:na:PLA_348771660_24231181980_pla-161712003660:na:na:na:2&code=PLA15&gclid=CJ7QhN-sndICFQdWDQodIZEEiQ

Looks like it makes sense. Toslink out of the TV, into the injector, then to a HDMI audio extractor at the other end...

But, without video, it likely won't work. It needs the video there to do the audio.

 

[patmat00]

Thanks everybody for your responses. I think I'm still getting conflicting responses, I guess I didn't explain myself well. All the cables I ran in the wall are hdmi. I'm going to be more specific this time about what I was envisioning:
1. My TV is a 75" Samsung series 6 LED with full HD, but no 4K. I can't see any mention of ARC in the manual, so I guess it doesn't support it.
2. It does have an optical audio output
3. My thought (hope) is that I could connect it with a toslink cable to something like this:

Monoprice 105369 DVI & S/PDIF Digital Coax Optical TOSLINK Audio to HDMI Converter https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0038XNTWW/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_vgKQybBX2X4Z3

4. Run one of the in-wall hdmis to the closet and connect it to something like this:

J-Tech Digital Premium Quality 1080P HDMI To HDMI + Audio (SPDIF + RCA Stereo) Audio Extractor Converter (Support Apple TV 4 Gen) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00BIQER0E/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_0eKQybBVJJZYT

5. And use another toslink to connect to my receiver (Onkyo TX-505E) digital in.

After reading the responses, at this point I'm guessing it's not going to be possible because of the lack of ARC on either end... and I'm going to have to go with plan B: get a $130 roku ultra (with hdmi and toslink) and use the tv streaming ability for when I don't need/want 7.2 sound. If somebody can confirm this I'll appreciate it.

Final question: what do you recommend for remote? Hopefully not in the $100s of dollars.

 

[TLS Guy]

Thanks everybody for your responses. I think I'm still getting conflicting responses, I guess I didn't explain myself well. All the cables I ran in the wall are hdmi. I'm going to be more specific this time about what I was envisioning:
1. My TV is a 75" Samsung series 6 LED with full HD, but no 4K. I can't see any mention of ARC in the manual, so I guess it doesn't support it.
2. It does have an optical audio output
3. My thought (hope) is that I could connect it with a toslink cable to something like this:

Monoprice 105369 DVI & S/PDIF Digital Coax Optical TOSLINK Audio to HDMI Converter https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0038XNTWW/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_vgKQybBX2X4Z3

4. Run one of the in-wall hdmis to the closet and connect it to something like this:

J-Tech Digital Premium Quality 1080P HDMI To HDMI + Audio (SPDIF + RCA Stereo) Audio Extractor Converter (Support Apple TV 4 Gen) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00BIQER0E/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_0eKQybBVJJZYT

5. And use another toslink to connect to my receiver (Onkyo TX-505E) digital in.

After reading the responses, at this point I'm guessing it's not going to be possible because of the lack of ARC on either end... and I'm going to have to go with plan B: get a $130 roku ultra (with hdmi and toslink) and use the tv streaming ability for when I don't need/want 7.2 sound. If somebody can confirm this I'll appreciate it.

Final question: what do you recommend for remote? Hopefully not in the $100s of dollars.

Now you have clarified this, there is no way to do what you want. You need to connect everything to the receiver and just use the TV as an end device. This is by far the best way of doing things anyway.

After set up the only thing you should ever use on the TV remote is the on/off button.

 

[BMXTRIX]

It's not ARC which is the problem, it's that you can't send audio over HDMI without video. The DVI + audio to HDMI converter, needs the video on the DVI to create the audio+video signal. It can't send audio by itself.

Yes, I would get a Tivo Ultra and call it a day.

The Ultra, I believe, has a RF remote, so you won't need another remote to control the Roku. You can use the remote that comes with it.

If you want a good universal remote, there are tons of options, but you will need one which has RF built into it so that it can control devices in your equipment rack since you don't have anything at your TV. How are you currently controlling your receiver if there is only HDMI run to your TV and your receiver isn't by the TV? How far away is the receiver and equipment from the TV? What are you going to do when you decide to upgrade to 4K and you need all new HDMI cables?

 

[highfigh]

Now you have clarified this, there is no way to do what you want. You need to connect everything to the receiver and just use the TV as an end device. This is by far the best way of doing things anyway.

After set up the only thing you should ever use on the TV remote is the on/off button.

This is the reason I don't like TVs with streaming ability- they seem to think most people plop a TV on a table and use it without other speakers and if they would just listen to it that way, they might finally make TVs available that are just a monitor, the way they're available in the commercial/industrial market.

 

[patmat00]

Thanks one more time,
now, more information... i re-checked the tv manual and it does support ARC. it's a samsung 6300. Now the questions:

1. using the hdmi (arc), do you think i can use an hdmi audio extractor like the one I mentioned above J-Tech Digital Premium Quality 1080P HDMI To HDMI + Audio (SPDIF + RCA Stereo) Audio Extractor Converter (Support Apple TV 4 Gen) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00BIQER0E/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_0eKQybBVJJZYT to connect hdmi and optical separately to the receiver?

Responding to BMXTRIX:
- I have an IR extender (in-wall cable) from the TV location to the closet controlling the receiver, the dvd player, the blueray player, the cable box, etc.
- I have no idea what I'm going to do if/when i decide to upgrade to 4k. my tv is new, an upgrade from a +/- 11 yr old 50" 720p. I don't see an upgrade happening any time soon, but I think the cables i ran in the wall support 4k (is that possible, or am I hallucinating?)

I look forward to reading your thoughts. I'm really a noob

 

[sterling shoote]

Interesting, the HDMI output from Sony 5400ES SACD player is obviously audio only, bitstream or PCM, multi-channel. And, of course, OPPO Blu-ray players have same audio only from HDMI capabilities. There are several HDMI to 5.1 multi-channel RCA converters out there too for folks who have legacy pre/pros without HDMI. This allows those units to get SACD multi-channel audio from Blu-ray players which play multi-channel SACD but do not have analog output. BTW, HDMI is not about quality connection, it's all about preventing folks from making exact copies of original material. The content producers have succeeded.

 

[BMXTRIX]

The HDMI output from anything is not 'audio only'. It is audio embedded perhaps into a black video frame, but there is still video content there. HDMI supports audio exclusively within the video frame. So, while a 'SACD' player is an audio only device, if it carries that audio on a HDMI cable, then it's using something to create a black video frame, and then putting the audio into that.

HDMI is a connection method, not a security standard. DVI and DisplayPort both use the same security standards which is on copyright protected content, HDCP. As well, it takes about two minutes to find software which can copy discs without issue, or can strip HDCP off of the signal to allow for copies to be made. It's rather easy.

Finally, HDMI was designed to carry more bandwidth. So, it can carry higher audio quality than legacy digital audio formats, such as Toslink or S/PDIF. Analog can certainly carry that same quality, but there is far more chance for noise in analog systems, and they aren't 'one cable' solutions.

HDMI audio extractors do not work without a video signal in place. Many don't work unless there is a TV connected at the other end to make the HDCP authentication on copyright material. There are some better units which will work without a TV in place, but then they authenticate the HDCP locally for the audio extraction. But, there is still video in that signal.

 

[BMXTRIX]

Thanks one more time,
now, more information... i re-checked the tv manual and it does support ARC. it's a samsung 6300. Now the questions:

1. using the hdmi (arc), do you think i can use an hdmi audio extractor like the one I mentioned above J-Tech Digital Premium Quality 1080P HDMI To HDMI + Audio (SPDIF + RCA Stereo) Audio Extractor Converter (Support Apple TV 4 Gen) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00BIQER0E/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_0eKQybBVJJZYT to connect hdmi and optical separately to the receiver?

This is very unlikely due to nothing being capable of tripping the ARC. ARC is insanely poorly designed and while it supports standard 5.1 audio formats, it isn't something you can just 'select' on your TV.

But, then I search the web, and find this:
http://www.lindy-usa.com/hdmi-4k-audio-extractor-with-toslink-output-38068.html

It looks like it will do what you want... Maybe. That is, the parts seem right. You hook it up to your TV and it can locally send the CEC code to the TV, when you press the button, that tells the TV to use ARC. Then gives you a Toslink output, which you can connect to your receiver. What is unclear, and may not matter, is if there is a HDMI source required. It may not be, and you may be really good to go with that one little box and your TV with ARC.

- I have an IR extender (in-wall cable) from the TV location to the closet controlling the receiver, the dvd player, the blueray player, the cable box, etc.

That's not hooked up with an HDMI cable. So, what kind of cable was used from the TV location to the closet? That's at least one additional cable type in use, and may be needed in the future. Especially if it is a cat-5 cable.

- I have no idea what I'm going to do if/when i decide to upgrade to 4k. my tv is new, an upgrade from a +/- 11 yr old 50" 720p. I don't see an upgrade happening any time soon, but I think the cables i ran in the wall support 4k (is that possible, or am I hallucinating?)

You are probably hallucinating. Like many of us are. Unfortunately, with true 18Gbs content, like 4K video really will be, and it will push that 18Gbs limit, we are going to find out our cables aren't really as good as we thought they were. Solutions over cat-5e/6 cabling will likely come about in the next couple of years. But, we definitely aren't there yet. As a plus, there's not much in the way of content yet either.

 

[patmat00]

Thanks for so much information. I guess what i'm going to do is buy the audio extractor from amazon and see what happens. if it doesn't work i'll return it and that's that.
after that, i'll have to tell my wife that i need to run a visible cable to get the audio from the tv.
finally, the cable for the IR extender looks like a regular earplug cable with the same terminations, so there is no option to carry sound that way.
Why didn't i run 1 or 2 optical cables? cuz i'm dumb
there is cat5e running from the tv to the closet. i was planning on using that to connect the tv to the router for better streaming. is there an adapter optical-cat5e-optical??

 

[BMXTRIX]

Asking about additional cabling was my first question for you. Cat-5e is an exceptionally versatile cable and here is all you need:

https://www.amazon.com/Vanco-280531-Digital-Optical-Extender/dp/B00CTRUTN0/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1488899274&sr=8-2&keywords=toslink+over+cat5

They have a number of versions of this on Amazon.

Cat-5e/6 cabling is, by far, the most important cabling to run in setups because of how versatile the cable is. You can use it for networking, HDMI extension, and in this case, digital audio extension.

HDMI with Ethernet can be utilized in the future as well, and I would expect at some point for them to come up with HDMI 2.0/4K solutions over cat-5e as well.