Multi channel analog

H

herbu

Audioholic Samurai
According to "Geek Squad" Turns out I needed amplifier to connect OPPO 105D because receiver (VSX-52)only has analog "outputs" not inputs.
1. That is wrong. VSX-52 does have analog inputs. If you want to use the 105D analog outputs instead of HDMI, you can still connect directly to the VSX-52.

2. I would not get rid of the AVR.
Are blurays the only thing you watch? How about a cable/sat box? How about other sources like Amazon TV, or Apple TV, or Playstation or any of the growing number of sources? Your 105D has one HDMI input. Your Pioneer has 6.

3. There are more capabilities available in your AVR. Keep it. Connect your Oppo w/ HDMI or analog... I don't think you'll hear any difference.
 
O

ofcr17601

Audioholic Intern
7 channel output but does it have a bi-amp option? It's still a waste of time and wire to passively bi-amp even if it does. You can use the 105D with the amp, it may not offer all the features of the avr, but it will work.

Ok then as long as it can deliver the best sound and video for my buck, then I'm willing to give it a shot. The Oppo will decode all or most blu rays and music content from Apple TV and other sources, so I should be good to go. I should be able to figure out own my own during set up if should down mix to 5.1 with surround back terminals or 7.1.

I should have learned my lesson in earlier post not to mention Bi-Amping on this forum, but "unfortunatley" it's a part of my configuration. I'm a little surprised that such a simple and easy configuration, would render such discard against it. I do know there is no real discernible difference in sound and at best a marketing ploy. However, I do have the capacity to spend the extra money & time for cabling, but the most important issue for me is, it can't do any apparent harm. So please, I'm gonna need all the help I can get from ya to configure 5.1, so let's try to move past the bi-amping issue.

I should get this monster of a amplifier in tommorrow, and will try to connect my self. It weighs more than my wife!! So wish me luck. I may need set up advice during the process. Thank you for responding!!
 
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O

ofcr17601

Audioholic Intern
1. That is wrong. VSX-52 does have analog inputs. If you want to use the 105D analog outputs instead of HDMI, you can still connect directly to the VSX-52.

2. I would not get rid of the AVR.
Are blurays the only thing you watch? How about a cable/sat box? How about other sources like Amazon TV, or Apple TV, or Playstation or any of the growing number of sources? Your 105D has one HDMI input. Your Pioneer has 6.

3. There are more capabilities available in your AVR. Keep it. Connect your Oppo w/ HDMI or analog... I don't think you'll hear any difference.

No Geek squad was right on this one, I verified looked at specs,manual and my Pioneer VSX-52 AVR and only pre amp outputs there. Other models have inputs but not mine.

The oppo has (2) HDMI's one in front and the other in the back. One for Apple TV and the other for my Sat Box. Two HDMI outs for TV and the other for Audio.

I have PS3 but never played games (too old) no kids, strictly for movies and oppo 105d will do that.

Thanks
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
Ok then as long as it can deliver the best sound and video for my buck, then I'm willing to give it a shot.
You only need a pair of RCA Y-connectors to biamp using the 105D and Monolith amp. You could possibly use the dedicated stereo outputs with the multichannel L/R outputs; and skip the Y-connector, but I don't recommend it. Try PM RichB (see the link I provided in post#20) and he may share his experience with you on using similar configuration, not sure if bi-amp though.

The Oppo will decode all or most blu rays and music content from Apple TV and other sources, so I should be good to go. I should be able to figure out own my own during set up if should down mix to 5.1 with surround back terminals or 7.1.
"figure out"? I thought you already know you have to set downmix to 5.1 to play 7.1 movies so you don't lose the back surround information. No need to do so if you never play any 7.1 source, but there is no harm leaving the downmix setting to 5.1 all the time until you are ready for 7.1.

I should have learned my lesson in earlier post not to mention Bi-Amping on this forum, but "unfortunatley" it's a part of my configuration. I'm a little surprised that such a simple and easy configuration, would render such discard against it. I do know there is no real discernible difference in sound and at best a marketing ploy. However, I do have the capacity to spend the extra money & time for cabling, but the most important issue for me is, it can't do any apparent harm.
Agree, if you do it right, there is no harm. There are theoretical advantages for passive biamping especially when you are now getting a real power amp. People are simply expressing their opinions that the benefits won't be audibly discernible except for the golden ears and/or those prone to Placebo effects. If you have two extra channels to spare anyway, why not try it and find out for yourself? There is always a chance that you could hear a subtle difference, depending on various factors and how prone you are to Placebo effects.

I should get this monster of a amplifier in tommorrow, and will try to connect my self. It weighs more than my wife!! So wish me luck. I may need set up advice during the process. Thank you for responding!!
Good luck, just be careful how you do the heavy lifting..
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Ok then as long as it can deliver the best sound and video for my buck, then I'm willing to give it a shot. The Oppo will decode all or most blu rays and music content from Apple TV and other sources, so I should be good to go. I should be able to figure out own my own during set up if should down mix to 5.1 with surround back terminals or 7.1.

I should have learned my lesson in earlier post not to mention Bi-Amping on this forum, but "unfortunatley" it's a part of my configuration. I'm a little surprised that such a simple and easy configuration, would render such discard against it. I do know there is no real discernible difference in sound and at best a marketing ploy. However, I do have the capacity to spend the extra money & time for cabling, but the most important issue for me is, it can't do any apparent harm. So please, I'm gonna need all the help I can get from ya to configure 5.1, so let's try to move past the bi-amping issue.

I should get this monster of a amplifier in tommorrow, and will try to connect my self. It weighs more than my wife!! So wish me luck. I may need set up advice during the process. Thank you for responding!!
LOL, sorry, no more mention of the bi-amp thing....but am curious if Oppo thought this was a worthy setup or not so as to provide for it or if you'll have to y-split the L/R channels to do so. Not hard to connect pre-outs to amp inputs, as long as you're ready with the appropriate length of rca cables (and maybe splitters). Good luck!
 
O

ofcr17601

Audioholic Intern
Don't forget to set down mix option to 5.1, as described in the user manual page 18:

"If the A/V receiver or amplifier only has 5.1ch audio inputs, do not connect the SBL (Surround Back Left) and SBR (Surround Back Right) terminals, and set the Down Mix option in the Setup Menu to 5.1 to make sure that any 7.1 channel signals are converted to 5.1 channels (refer to Down Mix Mode on page 72)"
I'm sorry PENG about my statement of "figuring it out." I've received so much good advice, I have trouble processing it all.The Monolith "7" X 200 channel AB AMP will have 7 terminals including the surround SBL and SBR. My front left and right speakers are bi-amped to the amplifier speaker terminals to SBL and SBR.

However, for the RCA analog connection configuration 5.1, do not connect the SBL (surround Back Left) and SBR (Surround Back Right)? Configure the 5.1 down mix on the Oppo?

o_O
 
H

herbu

Audioholic Samurai
No Geek squad was right on this one, I verified looked at specs,manual and my Pioneer VSX-52 AVR and only pre amp outputs there.
Sorry, you're right. Looked at the Pioneer site again. Must have looked at the wrong model before.
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
I'm sorry PENG about my statement of "figuring it out." I've received so much good advice, I have trouble processing it all.The Monolith "7" X 200 channel AB AMP will have 7 terminals including the surround SBL and SBR. My front left and right speakers are bi-amped to the amplifier speaker terminals to SBL and SBR.

However, for the RCA analog connection configuration 5.1, do not connect the SBL (surround Back Left) and SBR (Surround Back Right)? Configure the 5.1 down mix on the Oppo?

o_O
Connect the monolith's right, right back, left and left back inputs (RCA) to the Oppo's (or AVR's if that's what you are going to use) right and left analog outputs using Y-adapters, to bi-amp the front right and left channels. In other words, you are using the Monolith's analog input terminals that are labelled "RIGHT BACK" AND "LEFT BACK" for the front right and left channels as well in order to bi-amp those two channels. I hope this is clear enough.

In the Oppo's setup menu, set the downmix option to 5.1. Refer to my page#14 for a little more details.
 
O

ofcr17601

Audioholic Intern
Sorry, you're right. Looked at the Pioneer site again. Must have looked at the wrong model before.
Hey I appreciate the response and acknowledge you didn't have to offer your advise, time and patience with me.

I thought about your advice and may still incorporate my AVR in my home theater.

Thank you
 
O

ofcr17601

Audioholic Intern
You can use the 105D as prepro, others have done it and seemed to like it.

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/threads/oppo-bdp-105-receiver.91073/#post-1037708

Regarding your question on bi-amping left and right channels, yes if you insist on doing it you will obviously be limited to 5.1 unless your power amp has 9 channels.
Hi Peng,

Now I have people advising that I shouldn't Bi-Amp because that IS the function of the amplifier, to provide the extra power to the right and left speakers (all speakers as a matter of fact). Especially since I have the Monoprice 7x200 Amplifier will be more than enough power. Also the Monoprice does not have a BI-Amp feature. Your thoughts please.
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
Hi Peng,

Now I have people advising that I shouldn't Bi-Amp because that IS the function of the amplifier, to provide the extra power to the right and left speakers (all speakers as a matter of fact).
Those people are not alone on this, I thought all of us on this thread advised you the same, that there was no need to bi-amp (passive bi-amp), that it could even be a waste of time if you tried doing it with your receiver. I only tried to tell you how to do it, but only if you insist on doing it. The fact is, you seem determined to do it right from your first post. I also did say that since you now have a real power amp, there is no harm trying it and in fact there are at least theoretical advantages to do it.

Yes the 200WX7 Monolith will provide extra power (compared to you receiver) to the speakers, all channels, but that has little to do with bi-amp or not.

Especially since I have the Monoprice 7x200 Amplifier will be more than enough power.
Depending on your need that may be true. However, if you only use 5 channels you will have 2 channels sitting idle. So if you use them to bi-amp the front left and right channels, you will have even more power reserve for those speakers regardless, not much more but still more.

Also the Monoprice does not have a BI-Amp feature. Your thoughts please.
My thought is that those advising you may not know much about amplifiers. The Monolith 7X200W has 7 independent channels and if you only bi-amp the front right and left channels, you need 2X2+3=7 channels for your 5.1 configuration. So I have no idea what the heck they are talking about. o_O

Bi-amp is mostly not about more power, though in many cases it does offer a little more power depending on several factors. When you bi-amp, you remove the jumper at the speaker terminals, so that the low frequency and higher frequency signals will be amplified by two separate amplifiers. In doing so, believers think better sound quality could be achieved, mainly in the higher frequencies. I am not a believable in practical term but I can vouch for the theory part.

To learn more about bi-amp, you may want to read the article in the following link, I have had a lot of conversations with the writer long before that article was published, so nothing surprised me in his article:

http://www.audioholics.com/frequent-questions/the-difference-between-biamping-vs-biwiring

Also in theory, active bi-amp is the real deal, but if you read what I pasted below from Anthem's FAQ, you will see that the topic is still controversial.

http://www.anthemav.com/support/faq.php

"Doesn't passive biamping waste the amp's power because each channel still has to amplify the full range signal and not just the highs or the lows?

No. With the jumpers removed on a biampable speaker, the impedance of each section is not the usual 4 or 8 ohms, but several hundred if not more at the frequencies that the amp is "not supposed to be amplifying". Higher impedance means less current draw. No meaningful amount of current, no wasted power.

According a recurring audio-myth, only an active crossover should be used for biamping, in order to split the band before the power amp instead of inside the speaker, thereby reducing the amount of work each amp channel has to do. While active crossovers do have their place in PA systems, it should be noted that equalizers are also a part of it.

A generic active crossover on its own merely divides the audio band into smaller ones. The carefully custom-designed crossover in a high performance home audio speaker does a lot more. It is responsible for correcting frequency response aberrations of the individual drivers, maintaining phase coherence between drivers, optimizing off-axis response, balancing levels between drivers, setting up impedance, at times improving woofer performance by rolling off not just the top, but also frequencies that are too low and cause it to misbehave, and other things that vary according to model.

Tearing out the speaker's own finely-tuned crossover to replace it with an active crossover with generic controls almost guarantees that, just for starters, frequency response will be altered. Different sound doesn't mean better sound. Using the passive crossover in the speaker is indeed the correct way to biamp.

(What's biamping? It's using one amp channel for the speaker's mid-high frequency drivers, and another for the low-frequency drivers. The speakers must have separate inputs for this - be sure to remove the jumpers from the speaker inputs first or amp will become instant toast! If one amp starts running out of power, usually the one driving the woofer, then the other side remains clean instead of becoming part of the problem, a double-win. This is the very idea behind bass management and powered subwoofers in home theater systems.)"
 
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Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Slumlord
Tearing out the speaker's own finely-tuned crossover to replace it with an active crossover with generic controls almost guarantees that, just for starters, frequency response will be altered. Different sound doesn't mean better sound. Using the passive crossover in the speaker is indeed the correct way to biamp.
I know this isn't the main topic of this thread and I don't want to hijack it. I just wanted to say that this makes so much sense to me. why would you bypass all the work that went into balancing a speaker as perfectly as possible?

great information in the rest of this post too.

I bi wired (not bi amped) my speakers because I could. I don't spend a ton of dough on cabling and had enough to do it. I figured at worse, no harm done. at best I doubled awg, which isn't a bad thing.
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
I know this isn't the main topic of this thread and I don't want to hijack it. I just wanted to say that this makes so much sense to me. why would you bypass all the work that went into balancing a speaker as perfectly as possible?

great information in the rest of this post too.

I bi wired (not bi amped) my speakers because I could. I don't spend a ton of dough on cabling and had enough to do it. I figured at worse, no harm done. at best I doubled awg, which isn't a bad thing.
Agree, this topic belongs to the bi-amp related threads. Just a quick point, imho, active bi-amp should be good for the DIY experts such as TLSGuy, but probably not recommended for the regular audioholics who just want to get better sound quality out of their speakers that already have crossovers built in. That's my educated guess, would love to hear from Dennis Murphy, a speaker design/manufacture experts who knows everything about crossover designs and he does frequent this site.
 
O

ofcr17601

Audioholic Intern
Agree, this topic belongs to the bi-amp related threads. Just a quick point, imho, active bi-amp should be good for the DIY experts such as TLSGuy, but probably not recommended for the regular audioholics who just want to get better sound quality out of their speakers that already have crossovers built in. That's my educated guess, would love to hear from Dennis Murphy, a speaker design/manufacture experts who knows everything about crossover designs and he does frequent this site.
Hi,
I gotta tell ya I finally got the initiative to connect my OPPO 105D as a PRE-AMP to the Monolith 7x200 using your advice and other audiophiles information on the forum. The audio and video is amazing!!

I still have some troubleshooting to do ie; broke surround back input terminal on Monolith 7X200 manipulating it on stand (fortunately wiring and internal circuit board still in tact), also trying to set up devices in order to appease the lady of the house.

The OPPO105 is an amazing component for home theater. In my modest set up, I disconnected my AVR to allow the OPPO to decode Multi channel analog audio and HDMI-1 video , I purchased Captain America:Civil War blue ray via Apple TV and the video and audio was brilliant!! It decoded it to 7.1 automatically.

I realize I'm not working with a golden ear or hearing not sophisticated as others, but the difference to my ears and vision (on my Pioneer Elite k-111 plasma) is significant. I've had that monitor and a few audio arrangements for it for several years now and it has never looked or sound as good as it does now w/ the OPPO 105D.

Ok I've gloated enuff here. Just wanted to also say thank you to you and other forum members for your advice and patience!
 
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