speakerman39

speakerman39

Audioholic Overlord
Just curious as to whether or not anyone here has any experience with MCACC Pro? I see that is can EQ (2) subs independently. How does this stack up to Audyssey Multi EQ XT32 w/Sub EQ? Furthermore, how does MCACC Pro stack up the the new YPAO found in the Yamaha RX-A3050/2060/3060? I have used both MCACC/YPAO in the past with good results, but have seemed to prefer the workings of Audyssey more. Just curious as to how these stack up to one another. Any and all help would be most appreciated. Thanks!

Cheers,

Phil
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Dunno about the Pro version always handling two subs, had looked at a Pioneer manual for someone recently that had a unit with MCACC Pro but the manual didn't indicate anything about setting up/handling the subs separately ....
 
speakerman39

speakerman39

Audioholic Overlord
Dunno about the Pro version always handling two subs, had looked at a Pioneer manual for someone recently that had a unit with MCACC Pro but the manual didn't indicate anything about setting up/handling the subs separately ....
Which Pioneer AVR was you looking up? Would it happen to be the VSX-1130-K? That seems like a lot of receiver for the money. The newer AVS-1131-K does not have the MCACC Pro or use the ESS Sabre DAC. It seems those have been assigned only to the Elite models from what I garner. I am just curious as to how all of these newer technologies stack up. Onkyo now has what is called Accu EQ Pro Acoustic Calibration w/ AccuRefelx. Can't find much on it. Same for the most advanced YPAO. Onkyo seems to be moving in the direction of Dirac. Not sure what is going to happen to MCACC. Sure is going to be very interesting to say the least. Not a lot out there that I can find.

Cheers,

Phil
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Don't remember model number but think it was one of the two-digit model numbers....maybe an Elite. Might be model specific. Could be interesting if/when Onkyo/Pioneer does Dirac....what with Pioneer being a distributor.
 
speakerman39

speakerman39

Audioholic Overlord
Don't remember model number but think it was one of the two-digit model numbers....maybe an Elite. Might be model specific. Could be interesting if/when Onkyo/Pioneer does Dirac....what with Pioneer being a distributor.
I see. Chris I am not too sure what you mean by Pioneer being a distributor? Word on the street is that Onkyo is going to continue to improve AccuEQ. Have read that the latest rendition is actually better and/or more adjustable. However, it appears that Onkyo has also partnered with Dirac. As such, sooner or later Diract will be incorporated into the Onkyo AVRs. The question is just where will that leave MCACC. An Onkyo Rep whom is a good friend of mine told me that BOTH Onkyo and Pioneer AVRs are being built in the same factories and designed by the same engineers. In fact, the Rep got an Onkyo RZ610 w/a Pioneer remote. Interestigly, he also told me that the RZ610 is the same exact AVR as the TX-NR757 but with a longer warranty. Some odd things going on with Onkyo/Pioneer. Kind of blows my mind if you will.

Cheers,

Phil
 
speakerman39

speakerman39

Audioholic Overlord
So, if Pioneer actually replaces MCACC w/Dirac Live, then what will happen to MCACC? Maybe absorbed into the Onkyo lineup? Kind of makes sense. What is confusing me is that there is some chatter over @AVS about AccuEQ being much improved. Sure is interesting. Guess it is a wait and see game for the most part. Thanks Chris for the link.

Cheers,

Phil
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Maybe just provide MCACC on basic avrs and upsell the Dirac units? Same for Onkyo lineup I'd assume. Anything would be an improvement over the initial AccuEQ....
 
speakerman39

speakerman39

Audioholic Overlord
Maybe just provide MCACC on basic avrs and upsell the Dirac units? Same for Onkyo lineup I'd assume. Anything would be an improvement over the initial AccuEQ....
That would make for a lot of sense. Maybe use MCACC in lower to mid level units, then use MCACC Pro in the upper mid level units. Then, use Dirac Live in the Elites and the Integra Lines. This, of course, would do away with AccuEQ entirely. Might be a very smart move for both Pioneer and Onkyo.

Cheers,

Phil
 
M Code

M Code

Audioholic General
Gibson, parent company of Onkyo, Pioneer, Teac, Tascam, CerwinVega is in dire financial straits..
Over the last 4 years their revenue has decreased by over 50% and they have had significant losses. Going forward...
Pioneer who was outsourcing from Inkel (Vietnam) has now moved the majority of their production to the Onkyo owned factories (2) in Malaysia. Additionally, the consolidation of development resources in Japan between Onkyo and Pioneer has been done. Basic issues are not just CE categories, they own Baldwin pianos, Tobias Bass, Slinglerland Drums and these brands are not doing well due to the slumping music biz...

Going forward..
Onkyo and Pioneer will share AVR development platforms similar to Denon and Marantz... They will have different ID and faceplate tooling but internally use common PCBs.

Just my $0.02... ;)
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Thought Gibson was merely a major shareholder in Onkyo and a majority stake holder in Onkyo USA? Or has that changed?
 
speakerman39

speakerman39

Audioholic Overlord
Gibson, parent company of Onkyo, Pioneer, Teac, Tascam, CerwinVega is in dire financial straits..
Over the last 4 years their revenue has decreased by over 50% and they have had significant losses. Going forward...
Pioneer who was outsourcing from Inkel (Vietnam) has now moved the majority of their production to the Onkyo owned factories (2) in Malaysia. Additionally, the consolidation of development resources in Japan between Onkyo and Pioneer has been done. Basic issues are not just CE categories, they own Baldwin pianos, Tobias Bass, Slinglerland Drums and these brands are not doing well due to the slumping music biz...

Going forward..
Onkyo and Pioneer will share AVR development platforms similar to Denon and Marantz... They will have different ID and faceplate tooling but internally use common PCBs.

Just my $0.02... ;)
That is what my friend that is an Onkyo Rep told me. The Onkyo and Pioneer AVRS are being made in the exact same factories and designed by the same exact engineers. What I am anxious to see if how the Dirac Live/MCACC/AccuEQ evolves. BTW, I have been following your posts over @AVS and how do you feel MCACC Pro compares to Audyssey Multi EQ XT 32 w/Sub EQ HT? Is it true that AccuEQ has vastly improved on the 2016 Onkyo AVRS? Just curious at to what your take is in this since you are in the installation business. I also see that Onkyo is touting AccuEQ Pro w/AccuRefelx. Is it really that much better when compared to the likes of Audyseey/MCACC/YPAO varieties?

Cheers,

Phil
 
M Code

M Code

Audioholic General
That is what my friend that is an Onkyo Rep told me. The Onkyo and Pioneer AVRS are being made in the exact same factories and designed by the same exact engineers. What I am anxious to see if how the Dirac Live/MCACC/AccuEQ evolves. BTW, I have been following your posts over @AVS and how do you feel MCACC Pro compares to Audyssey Multi EQ XT 32 w/Sub EQ HT? Is it true that AccuEQ has vastly improved on the 2016 Onkyo AVRS? Just curious at to what your take is in this since you are in the installation business. I also see that Onkyo is touting AccuEQ Pro w/AccuRefelx. Is it really that much better when compared to the likes of Audyseey/MCACC/YPAO varieties?

Cheers,

Phil
We sell/install all of the major brands so we have experience for each.. In recent times, the emphasis of Auto Room EQ schemes has been overhyped... Before running any EQ sw it is pertinent to set up the loudspeakers and subwoofers properly in the HT room.
IMHO..the most important factor for an AVR is its reliability, especially crucial since we guarantee our systems for 5 years. When we install/setup an AVR we usually run the sw in a manual mode to get a handle on levels, x-overs, delays... Then next we run the sw in the auto mode, and compare results, along with the user. @ times a tweak may be required but before expecting the sw to fix things work with the room and loudspeaker & subwoofer placement.

Note for the EQ sw we have an indepth experience knowing Chris @ Audyssey for over 10 years, along the way we have used each EQ sw and can say they all do an adequate job. Again on some of the forums, some strongly believe that they solve all acoustic issues.. We have found that each brand of EQ sw works well without any single favorite but over the last 4 years they all have improved.
Also here we are partially biased ...
As we have worked with some of the leading audio brands and their DSP development teams and together we have contributed to some of their patents.

Just my $0.02... ;)
 
speakerman39

speakerman39

Audioholic Overlord
We sell/install all of the major brands so we have experience for each.. In recent times, the emphasis of Auto Room EQ schemes has been overhyped... Before running any EQ sw it is pertinent to set up the loudspeakers and subwoofers properly in the HT room.
IMHO..the most important factor for an AVR is its reliability, especially crucial since we guarantee our systems for 5 years. When we install/setup an AVR we usually run the sw in a manual mode to get a handle on levels, x-overs, delays... Then next we run the sw in the auto mode, and compare results, along with the user. @ times a tweak may be required but before expecting the sw to fix things work with the room and loudspeaker & subwoofer placement.

Note for the EQ sw we have an indepth experience knowing Chris @ Audyssey for over 10 years, along the way we have used each EQ sw and can say they all do an adequate job. Again on some of the forums, some strongly believe that they solve all acoustic issues.. We have found that each brand of EQ sw works well without any single favorite but over the last 4 years they all have improved.
Also here we are partially biased ...
As we have worked with some of the leading audio brands and their DSP development teams and together we have contributed to some of their patents.

Just my $0.02... ;)
Yes I am very much aware of how important it is to place said speakers and/or subs properly. Doing so improves such things as imaging. As far as subs, one can reduce the amount of dips/peaks. But more specifically, do you feel as though MCACC Pro is just as effective as Audyssey MultiEQ XT32 w/Sub EQ HT? Have you used the AccuEQ Pro w/AccuReflex? If so, how does it compare to the others? Lastly, do you feel as though AccuEQ is vastly improved for all of the 2016 Onkyo models? Please elaborate? Or, send it to me in a PM. I am trying to learn more about the various Calibration packages.

Cheers,

Phil
 
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speakerman39

speakerman39

Audioholic Overlord
You know back in the day I remember my older brother had a Pioneer avr. Me and my younger brother liked it. One day we got bored and decided to hook up some bazooka tubes that he had laying around. It actually sounded pretty good for about 10-15 minutes. Then, all of a sudden no sound. To make matters worse, smoke was coming from the Pioneer avr. Of course, my older brother was NOT a happy camper.

Skip several years and I bought me an Onkyo avr. It was a refurbished one at that. Gave less than $150 for it and loved it. Later, I owned a much better and more expensive Onkyo. But, it was always so darn hot even playing at low to moderate volume levels. Scared me so I took it back. Ended up with a Pioneer 1015. Even to this very day that is one of the, if not the, best avrs, that I ever owned. Had the Ascend 340 SE's across the front and the 170 SE's in the rear. Sounded very good for the most part. Also, owned a set of Paradigm Studio 20 v.3's. Loved them even more but the tweeter was so fatiguing and the low end was so hot that I sold them off. So, for a while I was happy with the Pioneer 1015 and the 340's/170's.

Went through several Yamaha avr's and liked them for the most part. But, one day I ordered me a Denon. It cost me $600 shipped back in 2003 I think. My first experience with Audyssey. After using MCACC and YPAO all measured from a single point at the MLP, Audyssey sounded much better to my ears. Time goes by and I exited the hobby for various reasons.

Got back in about 3-years ago only to exit it yet again. About a year ago I started slowly, but surely getting back into this hobby. At first just opted for some Polk speakers that I had owned in the past. Honestly thought they would suffice. However, that was not the case. Next thing you know I am all in. Decided to go all out as I am certainly not getting any younger. Ended up with a Marantz for the first time and was wowed for sure. However, I later owned a Denon with MultiEQ XT32 w/Sub EQ HT. Once again I was wowed. Audyssey seems to work for me very well. Measuring from (8) positions seems to work wonders as opposed to only (1). That being said, that is why I am so interested in these different or shall I say newer calibration systems.

Not too long ago I went in a different direction due to some personal issues/setbacks. All of my gear was dismantled. Bought a set of Studio Monitors and bam thought that would be a great decision. However, the Studio Monitors that I purchased did not get the job done. So, back they went. So, in some ways I am back to where I started but with many more limitations per se. In other words, I am NOT going to go into debt again like I was. Many things have changed now and the dust has settled. I am in the need for an avr. I would love to own a Denon AVR x4200 or a Marantz SR6010. However, both are out of my budget. As such, I am looking for the best alternative. Hence, that is why I am trying to cover all of my bases in the hope to get as best of an avr as I can within my budget. Honestly, the Pioneer 1130-K looks real good to me having MCACC Pro. It is supposed to EQ (2) subs. When things change for the better I hope to have a sub or two again. Just not like before due to my budget limitations. One may just do the trick who knows.

Anyways, the newer Pioneer 1131-k does NOT look near as good as the 1130-K to me. The Elites are certainly out of my price range. The Yamahas are looking good to me. But, to get one with Multi-Point YPAO would be nice. I am also hoping to have a 4K avr that is HDCP 2.2 compliant. I am very well aware of Yamaha's reliability reputation. I can also get a super deal on an Onkyo. But, not too sure about the AccuEQ. And, the last time I owned an Onkyo it was always so hot that I thought it was going to catch on fire. That kind of scares me. So, anyone here that has taken the time to read this post/thread have any ideas/suggestions, then by all means please let me know. Even if in a PM. Any and all help will be most appreciated. Thanks for taking the time to reading my post.

Cheers,

Phil
 
speakerman39

speakerman39

Audioholic Overlord
Forgot to mention that I am not opposed to going B-stock say from Acc4less. Might even consider used as well. Wished I could just go w/separates. But, that is certainly out of my budget. Anyways, thanks for the help folks.

Cheers,

Phil
 
Hi Ho

Hi Ho

Audioholic Samurai
Audyssey is a better and more advanced system than MCACC. Period. XT32 w/SubEQ is really unmatched by any of the other mainstream competitors. If your main concern is auto room EQ then you should not even be considering AccuEQ or MCACC. YPAO is better than both of those but still not up to the level of Odyssey.

Audyssey uses FIR filters and works in the time domain to correct issues. It is also the only system that actually EQ's the low bass effectively which is really one of the most important areas for any room correction system. The competitors are simply automated parametric equalizers which are not as effective and none of them do much, if any for low bass.

Having worked as a custom installer for 9 years at a small company I have worked with a lot of brands. Yamaha is by far the most reliable receiver brand. Onkyo is by far the most unreliable. I would never buy one. My next receiver will probably be a Denon because of Audyssey.
 
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speakerman39

speakerman39

Audioholic Overlord
Audyssey is a better and more advanced system than MCACC. Period. XT32 w/SubEQ is really unmatched by any of the other mainstream competitors. If your main concern is auto room EQ then you should not even be considering AccuEQ or MCACC. YPAO is better than both of those but still not up to the level of Odyssey.

Audyssey uses FIR filters and works in the time domain to correct issues. It is also the only system that actually EQ's the low bass effectively which is really one of the most important areas for any room correction system. The competitors are simply automated parametric equalizers which are not as effective and none of them do much, if any for low bass.

Having worked as a custom installer for 9 years at a small company I have worked with a lot of brands. Yamaha is by far the most reliable receiver brand. Onkyo is by far the most unreliable. I would never buy one. My next receiver will probably be a Denon because of Audyssey.
I agree that Audyssey is very good at what it does. Especially, if you have dual subs the Sub EQ HT is a very nice feature to have. However, in the Denon and/or the Marantz that have MultiEQ XT32 w/Sub EQ HT they are out of my price range. I would venture to say that YPAO with RSC and Multi-Point would do a good job for me. Maybe not as much as the MultiEQ XT, but close.

The Denon AVR x2200w is in my budget range as is the Yamaha RX-A850 refurb. However, I am leaning more towards the 850. Have been looking at the Pioneer 1130-K as well. The 1130-K has the MCACC Pro. Was even looking at the Sony 1060, but it only has a single hdmi input that is HPCP 2.2 compliant. As such, have ruled it out. So, it is either the Yammy 850, Denon x2200, or the Pioneer 1130-K. Then, there are several Onkyo's in that price range as well. However, it sounds like I am better off not going in that direction. Therefore, of the (3) that I have narrowed it down to which of the (3) would you opt for? Thanks for your help. It is very informative.

Cheers,

Phil
 
Hi Ho

Hi Ho

Audioholic Samurai
I wasn't considering budget. I was only considering the technical merits of the room correction systems. In your case I don't think you could go wrong with either the Yamaha or the Denon. Both are nice units. I do believe Yamaha makes a more reliable product but I also still believe Audyssey beats YPAO even at that level.
 
speakerman39

speakerman39

Audioholic Overlord
I wasn't considering budget. I was only considering the technical merits of the room correction systems. In your case I don't think you could go wrong with either the Yamaha or the Denon. Both are nice units. I do believe Yamaha makes a more reliable product but I also still believe Audyssey beats YPAO even at that level.
Very good point all well taken. I noticed that you didn't even mention the Pioneer 1130-K so I assume you are not too enthused with the MCACC Pro? From what I can see, the MCACC Pro does allow for a lot of tweaking which may or may not even pay off. It is a bit of a risk inmho. Looks like I would be much better off with either the Yammy 850 or the Denon 2200. Going to take a closer look at these two then. Thanks once again for your help. BTW, I see you over @AVS posting sometimes.

Cheers,

Phil
 
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