questions about aa philharmonics

Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Slumlord
okay. I currently have deftech sm 55's for my main front speakers. I've been reading a lot about the aa philharmonics, but obviously have never heard them. I really am pretty happy with my sm 55's. I have a denon avr s510bt driving them and paired them with 2 sb 1000 subwoofers. the subs are a must with these speakers, as I'm sure the same will be for the aa's.

what I'm thinking is I could easily get 300 for my sm 55's and that would more than pay for a pair of aa's. does anyone have any experience hearing both? would the aa's big a big improvement, more incremental ot a lateral move? I know deftech gets a tough rap for fudging some of their specs, but imo they still make good speakers.

I have to admit, I haven't auditioned a lot of really high end audio, though I can definitely appreciate it when I hear it. I recently upgraded to the aforementioned sb 1000's and it has probably made the biggest difference in improving my system as a whole. they far exceeded my expectations and really cleaned it up (thank you for your patience and guidance lovinthehd).

my second consideration would be replacing my cs 8040hd center channel. from what I've read, I could give Phil a call and ask if what I have would work with the aa's?

I'm just kicking the idea around right now. if I could replace my sm 55's and have a little left over toward a matching center and make another big improvement to my system I might just do it. I'm looking for some opinions from anyone familiar with one or both sets of speakers I'm inquiring about. I feel like I might be splitting hairs or only making a small gain with this, but damnit. I've been bit.
 
BoredSysAdmin

BoredSysAdmin

Audioholic Slumlord
Deftech's SM55 measurements (at NRC) are here:
http://www.soundstagenetwork.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=789:nrc-measurements-definitive-technology-studiomonitor-55-loudspeakers&catid=77:loudspeaker-measurements&Itemid=18
To my untrained eye - they look ok, but not great. I believe AA's would be sound better, but you'd be the judge of how much.

Also I won't call ether SM55 or AA's as High-End audio - they both in the end are budget products.
I think Dennis recommends stock Pioneer SP-C22 for matching center, but I could be wrong.
 
ski2xblack

ski2xblack

Audioholic Field Marshall
I have not heard both, but I strongly suspect the aa's are more refined than the DT's. Just less compromise with a Dennis Murphy network vs. a commercial offering (lowest common denominator, bottom dollar, highest margin approach), but still probably a lateral move.

Take that wild guesswork for what it is, wild guesswork. I do think you would be best served by saving up for higher tier Philharmonics down the line. That would be a worthy jump.
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Slumlord
gotcha. I'm sure I'd be impressed with the aa's, but pretty happy with the 55's. I know both offerings are more budget oriented. I've been doing a lot of research and am floored by how much you can spend on true high end audio. I'm definitely on the budget end of the scale for sure.

you guys pretty much confirmed what I thought. to truly take another big step, I'd better start saving up. that works too. what I have sounds pretty good for the money I spent. thanks for the replies.
 
lsiberian

lsiberian

Audioholic Overlord
If you are already happy I suggest saving your money for something else.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
I built a pair of the Dayton BR-1 kit speakers, which is what Dennis uses to make the AA; I even bought a set of his crossovers later but I had glued the old xover in a little too well :) so will end up using them this winter in a diy version (my own boxes this time). Had the AAs been available I'd have just bought them from Dennis. The BR-1s on their own are nice speakers, I've not heard the SM55 but also suspect more a lateral move from them to the AA and agree to save up for a more significant change.
 
BoredSysAdmin

BoredSysAdmin

Audioholic Slumlord
These look pretty sweet, and not on another planet as far as being too far out of reach for me. It would be an achievable goal for me with a little saving.

http://philharmonicaudio.com/New Philharmonitor.html
I don't think Dennis is making a killing on these. Rough estimation of box and drivers alone is at $750 range. Add another at the least $100 or so in crossover parts, wires and you'll see - he's not doing it to get rich and famous :)
 
KEW

KEW

Audioholic Overlord
okay. I currently have deftech sm 55's for my main front speakers. I've been reading a lot about the aa philharmonics, but obviously have never heard them. I really am pretty happy with my sm 55's. I have a denon avr s510bt driving them and paired them with 2 sb 1000 subwoofers. the subs are a must with these speakers, as I'm sure the same will be for the aa's.
IMHO, that would be a poor assumption. The DefTechs appear to be -3dB at around 90Hz while the AA's are almost a full octave lower: -3db at 48Hz (and they do not roll off fast - everyone I have had listen to them has been astounded with the depth of their output). The AA's are among the best bass I have ever heard from a 6.5" speaker!
So if you did not have the subs, the AA upgrade would be a no-brainer for you.
However, since you have the subs, one of the major benefits of the AA's is lost on you.
I don't like the 7dB glitch in the DefTech FR around 800Hz and believe that the AA's would sound better.
Unfortunately, the next step up in Philharmonics offerings is a big step.
If your budget is too tight to support that big of a step, I would suggest a couple of options.

1) Similar to your above proposal with the AA's, you can try the Sony Core 5" for $170 from Best Buy with 14 days to return them. Disregarding the bass (since you have the subs), these are fairly good sounding speakers. Not quite as good as the AA's, but I think they will surpass your DefTech in many of the same ways as the AA's would.
If you notice a worthwhile improvement from the Sony's, you have the option of keeping them or returning them and buying the AA's (which sound similar).
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/sony-core-series-5-3-way-bookshelf-speakers-pair-black/5721014.p?skuId=5721014&ref=212&loc=1&ksid=c06f712c-2a14-4bab-8223-b004bb4a2b14&ksprof_id=16&ksaffcode=pg107674&ksdevice=c&gclid=CPL_p_iTsM8CFYs7gQodp2kCqw

2) Buy B-stock SVS Ultra Bookshelf speakers at $800/pr. These are a very well-rounded pair of speakers and the only speakers I have heard that best the AA's (the bass is almost as good) for $1000 or less. At $1000, you should save more and get the Philharmonitors, but if B-stock is available, these are very good speakers at $800! Also, SVS may give you an additional discount since you have bought from them (but may not apply to B-Stock)
http://www.svsound.com/collections/outlet-specials/products/ultra-bookshelf-piano-outlet-1099

3) Get the Philharmonitors for $1150 (plus shipping)!
http://philharmonicaudio.com/New Philharmonitor.html
 
S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Staff member
Deftech's SM55 measurements (at NRC) are here:
http://www.soundstagenetwork.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=789:nrc-measurements-definitive-technology-studiomonitor-55-loudspeakers&catid=77:loudspeaker-measurements&Itemid=18
To my untrained eye - they look ok, but not great. I believe AA's would be sound better, but you'd be the judge of how much.

Also I won't call ether SM55 or AA's as High-End audio - they both in the end are budget products.
I think Dennis recommends stock Pioneer SP-C22 for matching center, but I could be wrong.
That spike around 600 Hz is weird, I am not sure what that would be due to. Maybe something going on with the passive radiator?
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Slumlord
wow. some great replies.

kew, I love the suggestion of taking the sony's for a test run to get a feel for the aa's, but I'm pretty sure I'm gonna want to save some more and shoot a little higher. like the philharmonitor I linked above. I'm also open to svs as I'm very impressed with these little subs I got from them. they hit above their diminutive appearance and exceeded my expectations, so svs ultra are also very enticing to me. I don't have a problem with b stock either.

boredsys and shady, I really appreciate the feedback on those measurements for my 55's. I haven't looked at a lot of those charts, but grasp the basics of them and your comments helped me understand what I was looking at a little better.

lovin, those Sierra 2's look amazing, but starting to get into out of budget range for me. I'd love to audition them though.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
lovin, those Sierra 2's look amazing, but starting to get into out of budget range for me. I'd love to audition them though.
My apologies, meant that as a slightly more affordable option, as I misread the New Philharmonitor description/price as being for $1100 each, forgot he does pair pricing.
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Slumlord
Awwww! It's so cute the first time one of the children says that!
hey man, we all gotta start somewhere. I've gotten great advice and suggestions here. there aren't a whole lot of places left any more where you can listen to good speakers in action.

almost 20 years ago when I was into car audio I had a friend who was into high end home audio. we took a drive to a high end shop and I got to listen to some really nice stuff. they had maggies and some ridiculously priced amps/preamps driving them along with a whole other bunch of similar expensive, esoteric brands that you'd need a second mortgage to afford. they also had a preowned section which is where I got my old b&w's.

my uncle worked for dr alan hill, the president of plasmatronics (my uncle was the vice president) in new mexico who invented plasma speakers, a massless driver design, which were a trip. you could blow out the plasma stream and the sound would stop until it "reignited". I got to listen to and play around with some of the early versions. fascinating design and sounded amazing, but were pretty impractical. i dunno if they ever really took off.

anyway, I have dipped my toes into the high end audio world, but my experiences are 20 to almost 30 years ago and there have been some advances since then. I do know enough that my budget won't allow true high end audio, but I might be able to swing around a grand or so for some mains with a little saving. like I said, I don't have a lot of options for auditioning much which is why I'm here asking questions and have gotten some great replies.

I don't have the funds yet, but I think I'm between the svs ultras or the philharmonitors at this point. the philharmonitors spec very nicely and the folks here rave about dennis' work. the ultras are a little less and I have some experience with svs subs and love them. plus gene and hugo really seemed to like them.
 
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Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Slumlord
I just looked up svs ultra on ebay and it looks like a pair can be found pretty handily for 900 open box from authorized dealers. also stumbled across this. if I were still looking for a sub...
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Slumlord
my wife wants a fancy new laptop. guess who finagled a negotiation that includes a pair of svs ultra bookshelf speakers...

I told her it was a lot of money to spend on a laptop with features she probably won't even use. tried hard to talk her out of it. then she said, "well if you want those speakers, then I want that laptop." I then said, "I think that would be a GREAT laptop for you! I'll order it right now! lol

I officially have permission now! prolly gonna be a Christmas thing, but that's fine. I'm a happy camper now. I can get a pair of them for 900 bucks open box all day on ebay. if you guys know of anything better in that price range I'm open to suggestion. the philharmonitors look fantastic, but they're also a few hundred more so I've got my sights set pretty firmly on the ultras for now. I'm stoked.
 
speakerman39

speakerman39

Audioholic Overlord
my wife wants a fancy new laptop. guess who finagled a negotiation that includes a pair of svs ultra bookshelf speakers...

I told her it was a lot of money to spend on a laptop with features she probably won't even use. tried hard to talk her out of it. then she said, "well if you want those speakers, then I want that laptop." I then said, "I think that would be a GREAT laptop for you! I'll order it right now! lol

I officially have permission now! prolly gonna be a Christmas thing, but that's fine. I'm a happy camper now. I can get a pair of them for 900 bucks open box all day on ebay. if you guys know of anything better in that price range I'm open to suggestion. the philharmonitors look fantastic, but they're also a few hundred more so I've got my sights set pretty firmly on the ultras for now. I'm stoked.
You might want to check the SVS Outlet and get a set of B-stock Ultra Bookshelfs. They usually go for about $800 a set with the same warranty. BTW, The Ultras are fantastic sounding speakers. One of the best that I ever owned. Very good choice!

https://www.svsound.com/collections/outlet-specials/products/ultra-bookshelf-piano-outlet-1121

Cheers,

Phil
 
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Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Slumlord
You might want to check the SVS Outlet and get a set of B-stock Ultra Bookshelfs. They usually go for about $800 a set with the same warranty. BTW, The Ultra are fantastic sounding speakers. One of the best that I ever owned. Very good choice!

https://www.svsound.com/collections/outlet-specials/products/ultra-bookshelf-piano-outlet-1121

Cheers,

Phil
I will definitely keep an eye on the outlet. that's an even better deal, and I'd much rather purchase direct from svs anyway. thank you for the link!
 
speakerman39

speakerman39

Audioholic Overlord
I will definitely keep an eye on the outlet. that's an even better deal, and I'd much rather purchase direct from svs anyway. thank you for the link!
No problem. If you have any questions feel free to call SVS and ask for Ed Mullen. He will be glad to help you. Keep us posted.


Cheers,

Phil
 
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