Best bang for the buck upgrade to my 2.1 system

[dozerhead]

I currently own a Outlaw r2150 receiver with swan 6.1 divas as my mains, with a SVS pb12 nsd sub. I was wondering what part of my system makes more sense to upgrade? With the sub I have now I have to hook it to the Outlaws second set of speaker terminals because It does not have the newer svs sub amp. I have to use the crossover at the sub not the receiver so Im not sure Im getting the most out of my reciever? I was wondering if theres a set of bookshelf speakers that would make my swans look bad and go that route? Truthfully I just need some help. I would like to upgrade around a budget of 1000 dollars im not sure thats even possible but any advice i would apreciate. Thank you

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

For 1k I highly doubt you could upgrade anything, well except the sub. PB12 nsd is very competent sub and would bring solid value as 2nd hand if you decide to sell it.
But now at 1k there are much better subs.
http://www.powersoundaudio.com/collections/subwoofers/products/s1500
or
http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/uls-15mk2.html

For your mains 1k would not do much - Your current mains were $1200 new and they were great value even then. To gain noticeable upgrade you'd need increase the budget a bit for these:
http://philharmonicaudio.com/New Philharmonitor.html
or if you like to stick to tower size:
http://philharmonicaudio.com/slims.html

 

[j_garcia]

If you aren't finding something lacking, I'd actually say your current setup is quite good. Agree that the bang for the buck will be the sub. Maybe a SB2000 which is sealed and will give you maybe a little less oomph, but will be more musical IMO.

The Rythmik F15HP and E15HP can be had around 1200-1300, but would be a big step up from the PB12, as would the HSU or PSA http://rythmikaudio.com/E15.html

 

[dozerhead]

Thank you for your quick replies. Its nice to hear my setup is quite good J Garcia. Im pretty new to this hobby. At the time I bought this system I did countless hrs of research online. Where I live I dont have the opportunity to actually audition anything unless its from a store like best buy,and thats hrs away LOL.

Ill do some research on what you guys put out there. Thank you

 

[Seth=L]

I currently own a Outlaw r2150 receiver with swan 6.1 divas as my mains, with a SVS pb12 nsd sub.

I assume you meant RR2150? That's a pretty decent setup. Is this in a large room?

With the sub I have now I have to hook it to the Outlaws second set of speaker terminals because It does not have the newer svs sub amp.

*scratches head*

Does your subwoofer's amplifier look like this one?

You would want to connect the subwoofer output on the RR2150 to the input shown here with a cable connected.

I have to use the crossover at the sub not the receiver so Im not sure Im getting the most out of my reciever?

I'd wouldn't say it has a profound impact on the receiver's performance, however if you're Swans and the SVS are playing the same frequencies they may cancel each other out or create bass humps that would certainly present an uneven bass response.

I was wondering if theres a set of bookshelf speakers that would make my swans look bad and go that route?

That depends on your listening habits and preferences. Someone like me would generally prefer smaller speakers for a couple of reasons. I live in an apartment so high output isn't really a concern of mine and I'd have trouble finding suitable positions for larger floor standing speakers. I also happen to believe bookshelf/monitors typically offer a better value for one's money. The two main caveats with monitors is a lack of low frequency output and limited dynamic capabilities.

There are exceptions to the rule on monitors, as I've heard many praise the KEF LS50 for being quite dynamic despite it's minuscule size and has an impressive amount of low frequency output.

Truthfully I just need some help. I would like to upgrade around a budget of 1000 dollars im not sure thats even possible but any advice i would apreciate. Thank you
I was wondering what part of my system makes more sense to upgrade?

You'll noticed I moved part of your quote because it made since to answer these questions at the same time as they are very similar.

$1000 of free and ready to use cash is helpful. If you wanted to upgrade say your speakers or your subwoofer you could sell your current speakers or subwoofer to supplement your funds. So let's say you could sell your Swans for approximately $400-600 and/or the subwoofer for $300-350. You could have somewhere in the neighborhood of $1500 to spend on your upgrade.

If you have no interest in home theater or multichannel music I suggest keeping the Outlaw for the time being, it will probably suit you fine and I can't see any advantage upgrading it.

What is it that you find lacking currently? Are your speakers fatiguing, do they just not excite you? Do you find the subwoofer to perform as well as you would like, do you feel anything is missing there? Have you tried cost free upgrades such as messing with speaker and subwoofer positioning and settings?

If I had to pick something in that setup to upgrade myself it would most likely be the speakers. I don't have any experience with Hi-Vi Swans Diva series speakers, but what I can deduce is that while they are a stellar value for their appearance and class they may concede a little in fidelity to meet a certain aesthetic appeal. This is purely speculation on my part, but when I look at a product like the Philharmonic BMR I can't help but think this product likely has a lot more to offer sonically than a Hi-Vi product based on reputation alone.

Speakers are peculiar and how we perceive sound is equally intriguing. While someone people love Klipsch's horn loaded speakers others detest them. What is pleasing to you may be nails on a chalkboard to someone else. Audioholics certainly has developed the reputation for the search of accuracy before most everything else, but if the most accurate speaker sounds terrible to you then what was the point?

If someone in your system isn't living up to your expectations, change it. Find something you like better and replace what is lacking. Just because a speaker costs more than another does not inherantly mean you will like it better. You may find you'd enjoy listening to a pair of $200 Philharmonic AA monitors more than a pair of $16,000 Bower & Wilkins. You have to let your ears decide what sounds best to you.

Best of luck my friend, may you find sonic bliss.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

I thought what Seth is saying and here's another interesting option: Keep everything you have, but add a MiniDSP to implement proper bass management and possibly manual room EQ with their Umic and REW

 

[dozerhead]

Thank you for the detailed reply Seth=L.

My room is fairly large 27 foot wide by 32 foot deep and at the back of the room there are two different angles on both sides. Hard to explain but at the back of the room it also opens up to the rest of the house.

On the Scratches head part. My sub does not look like that it does not have the One cable hookup like on my receiver it has the sub out jack the sub does not have this so I have to hook it up with speaker wire.

As you can tell Im new to this forum deal and Im not sure how to cut and paste to make everything look so good like you guy do. Bear with me Ill learn lol

I am actually pleased with my Swans 6.1 divas. They look great and sound better than anything ive had before. I guess I just have the bug to try something different. I do not plan on selling them.

Just for the record my listening area is about 8 feet away from the speakers if that matters much.

 

[dozerhead]

Mini dsp I will look into that I have no idea what that even is.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

Mini dsp I will look into that I have no idea what that even is.

http://www.audioholics.com/home-theater-calibration/bass-optimization-for-home-theater

 

[lovinthehd]

On the Scratches head part. My sub does not look like that it does not have the One cable hookup like on my receiver it has the sub out jack the sub does not have this so I have to hook it up with speaker wire.

Just for the record my listening area is about 8 feet away from the speakers if that matters much.

You can't hook your sub up with a single rca cable? Got a pic?

While distance from speakers is one thing, your sub sees the whole space. You might benefit from another sub.

 

[ski2xblack]

Get a second sub, or sell yours, add the proceeds to your budget, and get a pair of slightly better subs.

 

[Swerd]

Before you spend any money, make sure you are using your sub and receiver correctly.

The SVS PB12 NSD subwoofer is self-powered. It should not be connected to a second set of speaker outputs on your Outaw RR2150. Instead, use the SUB OUT jack (lower center of the photo below) to run a single cable from the RR2150 to the Line In jacks on the back of your subwoofer. (Read the subwoofer's manual to find out which Line In jack to use for a single cable set up.) This way all of the RR2150's power will be available to drive only the Swan speakers.

 

[Seth=L]

I agree with Swerd and it seems unlikely that an SVS subwoofer with a built in amplifier would only have high level inputs. In fact I've never seen such a thing.

 

[j_garcia]

The older ones actually did not have speaker level inputs; only line level, before the Sledge amps.

 

[Seth=L]

The older ones actually did not have speaker level inputs; only line level, before the Sledge amps.

Did not know that, I learned something new today.

 

[dozerhead]

Before you spend any money, make sure you are using your sub and receiver correctly.

The SVS PB12 NSD subwoofer is self-powered. It should not be connected to a second set of speaker outputs on your Outaw RR2150. Instead, use the SUB OUT jack (lower center of the photo below) to run a single cable from the RR2150 to the Line In jacks on the back of your subwoofer. (Read the subwoofer's manual to find out which Line In jack to use for a single cable set up.) This way all of the RR2150's power will be available to drive only the Swan speakers.

My SVS sub has a low level in and out rca input and speaker cable hookups that are left and right input
and high level output. I have my speaker cables hooked to the Input speaker jacks.

Is there a Y splitter I could use from my rca jacks to the sub out on my Receiver?

 

[j_garcia]

My SVS sub has a low level in and out rca input and speaker cable hookups that are left and right input
and high level output. I have my speaker cables hooked to the Input speaker jacks.

Is there a Y splitter I could use from my rca jacks to the sub out on my Receiver?

You can use any Y splitter, but technically, you don't need one. The manual should say which one to use when using only one input, but in most cases it doesn't matter since they are summed into one anyway. There are two for those who don't have a sub preamp output.

 

[Swerd]

My SVS sub has a low level in and out rca input and speaker cable hookups that are left and right input
and high level output. I have my speaker cables hooked to the Input speaker jacks.

Is there a Y splitter I could use from my rca jacks to the sub out on my Receiver?

Exactly what j_garcia says. See page 7 Input Configuration of the SVS owners manual https://system.na1.netsuite.com/core/media/media.nl?id=551&c=3634088&h=16c22533f65550b8fe0c&_xt=.pdf

"The subwoofer signal cable runs from the “Subwoofer Pre-Out” on the AVR or pre/pro to either the Left or Right low level input of your sub. It does not matter which you use."​

On your Outlaw RR2150, the SUB OUT jack is the equivalent of what the SVS manual describes as the "Subwoofer Pre-Out" jack. A single cable with RCA plugs on each end is all you need to make the connection.

 

[KEW]

This is my opinion based on my experience. Pease read it and if it resonates with your experience, it is useful. If not, nevermind!

I had the SVS SB12 plus and found it was muddy and boomy. The bass seemed amazingly strong for the smaller box, but it did not sound clean and obscured some of the music. I would generally be inclined to believe that the PB12 nsd may be worse than the SB12 plus on this count. A good test might be to temporarily pull the sub maybe 4 feet or more away from the walls and see if your music sounds at least a little better (the walls reinforce the bass). If this fits your experience, then you should look real hard at the S1500 by PSA. To my ear, it is as tight and articulate as my Rythmik E15HP and costs less.
Now if you are a movie fanatic, the extra bass of the PB12 nsd might be welcome even if it is not as well controlled as it should be.
From my perspective, a proper sub should disappear and never call attention to the fact that there is a sub, it just seems like your speakers have exceptional bass. However, many companies find it is better marketing to sell a sub that will yell "Hey, notice me" and impress your friends with it's dramatic low frequency output.

 

[lovinthehd]

This is my opinion based on my experience. Pease read it and if it resonates with your experience, it is useful. If not, nevermind!

I had the SVS SB12 plus and found it was muddy and boomy. The bass seemed amazingly strong for the smaller box, but it did not sound clean and obscured some of the music. I would generally be inclined to believe that the PB12 nsd may be worse than the SB12 plus on this count. A good test might be to temporarily pull the sub maybe 4 feet or more away from the walls and see if your music sounds at least a little better (the walls reinforce the bass). If this fits your experience, then you should look real hard at the S1500 by PSA. To my ear, it is as tight and articulate as my Rythmik E15HP and costs less.
Now if you are a movie fanatic, the extra bass of the PB12 nsd might be welcome even if it is not as well controlled as it should be.
From my perspective, a proper sub should disappear and never call attention to the fact that there is a sub, it just seems like your speakers have exceptional bass. However, many companies find it is better marketing to sell a sub that will yell "Hey, notice me" and impress your friends with it's dramatic low frequency output.

To me, the differences from these subs should have been minimal and differences more likely related to positioning and setup and eq....but I wasn't there.