I feel like a bird looking up at the sky waiting for it to fall

jinjuku

jinjuku

Moderator
"Received their appropriation"- that means what, exactly? That makes up for being blamed for everything from bad economies, Plagues, government failures and the 6 million who were exterminated during WWII? Yeah, that would make everything OK.
No where did I say it was ok. But they were given hard borders and the ability to 100% self determine w/o undue oversight.

I hope some members here of other backgrounds can chime in for some other perspectives.
 
jinjuku

jinjuku

Moderator
The cop was trying to shoot the Autistic kid, but....
That never looks good in print

Under pressure, shooting accuracy is reported to be in the 18% range, even with training- at the range, it's about 94%. Killing a piece of paper is a lot easier and I have to wonder if it has to do with a brief thought about the fact that it's a real person in the sights.
Probably time to get a scope on them there rifles. Then they could see what they are shooting at before they shoot :)

From the first report I read, the cop was asked why he shot the man and he said "I don't know". Sounds like he panicked- that doesn't sound like anything else, to me.
I know humans are fallible but this is one of those situations that THIS CANNOT HAPPEN. It's 100% unacceptable. There is a lack or training, core competency, proper equipment, ability to listen. Whatever the case may be. Miami will certainly deserve the civil and possible criminal suites heading their way.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
That never looks good in print



Probably time to get a scope on them there rifles. Then they could see what they are shooting at before they shoot :)



I know humans are fallible but this is one of those situations that THIS CANNOT HAPPEN. It's 100% unacceptable. There is a lack or training, core competency, proper equipment, ability to listen. Whatever the case may be. Miami will certainly deserve the civil and possible criminal suites heading their way.
He didn't use a rifle. If they use rifles for close range, they're fools and if they use pistols for long range, ditto.

People who aren't police are even worse, so I don't know what point you're trying to make. Non-police shooters probably hit less than the 18% of their intentional targets, but they sure do hit a lot of people, anyway.
 
Steve81

Steve81

Audioholics Five-0
The Jews have been treated badly for a couple of thousand years- why are they prosperous?
...
Native Americans have been treated in ways Blacks never were.
You might consider that different forms of cruelty have different long term effects. Treating people as second class citizens, or even committing genocide is a very different thing from slavery. Today we're well insulated from having to think too much about what slavery entailed. Suffice it to say, it wasn't just working for no pay under the master's whip. Families were torn apart, marriage was outlawed, education was outlawed, etc. for generations. Even for families that remained together, the rules/words of the parents always meant less than those of the man holding the whip. Ultimately, slavery created cyclical problems that are difficult to overcome. Doubly so when after achieving "freedom", African Americans got to suffer through Jim Crow, "separate but equal", etc. that stifled educational, economic, and social opportunities. This doesn't excuse things like shooting police officers today, but if you don't understand why the problems exist, you can't possibly address them in a meaningful manner.
 
Steve81

Steve81

Audioholics Five-0
He didn't use a rifle.
I've read at least one account that he did, at a range in excess of 50 yards.
http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/crime/article91160077.html

Then, while Kinsey was lying supine with his hands in the air and the autistic man sat beside him, an officer fired three rounds from an assault rifle, according to North Miami police. One bullet found a target — Kinsey.

He was shot in the leg and transported to Jackson Memorial Hospital, where he continues to recover. Kinsey is expected to be released this week.

According to a law-enforcement source, the officer who shot Kinsey was taking cover behind a squad car and fired from at least 50 yards away. He shot after another officer, in a radio transmission, suggested the autistic man was loading his weapon, which turned out to be the toy truck, the source said.
 
jinjuku

jinjuku

Moderator
He didn't use a rifle. If they use rifles for close range, they're fools and if they use pistols for long range, ditto.

People who aren't police are even worse, so I don't know what point you're trying to make. Non-police shooters probably hit less than the 18% of their intentional targets, but they sure do hit a lot of people, anyway.
My point is they are the "pro". They are supposed to be the material experts in all of this.

They took three shots at person with pretty severe needs and a toy and shot the one person that had their schitt together and was trying to deescalate the situation. The reason this all happened is the militarization of our police force. When I've gone hunting my dad always stressed you have to be 100% sure what you are shooting at. They didn't. Because if they did they wouldn't have. It really is that simple sometimes. They need to own up to this.

What are you not getting about this? I'll try and do a better job of explaining the absurdity of it.
 
C

Chu Gai

Audioholic Samurai
Do the problems exist because of slavery or is slavery also being used as an excuse as to why there are problems in the sundry black communities?
 
Steve81

Steve81

Audioholics Five-0
Do the problems exist because of slavery
They exist because the culture that slavery instilled over the course of generations, and on both sides of the table, couldn't and didn't go away overnight.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
My point is they are the "pro". They are supposed to be the material experts in all of this.

They took three shots at person with pretty severe needs and a toy and shot the one person that had their schitt together and was trying to deescalate the situation. The reason this all happened is the militarization of our police force. When I've gone hunting my dad always stressed you have to be 100% sure what you are shooting at. They didn't. Because if they did they wouldn't have. It really is that simple sometimes. They need to own up to this.

What are you not getting about this? I'll try and do a better job of explaining the absurdity of it.
I get it, but I also know/have known a lot of cops and not a single one is a gung ho idiot but then, they're mostly older and have families. If the younger ones are into the "shoot first, ask questions later" mentality, I have to wonder if they have a close relationship with anyone or if they just hang out with others like them. Come to think of it, I did meet a bunch of those pinheads a long time ago at a party I went to with a cop and his wife- the guys who were fresh out of the academy were talking like they were all bad-ass and wanted to clean up the streets. I hope they left the force as quickly as they joined.

If they missed because they just can't shoot well, they should be pulled until they get their head on straight and if they need a psych evaluation, so be it- maybe they can get rid of a few bad ones.
 
jinjuku

jinjuku

Moderator
I get it, but I also know/have known a lot of cops and not a single one is a gung ho idiot but then, they're mostly older and have families. If the younger ones are into the "shoot first, ask questions later" mentality, I have to wonder if they have a close relationship with anyone or if they just hang out with others like them. Come to think of it, I did meet a bunch of those pinheads a long time ago at a party I went to with a cop and his wife- the guys who were fresh out of the academy were talking like they were all bad-ass and wanted to clean up the streets. I hope they left the force as quickly as they joined.

If they missed because they just can't shoot well, they should be pulled until they get their head on straight and if they need a psych evaluation, so be it- maybe they can get rid of a few bad ones.
It's the culture that needs to be changed though. There is a youtube video of someone sitting in their car, eating oatmeal, at the hotel they are staying at. There is a cop just constantly banging on his window and asking questions.

The issue is partly that LEO but also his partner that is just sitting back in the squad car not correcting this idiot. That's one of the real issues. You aren't a good cop if you simply don't call out the bad apples.

Remember the saying "a few bad apples spoil the bunch".
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
They exist because the culture that slavery instilled over the course of generations, and on both sides of the table, couldn't and didn't go away overnight.
Blacks fought and died during WWII and it took a long time for most of the military to integrate. Then, when the war was over, they still couldn't eat at any restaurant they wanted because it was still "Whites only in the restaurant, Blacks go around back".

Who wouldn't be PO'd about that? People in this country have been too willing to use double standards until they were forced to change.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
It's the culture that needs to be changed though. There is a youtube video of someone sitting in their car, eating oatmeal, at the hotel they are staying at. There is a cop just constantly banging on his window and asking questions.

The issue is partly that LEO but also his partner that is just sitting back in the squad car not correcting this idiot. That's one of the real issues. You aren't a good cop if you simply don't call out the bad apples.

Remember the saying "a few bad apples spoil the bunch".
I would think like minded cops request assignments together- I can't imagine two opposite-minded officers working well together.
 
jinjuku

jinjuku

Moderator
I just want to post this quote when a certain portion of the populace is blamed for the problems they face. Just some hard data to consider:


https://www.propublica.org/article/common-roadside-drug-test-routinely-produces-false-positives

"In our own examination of those 212 cases — thousands of pages of arrest reports, court filings and laboratory-testing records, along with interviews of prosecutors, police executives, officers, defense attorneys and innocent defendants who pleaded guilty — we saw a clear story about both who is being arrested and what is happening to them. The racial disparity is stark. Blacks made up 59 percent of those wrongfully convicted in a city where they are 24 percent of the population, reflecting a similar racial disparity in drug enforcement nationally. Patrol units, not trained narcotics detectives, appeared to be the most prolific field-test users."

A race of peoples can't get ahead when this goes on.
 
C

Chu Gai

Audioholic Samurai
I just want to post this quote when a certain portion of the populace is blamed for the problems they face. Just some hard data to consider:


https://www.propublica.org/article/common-roadside-drug-test-routinely-produces-false-positives

"In our own examination of those 212 cases — thousands of pages of arrest reports, court filings and laboratory-testing records, along with interviews of prosecutors, police executives, officers, defense attorneys and innocent defendants who pleaded guilty — we saw a clear story about both who is being arrested and what is happening to them. The racial disparity is stark. Blacks made up 59 percent of those wrongfully convicted in a city where they are 24 percent of the population, reflecting a similar racial disparity in drug enforcement nationally. Patrol units, not trained narcotics detectives, appeared to be the most prolific field-test users."

A race of peoples can't get ahead when this goes on.
There are two problems illustrated. The first is that the drug tests administered have limited accuracy and need to be confirmed by more specific methods. The second is plea bargaining which seems to occur with great frequency. Notorious among public defenders and not unknown with hired attorneys done often when all the facts have yet to be determined. That affects all races and ethnicities particularly those who cannot afford a robust criminal defense.

In the example you cited, the woman was white. Apparently she didn't know her boyfriend very well who was something like 13 years younger. I can only imagine she started having second thoughts about what he was into. Recently the cops pulled over some white guy and found a white flake on the carpet that they suspected was crystal meth or something. Turned out to be some sugar that came off a Krispy Kreme donut.

It's ironical that we have made serious and sincere efforts to get the call right when it comes to tennis, football, baseball, and basketball. But things like you mention where people's lives are on the line, we are still relying on unskilled umps and refs. Getting it right should transcend whether one is republican or democrat.

My wife works for a city agency. One of the program's she was/is involved in is to evaluate the reinstatement of ex-felons back into things like public housing where they can once again be reunited with their families. It's an involved process but she has told me of one instance where a guy had plea bargained via a public defender to a lesser sentence. The review committee was leery about reinstating him. My wife was not. She pointed out the man had never had a prior. Had a job, provided for his family, not an addict, abuser, or any indications he was violent. But even having a good job doesn't mean you can get an attorney you can afford to fight for you. She won and so far so good.

So I don't see this coming down on racial lines, Jijuku, but rather on economic lines. If you're rich and that tends to even exclude the middle class, you've got a better chance.
 
jinjuku

jinjuku

Moderator
So I don't see this coming down on racial lines, Jijuku, but rather on economic lines. If you're rich and that tends to even exclude the middle class, you've got a better chance.
While the explicit examples are of whites the #'s about what race is targeted still stand. It's self fulfilling prophecy.

Here's another for consideration:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/instituteforjustice/2014/03/12/cops-use-traffic-stops-to-seize-millions-from-drivers-never-charged-with-a-crime/#34779e8846ae

"Unsurprisingly, seizing cash from traffic stops can earn millions for law enforcement. Two of the biggest moneymakers in the country were Sheriffs Bob Vogel and Bill Smith. Vogel seized $6.5 million in cash from cars going southbound on I-95 in Volusia County, Florida. But usually the cars that smuggled drugs went northbound. Plus, part of the “drug courier” profile for Sheriff Vogel “was that cars obeying the speed limit were suspect—their desire to avoid being stopped made them stand out.” The Orlando Sentinel later found that in three out of every four cases, no charges were filed. Ninety percent of the seizures involved African Americans or Latinos."

So you are suspect if you are speeding, your suspect if you keep to the speed limit. Then law enforcement will go on about how the crime numbers are higher for Blacks and Hispanic. Guess what, when you target a certain race the stats are going to go up and give you confirmation bias. Something we know quite well from the audio community.
 
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