Circuit City How the Once Mighty Have Fallen... and Back Again

Do you think Circuit City will succeed this time?

  • Yes. I'm pulling for them.

    Votes: 11 45.8%
  • No way, they had their day.

    Votes: 7 29.2%
  • Who cares, I buy Internet Direct

    Votes: 6 25.0%

  • Total voters
    24
3db

3db

Audioholic Slumlord
CC never crossed the border into Canada as far as I know. I hate what Best Buy did to Futureshop, taking a fairly good franchise with decent customer service and bastardizing it with piss poor knowledge qnd training for their staff, and as a result providing some of the absolute worst customer service I've ever seen. I called out the manager (of a store closet to where I live ) in front of his staff and let him half it for 15 minutes straight. I told him at the end that I hoped he gets fired with the upcoming restructuring because knowledgeable staff and customer service was sooo bad.

Oops, I digressed,,,, I hope CC does succeed and bring some stores with it. Lots of cheap help availabe here in Canada becuase the looney sucks so bad.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
CC never crossed the border into Canada as far as I know. I hate what Best Buy did to Futureshop, taking a fairly good franchise with decent customer service and bastardizing it with piss poor knowledge qnd training for their staff, and as a result providing some of the absolute worst customer service I've ever seen. I called out the manager (of a store closet to where I live ) in front of his staff and let him half it for 15 minutes straight. I told him at the end that I hoped he gets fired with the upcoming restructuring because knowledgeable staff and customer service was sooo bad.

Oops, I digressed,,,, I hope CC does succeed and bring some stores with it. Lots of cheap help availabe here in Canada becuase the looney sucks so bad.
As much as I understand the urge to tear someone a new one, I don't think anything is gained by doing it publicly.

I went to a Magnolia store last Summer and I have posted before that the guy didn't know if the sub was on or off (told me it was off, but it wasn't), didn't know that Def Tech 8060 have active woofers and said the Audyssey was defeated when it wasn't and that was just one visit. If he had been my employee, I would have taken him aside and explained why that's not a good way to operate or to keep a job. The few times I guessed at answers on the sales floor, some of them bit me in the butt and I really don't enjoy that, so I became a huge fan of saying "I don't know, but I'll find out". Now, I hear "I dunno" and they leave it at that. Pathetic- sales has turned into being a clerk.

I have offered bits of advice to people in Customer Service, sales, done a bit of technical training and corrected rudeness at several places and I think more people should be willing to do this, but by being tactful. A little sarcasm can be funny, but only to the people who aren't being taught. :D
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
... The stores will include a mix of in-store products and kiosks on which visitors to the new stores can order from a library of over a million products.
...
Oh, they want to compete with Amazon?
 
3db

3db

Audioholic Slumlord
As much as I understand the urge to tear someone a new one, I don't think anything is gained by doing it publicly.
Generally, I don't do this sort of thing in public but this guy was so pompous and rude that I snapped.
 
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
Generally, I don't do this sort of thing in public but this guy was so pompous and rude that I snapped.
You did what we all, at one time or another, wish we had done.

My opinion, is that Circuit City, like Vampires and Zombies, should stay dead and buried.
 
F

fmw

Audioholic Ninja
I just don't see an end to people seeing a store and being curious or convenient. If retail ends, the country is totally screwed because many millions are employed by retailers and all of the real estate would go to seed, or manufacturing....oh, right....maybe shelters for those who lost everything.

I think you mean you hope we don't see an end to retail because it is happening. When the country stopped using buggy whips and slide rules and jillions of other things, the country wasn't totally screwed. We've lost millions of jobs to China in recent years and we're still here.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
I think you mean you hope we don't see an end to retail because it is happening. When the country stopped using buggy whips and slide rules and jillions of other things, the country wasn't totally screwed. We've lost millions of jobs to China in recent years and we're still here.
There's a huge difference between the end of buggy whips and the end of retail. You can't buy face to face interaction, real time assembly/repair/exchange and instant purchases online. Amazon comes close, but when someone needs something quickly, they can't wait. China won't claim retail jobs and they're having a hard time with their economy at the moment, anyway. Their manufacturing practices aren't all unicorns and rainbows, either. If the customer doesn't park someone at the plant to make sure they're getting what they ordered, it's not uncommon for a manufacturer to farm out the work to someone else who then farms it out to someone else and each transaction comes with less perfect exchange of information. When the product reaches the customer, it's kind of like the 'telephone game'. Procedures are skipped, inspection may pass defects and it causes a lot of problems. The power tool industry had a huge amount of problems with this until they learned about using full time supervision.

I don't think retail will disappear, but it will be a long, strange road for a while. We need to keep manufacturing in the US and we need to bring more here, but the strong dollar isn't helping us, at all.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
You did what we all, at one time or another, wish we had done.

My opinion, is that Circuit City, like Vampires and Zombies, should stay dead and buried.
Why the hate for vampires and zombies, man?
 
djreef

djreef

Audioholic Chief
Ya, but 3db did you have to out a guy who was trying to stay in the closet?

DJ
 
H

herbu

Audioholic Samurai
I think about what could be the advantage of B&M home theater stores.
1) Knowledgeable sales staff. I think the majority of the market doesn't really understand HT components.
2) Ability to actually hear/see quality components before you buy. How many people would buy Polk or Sony bookshelf speakers if they could hear AAs?

The problem is how to balance price vs quality. Providing either of the attributes above would cost the business money. But I'm reminded of the many times my old execs said, "I want this quality and this price". When asked which was more important, their answer was always, "Both".

For CC to be successful, they'll need strong, passionate leadership with a focus on the customer.
 
3db

3db

Audioholic Slumlord
There's a huge difference between the end of buggy whips and the end of retail. You can't buy face to face interaction, real time assembly/repair/exchange and instant purchases online. Amazon comes close, but when someone needs something quickly, they can't wait. China won't claim retail jobs and they're having a hard time with their economy at the moment, anyway. Their manufacturing practices aren't all unicorns and rainbows, either. If the customer doesn't park someone at the plant to make sure they're getting what they ordered, it's not uncommon for a manufacturer to farm out the work to someone else who then farms it out to someone else and each transaction comes with less perfect exchange of information. When the product reaches the customer, it's kind of like the 'telephone game'. Procedures are skipped, inspection may pass defects and it causes a lot of problems. The power tool industry had a huge amount of problems with this until they learned about using full time supervision.

I don't think retail will disappear, but it will be a long, strange road for a while. We need to keep manufacturing in the US and we need to bring more here, but the strong dollar isn't helping us, at all.
I agree.. and now since our dollar is so low, you guys in the US should setup shop here in Canada which will benefit both countries. :)

I spoke out against offshoring 25 years ago when it really starting taking off. The only people who benefit from offshoring here in NA are the corporate elite management scum.
 
KenM10759

KenM10759

Audioholic Samurai
I agree.. and now since our dollar is so low, you guys in the US should setup shop here in Canada which will benefit both countries. :)

I spoke out against offshoring 25 years ago when it really starting taking off. The only people who benefit from offshoring here in NA are the corporate elite management scum.
The management does benefit, though not the primary beneficiary of it. It's the shareholders who demand the maximum, fastest return on investment regardless of the destruction left lying behind.
 
3db

3db

Audioholic Slumlord
The management does benefit, though not the primary beneficiary of it. It's the shareholders who demand the maximum, fastest return on investment regardless of the destruction left lying behind.
Management usually get performance bonuses based on reducing production/support costs by outsourcing. A few greedy shareholders (few compared to the rest of the population) has destroyed the economy of both our countries.
 
djreef

djreef

Audioholic Chief
Not getting the joke.
"I called out the manager (of a store closet to where I live ) in front of his staff and let him half it for 15 minutes straight."

You know, he was just born that way.

DJ
 
3db

3db

Audioholic Slumlord
"I called out the manager (of a store closet to where I live ) in front of his staff and let him half it for 15 minutes straight."

You know, he was just born that way.

DJ
Oh boy.... coffee please!! LOL
 
F

fmw

Audioholic Ninja
Think it through. We have full employment (albeit fairly low waged full employment) yet major retailers are closing stores like crazy. If you don't think the internet is affecting brick and mortar retailers negatively, then you simply aren't paying attention. Opening new brick and mortar chains is risky beyond description.
 
Johnny2Bad

Johnny2Bad

Audioholic Chief
RE: Circuit City, Best Buy, Future Shop, and Canadian currency values:

The value of a currency is a moving target. In the last decade or so the $C has been as high as $US 1.10 and as low as it is now (around $US 0.70). Not surprisingly, that is the traditional trading range of $C over the last 100 years (the value of $C vs $US was always above parity prior to the first Canada-US Free Trade pact ... the Auto Pact of the 1960's).

No business can plan against such volatility and assume there is a business plan there alone; you need to look at a market as a whole, not just one aspect of it, and the Canadian audio reseller market is in many ways more resilient than you might assume. There are a large number of audio manufacturers whose distribution channel for all of North America comes from Canada, not the US.

Plus the Canadian market is unique and it's a huge mistake to think it is a clone of the US market; Circuit City would need to take the expansion on as being just as difficult as the US startup. There are a number of examples where failure is the result, but for the most recent examples you could ask Tim Hortons (Canada>US) and Target (US>Canada) and see what they say about it, when their business plans treated the markets as fundamentally the same. They clearly are not.

Furthermore, the $C only seems devalued; if your financial research level stops at $C to $US. Over that same time period, the Canadian dollar has appreciated against virtually every currency on Earth except for $USD.

It's one thing when your products are of NAFTA origin but quite another when they are made in the People's Republic of China (PRC), Democratic Republic of China (Taiwan), Japan, Malaysia, Vietnam, the EU, the UK, etc. and your currency has, over time appreciated against those currencies. In financial planning terms, five years is considered Extreme Short Term. Long Term starts at 20 years.

I worked for a company that earned in $US and spent in $C. When it came to currency and it's affect on pricing and profit, no two years were alike, (unless you count that they were all volatile ... $C > $USD currency value swings of +/- 30% and more were common over six months) let alone five.

Plus the value of a currency is irrelevant to prices ... earnings (wages) are significantly different between Canada and the US with most middle-class wages (and in particular public sector wages) in pure dollar terms much higher in Canada. Ask a US teacher about entry-level wages of $50k, or a policeman about first year constables earning $65~70k; they will call you a liar, but that's reality in Canada. 25% of nurses in my province earn more than $100k. That goes a long way to paying a bit more for a pair of speakers. (While you are at it, ask them about their 3 weeks paid vacation, which is the law in my province after 12 months employment).

The President of General Motors famously said it costs him $700 a car to pay for US health care, that money goes right to the paycheck of his Canadian workers. Plus wages and prices are a constantly moving target. It would be a testament to Circuit City's likelihood of survival if they looked at Canada and ran, not walked, away, until they were very well established at home.
 
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H

herbu

Audioholic Samurai
The management does benefit, though not the primary beneficiary of it. It's the shareholders who demand the maximum, fastest return on investment regardless of the destruction left lying behind.
Here's where I get lost. The primary purpose of a business, any business, is to make money. Yet when they do it, they are vilified by some. Why?

Rather than attack the businesses that do what they are supposed to do, we should ask why it is cheaper for them to do it that way. Why are parts from overseas cheaper than parts made here? Why are whole products imported from overseas cheaper?

Businesses must operate within the law and govt regulations. If those laws and regulations encourage offshore deals, how is that the business's fault?

Now you can tell me about obscene exec pay, and cite examples of dirty businesses. The exec pay issue is BS. A business pays what it thinks he is worth. If he doesn't produce, they get rid of him. If he grows profit by $1B, I say he's worth $100M. And among the totality of businesses, a handful of dirty examples carries little weight.
 
3db

3db

Audioholic Slumlord
Here's where I get lost. The primary purpose of a business, any business, is to make money. Yet when they do it, they are vilified by some. Why?
Its clearly wrong when greed as a whole drives the economy into the shitter and only but a few benefit from offshoring.

Rather than attack the businesses that do what they are supposed to do, we should ask why it is cheaper for them to do it that way. Why are parts from overseas cheaper than parts made here? Why are whole products imported from overseas cheaper?
Due mostly in part of the exploitation of workers and inhumane working conditions. I find it quite ironic that NA goverments fights the war for freedom and against oppression, people rallying behind the cause, yet business sleeps with those doing the oppression.

Businesses must operate within the law and govt regulations. If those laws and regulations encourage offshore deals, how is that the business's fault?
Really? Wash ones hands because morality is harder than making a buck?

Now you can tell me about obscene exec pay, and cite examples of dirty businesses. The exec pay issue is BS. A business pays what it thinks he is worth. If he doesn't produce, they get rid of him. If he grows profit by $1B, I say he's worth $100M. And among the totality of businesses, a handful of dirty examples carries little weight.
Bullshit.. There were many exec tossers hired on during Nortlel's demise to rescue the company and they only succeeded in driving it into bankruptcy even faster. They all commanded extravagant salaries, and were paid huge bonuses for leaving (translated paid bonuses for further f'ing up the company) and yet, the people who actually worked there for their entire life saw their pension disappear. I'm sorry but no exec is worth that kind of money.
 

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