Suggestions on sub for new Home Theater?

[Cory Raymer]

Hello all, I am new here and am just completing my first dedicated home theater room. I did all the framing, drywall and electric myself and saved a ton of cash, that I could then put into equipment. My list that I have already received is as follows:

Receiver: Denon AVR-X3200W
Projector: Epson 5030
Front Towers: Klipsch RP-280F
Center: Klipsch RP-450C
Surround: Klipsch CDT-3650-C II (In ceiling speakers)
Rear: EMP TEK R55Wi Bi-polar

The one thing I am lacking is a good sub and trying to keep it under $600.

I have been looking at the SVS PB-2000, even though it is a bit above my price range. I would appreciate any feedback on what may be comparable and keep me below $600?

I am hoping this package will deliver a great movie experience for us in the new room I put together. It is 14 x 24 room that is 100% light controlled, but will also be using it to enjoy my music.

 

[shadyJ]

I would be looking at the Hsu VTF2 mk4, EMP Tek I-12, or Rythmik LV12r in that budget. But really, your $600 subwoofer will be the weak link in that system, I would hike your budget up to $1k and look at the 15"s from Hsu, Reaction Audio, or Rythmik Audio. All that work for a system with a single measly 12" sub would be pretty miserable. If you are going for 12"s, get two of them at least. You should also look into DIY subwoofers since you are handy with tools. I would be looking at plans for a ported box for the Dayton Ultimax 18 driver + iNuke amp.

 

[TheWarrior]

You need a big magnet, an amp, and a sturdy box, compromise any of those and you're spending hundreds on something that may adversely affect the overall sound of the system.

Listen to ShadyJ!

 

[Cory Raymer]

I would be looking at the Hsu VTF2 mk4, EMP Tek I-12, or Rythmik LV12r in that budget. But really, your $600 subwoofer will be the weak link in that system, I would hike your budget up to $1k and look at the 15"s from Hsu, Reaction Audio, or Rythmik Audio. All that work for a system with a single measly 12" sub would be pretty miserable. If you are going for 12"s, get two of them at least. You should also look into DIY subwoofers since you are handy with tools. I would be looking at plans for a ported box for the Dayton Ultimax 18 driver + iNuke amp.

Thanks Shady, I will look into those and think I can manage to up my budget to $1K if I just ask forgiveness, rather than permission from the wife. haha

My son built his own box for subs for his car, along with the amp. He built it out of MDF and got the plans from a friend that is pretty big into car audio. My son also has a spare 15" sub, I forget the name at the moment, but it is supposedly a high end sub that cost about $275 for the speaker alone, however, it is a car subwoofer, does that matter? Or should I just stick with buying a prebuilt?

I do like building my own stuff though, so maybe with a bit of help/advice my son and I could build a nice ported sub? If we can get the box built to spec and get the amp mounted etc, I can then make that box look like a fine piece of furniture with some black lacquer.

 

[Cory Raymer]

I would be looking at the Hsu VTF2 mk4, EMP Tek I-12, or Rythmik LV12r in that budget. But really, your $600 subwoofer will be the weak link in that system, I would hike your budget up to $1k and look at the 15"s from Hsu, Reaction Audio, or Rythmik Audio. All that work for a system with a single measly 12" sub would be pretty miserable. If you are going for 12"s, get two of them at least. You should also look into DIY subwoofers since you are handy with tools. I would be looking at plans for a ported box for the Dayton Ultimax 18 driver + iNuke amp.

Shady,

My room is 14 x 24, is that 18" overkill, would I be ok going with the Ultra 15? You have really peaked my interest into building my own box. Parts Express actually sells matching box kits that are specced for these drivers, would that be a good way to go?

 

[fuzz092888]

Thanks Shady, I will look into those and think I can manage to up my budget to $1K if I just ask forgiveness, rather than permission from the wife. haha

My son built his own box for subs for his car, along with the amp. He built it out of MDF and got the plans from a friend that is pretty big into car audio. My son also has a spare 15" sub, I forget the name at the moment, but it is supposedly a high end sub that cost about $275 for the speaker alone, however, it is a car subwoofer, does that matter? Or should I just stick with buying a prebuilt?

I do like building my own stuff though, so maybe with a bit of help/advice my son and I could build a nice ported sub? If we can get the box built to spec and get the amp mounted etc, I can then make that box look like a fine piece of furniture with some black lacquer.

There are many good reasons to buy pre-built, warranty, after sales support, ease of use and setup. However, there are some great reasons to build as well. You can get a bit more bang for your buck by building. It really boils down to what's most important to you, how much time and effort you want to put into it, and what your end goals are.

IMO, if this is for a home theatre setup I'd build, but I'm biased because that's the route I went and I think for $1000 you can build a sub that will at least equal the performance of the commercial options at that price range. However, I'll also be the first to say that this route isn't for everyone.

Car audio drivers can be very good, but we need a little more information to decisively say where this would fit in. Pesonally I like external amplifiers and would go with something like the Crest Pro Lite. It can power up to two subs and if you go with the 3.0, 5.0, or 7.0, will drive just about anything you can build to substantial levels.

 

[fuzz092888]

Shady,

My room is 14 x 24, is that 18" overkill, would I be ok going with the Ultra 15? You have really peaked my interest into building my own box. Parts Express actually sells matching box kits that are specced for these drivers, would that be a good way to go?

Rule of thumb, you can never have too much sub, only not enough. The reason for this is that once calibrated and appropriately leveled, the sub or subs will not deliver more than the source material and volume knob call for. If you have more than enough, this might mean that you only use 5, 10, 40% of what your sub is capable of, which is what you want. Having not enough sub and constantly driving it too hard or not having it dig deep enough enough will only leave you unsatisfied and may even damage the sub over time if it is the former.

 

[Cory Raymer]

There are many good reasons to buy pre-built, warranty, after sales support, ease of use and setup. However, there are some great reasons to build as well. You can get a bit more bang for your buck by building. It really boils down to what's most important to you, how much time and effort you want to put into it, and what your end goals are.

IMO, if this is for a home theatre setup I'd build, but I'm biased because that's the route I went and I think for $1000 you can build a sub that will at least equal the performance of the commercial options at that price range. However, I'll also be the first to say that this route isn't for everyone.

Car audio drivers can be very good, but we need a little more information to decisively say where this would fit in. Pesonally I like external amplifiers and would go with something like the Crest Pro Lite. It can power up to two subs and if you go with the 3.0, 5.0, or 7.0, will drive just about anything you can build to substantial levels.

Thanks for your feedback. The 15" sub that my son has available, if I want it is a SoundQubed, 600W RMS 1200W Peak.

I would provide link, but the site wont let me here, until I have 10 posts, but the model number is SoubndQubed HDS215

 

[fuzz092888]

Thanks for your feedback. The 15" sub that my son has available, if I want it is a SoundQubed, 600W RMS 1200W Peak.

I would provide link, but the site wont let me here, until I have 10 posts, but the model number is SoubndQubed HDS215

From a cursory glance at the driver on the website, I'm seeing a couple things. First, this isn't a $275 driver, it's a $115 driver. This definitely doesn't mean it's not good, but it means that it can be tougher to create a good driver in that price range. It takes really careful design, attention to detail, and strict quality control. I'd be skeptical of it on that alone, until I had seen other builds with measurements.

The other big issue I'm seeing is that it has an FS of 36.34Hz and a Qts of .8. The former isn't great and the latter is worse. Ideally you'd like to have an FS in the 20's and a total system Q around .5-.7. With a Qts of .8, your total system Q will likely be above that. If it were me, I'd pass on that particular driver for a HT application. Just my 2 cents though. It could still make an adequate sub, but I think that it vs an SVS, Hsu, or PSA sub, the commercial options probably win.

 

[Cory Raymer]

From a cursory glance at the driver on the website, I'm seeing a couple things. First, this isn't a $275 driver, it's a $115 driver. This definitely doesn't mean it's not good, but it means that it can be tougher to create a good driver in that price range. It takes really careful design, attention to detail, and strict quality control. I'd be skeptical of it on that alone, until I had seen other builds with measurements.

The other big issue I'm seeing is that it has an FS of 36.34Hz and a Qts of .8. The former isn't great and the latter is worse. Ideally you'd like to have an FS in the 20's and a total system Q around .5-.7. With a Qts of .8, your total system Q will likely be above that. If it were me, I'd pass on that particular driver for a HT application. Just my 2 cents though. It could still make an adequate sub, but I think that it vs an SVS, Hsu, or PSA sub, the commercial options probably win.

I did a bit of Google searching on the terms you are speaking about, I admittedly do not know much about audio. I am seeing a lot of the same things as the frequency being down in the 20's as preferred.

So, with that said, I guess I have two options, buy a commercial option or build the following:
- Behringer INuke Amplifier for $200

- Dayton Audio Reference 15" Driver for $172

- Dayton Audio 15" Sub cabinet for $169

That build would cost about $600, but not sure how it would compare performance wise to a commercial SVS or Hsu or even Outlaw.

 

[fuzz092888]

It will compare favorably with the SVS SB-2000. It's a larger driver, which equates to more surface area, in turn means less power needed to drive it to higher SPL's. So in theory, less distortion at lower SPL's. This isn't a knock against the SVS, but a bigger driver will do that for you.

As for Hsu, a fair compairson might be made between this and the VTF-3 MK5 HP. I'd guess that depending on which alignment you built, ported vs sealed, it should be pretty close between these two subs. I'd skip the Outlaw's since they're just older models of the Hsu's.

One more thing I'd note is that I'm not a big fan of the Behringer amps. They just don't deliver the rated power, don't have much headroom, and I question their long term reliability if consistently driven to the ragged edge.

I did a bit of Google searching on the terms you are speaking about, I admittedly do not know much about audio. I am seeing a lot of the same things as the frequency being down in the 20's as preferred.

So, with that said, I guess I have two options, buy a commercial option or build the following:
- Behringer INuke Amplifier for $200

- Dayton Audio Reference 15" Driver for $172

- Dayton Audio 15" Sub cabinet for $169

That build would cost about $600, but not sure how it would compare performance wise to a commercial SVS or Hsu or even Outlaw.

 

[shadyJ]

The SoundQubed driver isn't great. High Le, high Fs, moderate xmax. Probably not very linear. It is more suited to a car audio sub than home audio. One kit I would be looking at is the Stonehenge from DIYSoundGroup. Maybe a Dayton Ultimax 18 will work in that? In your room, you will want a ported sub! I wouldn't even look at sealed subs unless you can afford more than one. Better to get a ported commercial 15 like a VTF3 mk5 than a DIY sealed 15. Sealed 18"s are a different matter.

 

[Cory Raymer]

The SoundQubed driver isn't great. High Le, high Fs, moderate xmax. Probably not very linear. It is more suited to a car audio sub than home audio. One kit I would be looking at is the Stonehenge from DIYSoundGroup. Maybe a Dayton Ultimax 18 will work in that? In your room, you will want a ported sub! I wouldn't even look at sealed subs unless you can afford more than one. Better to get a ported commercial 15 like a VTF3 mk5 than a DIY sealed 15. Sealed 18"s are a different matter.

Are you familiar with Rythmik Subs? I spoke with them today and they are in Austin, actually about a quarter mile from where I work. They recommended their FVX15:


Specifications
Driver DS1502 15" high excursion with custom sensing coil
Driver materials Black anodized aluminum with rubber surround
Cast aluminum basket
Copper flux de-modulation shorting rings
Amplifier 400RMS Hypex Ucd module based patented servo controlled
Dimensions 18"(W) x 24" (H )x 24"(D) - (25-1/2" D with grille and control knobs)
Shipping Weight 120 lbs
Frequency Response 12 - 200 Hz (-2 dB @ 17 Hz, -6db@12hz) with LFE input

12 - 90 Hz (-2 dB @ 17 Hz, -6db@12hz) with LINE IN input
Multi-tune 18hz (2 ports) and 12hz (1 port)
Crossover slope Selectable 12 or 24 dB / octave (PEQ)
Crossover range (Low pass) 25 - 100 Hz
Rumble Filter (High pass ) 18 Hz 18 dB / octave for two port tuning
Phase adjustment 0 - 180 degrees continuously variable
Bass damping factor settings Q=0.5 (1P-music) and Q=1.1 (1P-HT and 2P)and low (Q=1.1)
Finishes Available in black matte vinyl and black oak vinyl
Warranty 5 years warranty on driver and 3 years on electronics
45 day satisfaction guarantee
It is listed at about $900, but that includes shipping. They said if I ordered online, then paid cash and picked it up, they would get it to me out the door for $800 even.

 

[shadyJ]

Are you familiar with Rythmik Subs? I spoke with them today and they are in Austin, actually about a quarter mile from where I work. They recommended their FVX15:


Specifications
Driver DS1502 15" high excursion with custom sensing coil
Driver materials Black anodized aluminum with rubber surround
Cast aluminum basket
Copper flux de-modulation shorting rings
Amplifier 400RMS Hypex Ucd module based patented servo controlled
Dimensions 18"(W) x 24" (H )x 24"(D) - (25-1/2" D with grille and control knobs)
Shipping Weight 120 lbs
Frequency Response 12 - 200 Hz (-2 dB @ 17 Hz, -6db@12hz) with LFE input

12 - 90 Hz (-2 dB @ 17 Hz, -6db@12hz) with LINE IN input
Multi-tune 18hz (2 ports) and 12hz (1 port)
Crossover slope Selectable 12 or 24 dB / octave (PEQ)
Crossover range (Low pass) 25 - 100 Hz
Rumble Filter (High pass ) 18 Hz 18 dB / octave for two port tuning
Phase adjustment 0 - 180 degrees continuously variable
Bass damping factor settings Q=0.5 (1P-music) and Q=1.1 (1P-HT and 2P)and low (Q=1.1)
Finishes Available in black matte vinyl and black oak vinyl
Warranty 5 years warranty on driver and 3 years on electronics
45 day satisfaction guarantee
It is listed at about $900, but that includes shipping. They said if I ordered online, then paid cash and picked it up, they would get it to me out the door for $800 even.

Rythmik is VERY good. 800 for a FVX15 is unbeatable. Rythmik also offers driver/amp kits if you don't mind a bit of woodwork. If assembling a sub doesn't bother you, I do think a Stonehenge with a proper 18" is the best value proposition, but I am not sure which driver that enclosure is optimized for. But yes, if you are going to buy a ready made sub, you can't go wrong with a FVX15, especially at that price.