3.1 Set up for $4000

[GranteedEV]

you only need two 6.5" to match a single 12" surface area so I am not sure where you got "three" from.

Unfortunately it's not as easy as "area of a circle". A speaker cone is not a circle, it's a cone. Its surface area sd is the part of the cone that contacts the air around it and creates sound. The larger you go in "cone inches" the deeper the cone also tends to get.

Here is a 6.5" driver:

http://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com...-4-6.5-woofer/


Effective piston area = 118 cm^2
xmax = 5.5mm

Here is its 12" sibling woofer

http://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com...5-6-12-woofer/

sd = 508 cm^2
Xmax = 11mm


So just looking at these two drivers, both from the same "line", we see that not only does this 12" woofer have over four times the effective piston area, it has double the linear excursion. In this case, never mind three; we would need EIGHT of the 6.5" woofers to match the volume displacement of the one 12" driver. That doesn't even factor in the low frequency efficiency of the lighter 6.5" driver, which means it'll need more EQ boost, even with eight of them.

Three 6.5" with same composite construction will any day and time respond much faster than their single 12" counterparts.

Really? Care to elaborate on the physics behind this that you know so much about?

Then I am guessing you have never auditioned the Energy ESW-M6
http://www.retrevo.com/s/Energy-ESW-...02ag925/t/1-2/
Driver size has nothing to do with speaker's low frequency extension - it is their F3 and Fs.

Um, you do realize F3 can be manipulated electrically, and fs is meaningless once inside a box, right? I am starting to see why you don't have any green chiklets though. Next you'll be telling me that if the F3 and Fs of a 1" tweeter suffice, it can be used an even "faster" subwoofer

In addition to price, there is another common theme between all those speakers you listed which is the use of a separate moderately sized midbass driver. I was referring more to speakers like these:

http://www.usedottawa.com/classified...eaker_15553920

the Salk has a 4.5" """ midbass""" driver. The Genelec a 5.25" ""midbass"" driver. the Audiokinesis and Gedlee has a 1" ""midbass"" driver.

Rriiiiggghtt.

My take on low frequency is that I want < 80Hz to come out of a subwoofer because I can then find proper placement for the subwoofer box to get good punchy omnidirectional bass whereas speakers must sit infront of you.

You do realize that when you have two source of bass (IE a pair of stereo speakers) you're going to have a smoother in-room response than if you have one source of bass (a single subwoofer)... right?

And you do realize that no one here said anything against also getting multiple separate subwoofers... right?

[GranteedEV]

Right now I am leaning on S6s>Synchrony>Phillies mainly because i have heard the S6s and love them.

Paradigm speakers are really good... at impressing on the showroom floor with the right demo material. But Salk / PSB / Philharmonic will be much more accurate, neutral sounding speakers that will never tire you out or give "Fake" detail.

Also I've read that the Synchronies need to be between 2-4' away from the wall to sound best

Just about any speaker will sound its best farther away from the wall than next to it.

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I am leaning on S6s>Synchrony>Phillies

Whichever sound the best to you is the right choice.

Everyone is different.

Based on all the speakers I've auditioned and owned, if you were to offer me any of those 3 speakers for FREE, I would pick the Philharmonic 3 in a heartbeat.

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Here is the Paradigm S8:

http://www.soundstagemagazine.com/me..._signature_s8/

On-axis FR looks flat.

And even @ 60 degrees horizontal off-axis, it appears to be only -6db down from 50Hz - 20kHz.

Wouldn't you say the Paradigm S8 is a very accurate speaker since it has a flat on-axis and pretty smooth and flat off-axis FR?

[GranteedEV]

Here is the Paradigm S8:

http://www.soundstagemagazine.com/me..._signature_s8/

On-axis FR looks flat.

And even @ 60 degrees horizontal off-axis, it appears to be only -6db down from 50Hz - 20kHz.

Wouldn't you say the Paradigm S8 is a very accurate speaker since it has a flat on-axis and pretty smooth and flat off-axis FR?

Hmm.. based on those measurements alone, it looks like it is a pretty accurate speaker unlike other paradigms. That's surprising.

It looks pretty good, although for the $9k price tag, it's not perfect; with a slight broad power response peak around 3 to 8khz that might make it edge closer towards "bright" or "forward" than "neutral" in a reverberant space. The bass looks a good bit better tuned than other paradigm speakers for sure, at least, although you can still see a bit of broad 2db bump near 200hz...the off axis response of the S8:



compared to the competing Revel Studios:



both have a slight bump near 200hz, probably caused by the higher DCR of the large air core inductors used. The revels are more neutral measuring, except for the very narrow off axis peak and dip at around 1.3khz to 2khz

[Ironman129]

Paradigm speakers are really good... at impressing on the showroom floor with the right demo material. But Salk / PSB / Philharmonic will be much more accurate, neutral sounding speakers that will never tire you out or give "Fake" detail.

I appreciate everyones patience and answering my questions. I know I just need to find a place here in San Diego to listen to them. Is it that the Salks and Phillies just reproduce a more accurate and nuetral sound, and that has been shown in measurements, or is that more personal experience?

There was a recent review of the Paradigm S6v.3 that was quite impressive where the reviewer had the original version of the S8s and said that the S6s "The S6 v.3s indeed had a similar familial sound, but the new speakers sounded better -- a lot better." Full review here.

Now I've been tricked before with biased reviews and no idea if this one is biased or not. The tests for the S8s seemd pretty accurate though.

[Ironman129]

BTW my plan is to use the Emotiva XPA-5 to power the front 3 which would give the availibility to bi-amp the fronts at least until I got surrounds. I know both the paradigms and Philharmonics can demand a lot of power, but I believe this would satisfy.

[GranteedEV]

BTW my plan is to use the Emotiva XPA-5 to power the front 3 which would give the availibility to bi-amp the fronts at least until I got surrounds. I know both the paradigms and Philharmonics can demand a lot of power, but I believe this would satisfy.

Bi-amping is nonsense, unless your speakers use an external, active crossover or your speakers have two 3 ohm woofers in parallel or something. You're better off getting more raw wattage IE an XPA-2 than to bi-amp.

I appreciate everyones patience and answering my questions. I know I just need to find a place here in San Diego to listen to them. Is it that the Salks and Phillies just reproduce a more accurate and nuetral sound, and that has been shown in measurements, or is that more personal experience?

I can't really comment on the paradigm signatures beyond what I discussed about the measurements above, but the Studios and Monitors are IMO not very accurate speakers, subjectively r objectively. I do know warpdrv owns Paradigm Signature and Salk speakers, so maybe he can enlighten you with his (subjectiv:e) view.

Salk SoundScape M7

[zieglj01]

[QUOTE=Ironman] I appreciate everyones patience and answering my questions. I know I just need to find a place here in San Diego to listen to them. Is it that the Salks and Phillies just reproduce a more accurate and nuetral sound, and that has been shown in measurements, or is that more personal experience?
QUOTE]

Listening/audition, is the way to base your decision - buy what sounds
best to you, and what you think and feel, will bring lots of enjoyment for
a long time. All I can say is that Dennis works, untill he gets everything
that he can get, out of a speaker. Good Luck!

[gpost3]

The weight of each composite on a 6.5" speaker will be lesser compared to 12" counterpart. It is very well known that a smaller speaker with identical composite will retract faster than a bigger one due to savings in weight. That's the physics behind it. If you put three 6.5" speakers, each one will still respond faster than a single 12" which will result in a better sound. But common sense is to be used here. Don't take it to extremism ofcourse 1" tweeter cannnot be used because they don't respond to lower frequency at all and the reason for that is because their XMax is severely limited to move any reasonable amount of air molecules. Hope that adds to the clarification.