Cadence CSX-12 II

[D Bone]

The other CSX-12 II thread got shut down, so I wanted to write something of value. I have had a CSX-12 II since Dec 2011 and couldn't be happier. Here is a good test: Review: Cadence CSX-12 Mark II Subwoofer | Sound and Vision Magazine and here are some specs for the lazy from that test:

Frequency response
34 to 154 Hz: ±3 dB

Bass output, subwoofer (CEA-2010 standard)

• Ultra-low bass (20-31.5 Hz) average: 103.2 dB

20 Hz:	91.3 dB
25 Hz:	105.4 dB
31.5 Hz:	113.1 dB

<tbody>
</tbody>

• Low bass (40-63 Hz) average: 121.5 dB

40 Hz:	117.2 dB
50 Hz:	121.9 dB
63 Hz:	125.6 dB

<tbody>
</tbody>

I wrote the following over on AVS:

"I've had my Cadence CSX-12 II since December 18 2011, and am as happy with it today as I was the day I hooked it up. It lives in the front left corner of my 24' x 16' living room with a vaulted ceiling, and that opens up to the kitchen. I will echo all of the positive reviews regarding quick delivery and phenomenal packaging. It is to me at least, a beast, but it fits fine in our living room without issue. I also really like the looks, as it looks completely different from the herd, and having the port located on the front accommodates easier placement options. My sub is used everyday, all day, as it's part of our living room home theater, and it hasn't missed a beat. The amp never gets warm, much less hot, and there are no buzzes or rattles even after several thousand hours of usage........So far, bullet proof comes to mind.

As for its sound, well it is loud and does what its supposed to do. The Tri-Pod scene in War of the Worlds energizes my whole room, without any weird noises.....Ever. We like our movies loud and with a fairly large room to fill, the CSX-12 has no problems whatsoever. The opening D-Day scene on Saving Private Ryan is also awesome, as the deep explosions energize the room like in WOTW, but also it pounds out all of the upper bass stuff like the gun blasts, and does so effortlessly. No, I don't have any graphs and you can describe me right square in the middle of Joe Six Pack and Mr. Audiophile. I know what I like, and I like the CSX-12. Sure, it could have deeper extension into the true 20hz range and an always on switch would be awesome, although the auto-on does work well but I still don't like any of them. I'm not sure what more I could add to the sound description, as I believe loud, clean and authoritative pretty much covers it all. This "review" was more of a long term update to show just how reliable the CSX-12 is, and we all know that isn't always the case with other subwoofers. If I had it to do all over again, the only thing I would change would be to reduce the time I researched this sub, because I wasted a couple of weeks that I could've been enjoying the Cadence instead."


This thread might help someone who is researching this sub a lot more than the one that was closed.

 

[fuzz092888]

As someone else has mentioned, I find the S&V numbers a little suspect. Especially since it has the Cadence putting up CEA numbers rivaling an 18" Danley in the low bass.

About what it sounds like, I couldn't say since I've never heard it. I just wouldn't put a lot of stock in those measurements, which is why I said before, I would expect the performance to be more in line with the 15" version, but possibly measuring a bit flatter and extending a bit deeper, albeit with probably a touch less output.

 

[Steve81]

As someone else has mentioned, I find the S&V numbers a little suspect. Especially since it has the Cadence putting up CEA numbers rivaling an 18" Danley in the low bass.

Keep in mind, S&V reports CEA 2010 burst output @ 1m, peak, so you'd have to subtract 9dB to normalize to Josh's 2m, RMS figures. As such, the 2m RMS numbers are:

20Hz: 82.3dB
25Hz: 96.4dB
32Hz: 104.1dB
40Hz: 108.2dB
50Hz: 112.9dB
63Hz: 116.6dB

 

[lsiberian]

As someone else has mentioned, I find the S&V numbers a little suspect. Especially since it has the Cadence putting up CEA numbers rivaling an 18" Danley in the low bass.

About what it sounds like, I couldn't say since I've never heard it. I just wouldn't put a lot of stock in those measurements, which is why I said before, I would expect the performance to be more in line with the 15" version, but possibly measuring a bit flatter and extending a bit deeper, albeit with probably a touch less output.

The DTS is a 10" tapped horn and the figures are 30 db lower at 20hz than that.

 

[D Bone]

As someone else has mentioned, I find the S&V numbers a little suspect. Especially since it has the Cadence putting up CEA numbers rivaling an 18" Danley in the low bass.

About what it sounds like, I couldn't say since I've never heard it. I just wouldn't put a lot of stock in those measurements, which is why I said before, I would expect the performance to be more in line with the 15" version, but possibly measuring a bit flatter and extending a bit deeper, albeit with probably a touch less output.

Are you suspect with all of S&V's numbers on all their tests, or just this one?

 

[fuzz092888]

The DTS is a 10" tapped horn and the figures are 30 db lower at 20hz than that.

Whoops, I meant Chase 18.1 and I didn't know that about the S&amp;V numbers. Also I said low bass not the ultra low bass which would exclude 20, 25, and 31.5hz.

 

[lsiberian]

Whoops, I meant Chase 18.1 and I didn't know that about the S&V numbers. Also I said low bass not the ultra low bass which would exclude 20, 25, and 31.5hz.

I don't think Chase is still around and it's quite possible to get impressive upper bass numbers with a budget driver, but those numbers don't tell you SQ either. Once you've heard the LMS or RE Audio XXX drivers it's a different level.

 

[its phillip]

Chase is still around, although their website has had issues for a couple days. Ricci has reviewed one of their subs, the VS18.1, which had solid results.

 

[Pyrrho]

The other CSX-12 II thread got shut down, so I wanted to write something of value. I have had a CSX-12 II since Dec 2011 and couldn't be happier. Here is a good test: Review: Cadence CSX-12 Mark II Subwoofer | Sound and Vision Magazine and here are some specs for the lazy from that test:

Frequency response
34 to 154 Hz: ±3 dB

Bass output, subwoofer (CEA-2010 standard)

• Ultra-low bass (20-31.5 Hz) average: 103.2 dB

20 Hz:	91.3 dB
25 Hz:	105.4 dB
31.5 Hz:	113.1 dB

<tbody>
</tbody>

• Low bass (40-63 Hz) average: 121.5 dB

40 Hz:	117.2 dB
50 Hz:	121.9 dB
63 Hz:	125.6 dB

<tbody>
</tbody>

I wrote the following over on AVS:

"I've had my Cadence CSX-12 II since December 18 2011, and am as happy with it today as I was the day I hooked it up. It lives in the front left corner of my 24' x 16' living room with a vaulted ceiling, and that opens up to the kitchen. I will echo all of the positive reviews regarding quick delivery and phenomenal packaging. It is to me at least, a beast, but it fits fine in our living room without issue. I also really like the looks, as it looks completely different from the herd, and having the port located on the front accommodates easier placement options. My sub is used everyday, all day, as it's part of our living room home theater, and it hasn't missed a beat. The amp never gets warm, much less hot, and there are no buzzes or rattles even after several thousand hours of usage........So far, bullet proof comes to mind.

As for its sound, well it is loud and does what its supposed to do. The Tri-Pod scene in War of the Worlds energizes my whole room, without any weird noises.....Ever. We like our movies loud and with a fairly large room to fill, the CSX-12 has no problems whatsoever. The opening D-Day scene on Saving Private Ryan is also awesome, as the deep explosions energize the room like in WOTW, but also it pounds out all of the upper bass stuff like the gun blasts, and does so effortlessly. No, I don't have any graphs and you can describe me right square in the middle of Joe Six Pack and Mr. Audiophile. I know what I like, and I like the CSX-12. Sure, it could have deeper extension into the true 20hz range and an always on switch would be awesome, although the auto-on does work well but I still don't like any of them. I'm not sure what more I could add to the sound description, as I believe loud, clean and authoritative pretty much covers it all. This "review" was more of a long term update to show just how reliable the CSX-12 is, and we all know that isn't always the case with other subwoofers. If I had it to do all over again, the only thing I would change would be to reduce the time I researched this sub, because I wasted a couple of weeks that I could've been enjoying the Cadence instead."


This thread might help someone who is researching this sub a lot more than the one that was closed.

Keep in mind, S&V reports CEA 2010 burst output @ 1m, peak, so you'd have to subtract 9dB to normalize to Josh's 2m, RMS figures. As such, the 2m RMS numbers are:

20Hz: 82.3dB
25Hz: 96.4dB
32Hz: 104.1dB
40Hz: 108.2dB
50Hz: 112.9dB
63Hz: 116.6dB

This is a nice illustration of how careful one must be when comparing numbers.

It kind of reminds me of someone trying to compare peak power of an amplifier with the continuous power of another amplifier. One must compare numbers of the same sort of thing, or it is totally misleading.


Either way, though, a frequency response of 34-154 Hz +/-3dB is not anything to brag about. This is not an impressive subwoofer. Now, for a cheap subwoofer, it may be good, but it is no more than a cheap subwoofer.

I don't understand why people want to pretend that something is better than it is. It may be good for its price, it may even be the best you can get for that price new, but it isn't as good as one might reasonably want, or could get for a bit more, like $500:

Measurements

Frequency response
18 Hz to 177 Hz, ±3 dB
Crossover (low-pass filter) function
-29 dB/octave
Bass output (CEA-2010A standard)
• Ultra-low bass (20-31.5 Hz) average: 113.0 dB
20 Hz 110.6 dB
25 Hz 113.0 dB
31.5 Hz 114.9 dB
• Low bass (40-63 Hz) average: 121.6 dB
40 Hz 119.8 dB
50 Hz 122.2 dB
63 Hz 122.5 dB

Review: SVS PB-1000 subwoofer | Sound and Vision Magazine

Since that is the same source as the opening post, one can compare these numbers directly with those. More money can get you a significantly better subwoofer. Anyone who understands these numbers will see this quite clearly.

I would strongly recommend that anyone wanting a subwoofer, who could afford the Cadence, to save up until they have at least $500 and buy something substantially better.

 

[D Bone]

The PB-1000 numbers do look impressive, but I have an 18" depth maximum that has to be adhered to, no exceptions, no other placement options. I was thinking about upgrading to an SVS SB12-NSD, but am not sure if it would truly be an upgrade over the CSX-12 in terms of bass output and extension?

 

[D Bone]

I spent the better part of 15 minutes on the phone with SVS, and he recommended that I go with a PC12-NSD for my 23' x 16'x vaulted ceiling room. I was most impressed with the conversation and I had zero sales pressure to up sale me. What do you guys think?

 

[Pyrrho]

I spent the better part of 15 minutes on the phone with SVS, and he recommended that I go with a PC12-NSD for my 23' x 16'x vaulted ceiling room. I was most impressed with the conversation and I had zero sales pressure to up sale me. What do you guys think?

I think any SVS subwoofer would be a big upgrade from the Cadence CSX-12 (though given the fact that they cost more, they ought to be better, or they would be a very bad value). And I personally very much like the cylinder subwoofers, as they take up very little floor space, are lighter than the comparable box version, and are a size that is easy to grab onto when one needs to move them. Plus they cost less than the boxes.

Basically, within reason, it is a good idea to buy the best subwoofer you can afford, so that you never need to upgrade. If it is capable of putting out more volume than you need, you simply use the level control to turn it down to what you want. I have a pair of old SVS CS-Ultra subwoofers, and I never plan on upgrading. They are great. The newer Ultras are supposed to be even better.

As for your depth issues, you can turn a subwoofer sideways if you want. So you could go with the PB-1000 if you turned it sideways, as its width is 15", which is less than your 18" maximum. But I recommend you go with a higher model if you can reasonably afford it, for the reason mentioned above. Having a better subwoofer than necessary is never a problem, but having one that isn't good enough is a problem.

I recommend that you read the professional reviews of whichever subwoofer you are considering, and think carefully about the measurement technics used (as some measure at 1 meter, others at 2 meters, some in room, etc.). But you can generally compare from the same publication without thinking too much about the way things are measured, as they usually keep to the same methods, though if they are years apart, they might change what they do.

 

[D Bone]

Thanks Pyrrho, much appreciated. I also have a width issue as well, so turning the sub long ways wont work either. ThePC12-NS fits nicely and SVS assured me it will dig way deeper than anything I've heard with the Cadence. Gonna sleep on it a few days though.

 

[j_garcia]

I've heard most of the SVS subs at one time or another and they've never disappointed. The CSX-12 MkII won't embarrass itself, but it won't keep up with something like the PC12NSD. Always wanted a cylinder SVS, but ended up with an Adire Tempest 15" Sonotube sub instead When footprint size is a problem, cylinders are a great answer.

 

[Pyrrho]

Thanks Pyrrho, much appreciated. I also have a width issue as well, so turning the sub long ways wont work either. ThePC12-NS fits nicely and SVS assured me it will dig way deeper than anything I've heard with the Cadence. Gonna sleep on it a few days though.

It is generally a good idea to sleep on major decisions. SVS is a solid choice, though there are also other brands that are good. But you cannot go wrong with SVS. They all dig deeper than your Cadence, though, again, they all cost significantly more, so this does not make the Cadence a bad value at its price point.

 

[Pyrrho]

I've heard most of the SVS subs at one time or another and they've never disappointed. The CSX-12 MkII won't embarrass itself, but it won't keep up with something like the PC12NSD. Always wanted a cylinder SVS, but ended up with an Adire Tempest 15" Sonotube sub instead When footprint size is a problem, cylinders are a great answer.

Even if you don't need a small footprint, I still prefer the cylinders. I like the lighter weight, and the shape is easy to grab onto for moving them around (I own SVS cylinder subwoofers and have experience moving them around). If you ever have to move it, or just are moving it around your room to try to get the best sound, this is a nice advantage. I also like getting them for even less money than the box versions, so they are an even more impressive deal for such great performance.

 

[D Bone]

My wife isn't crazy about the "fuzzy trashcan" living in our living room, and the other option SVS said would work great, although just a little different, was the SB12-NSD which my wife likes, a lot. I understand the sealed sub won't dig as deep as the cylinder, but SVS said they had no doubt it would dig deeper than the CSX-12, "and by a long shot". At this point I'm leaning towards the sealed SB12-NSD in gloss black. I have decided 100% on SVS and have researched, but ruled out for one reason or another the likes of Rythmik, Outlaw, ect...

So based on my only logical choice of the sealed SB12 in my 23x16 room, do you guys have any strong opinions on whether or not I'm actually upgrading over the CSX-12, or is it more of a lateral move?

EDIT: The Rythmik F12 also fits my requirements, but is on the upper end (actually a bit over, but doable) of my budget. What say you guys in regards to the SB12?

 

[j_garcia]

The SB12 is sealed, so I actually doubt it will have too much more authority down low than the CSX-12. Not that it won't extend deeper in room, but being a single driver sealed, it won't have the "oomph" associated with a vented sub down low. In that price range then, I'd actually consider the Rythmik LV12-R since it is about $50 less.

F12 or SB12, I don't think you can go wrong with either.

Even if you don't need a small footprint, I still prefer the cylinders. I like the lighter weight, and the shape is easy to grab onto for moving them around (I own SVS cylinder subwoofers and have experience moving them around). If you ever have to move it, or just are moving it around your room to try to get the best sound, this is a nice advantage. I also like getting them for even less money than the box versions, so they are an even more impressive deal for such great performance.

Light weight was a definite advantage with the cylinder. Carrying my current Empire up stairs was not fun.

 

[D Bone]

Thanks for the reply. My only real concern is that the back of the Rythmik LV-12R will have to be 3" from the wall, and I wonder how that would effect the sound. I called and spoke with someone at Rythmik, and while nice enough, seemed to want to up sell me immediately to their more expensive 15" sub. However he did recommend at least 6" of space between the rear of the sub and wall, but mainly because "the amp gets so hot".......Any thoughts?

 

[TheStalker]

I recommend the SB12-NSD. If you don't like it, you can always return it and then someone else will buy it as B stock. Should be an awesome, low distortion, deep extension, true subwoofer.