Denon avc-a1se(5800 US) or avc-a1sr(5803 US)

Y

Yamahaha

Enthusiast
Im planning on buying one of these and hooking it up with bluerayplayer with the 7.1 analog inputs(sound). And pic via hdmi.
Do I loose anything soundwise by doing this instead of taking the sound via hdmi?
How does these 2 amps do compared too todays amps?
Anything special I should have in mind when testing them?
What U think would be a fair price? Always hard with old amps.

Any input regarding these 2 amps is welcome.

Thanks.
 
bandphan

bandphan

Banned
Im not sure either has HDMI. As for every thing else both are nice units, whats your budget?
 
Y

Yamahaha

Enthusiast
Im not sure either has HDMI. As for every thing else both are nice units, whats your budget?
I know neither has hdmi, thats why Im planning too hook it up via the 7.1 analog inputs for sound and take the pic via hdmi direct too the projector.

I have another question.
How does the amplifierstage in these too differ from the one in avc-a1hd?
I think its called 5303ci in the US, not sure.

I got an offer for about 1000$Us for the avc-a1sr. So around 1000$US is my budget.
 
bandphan

bandphan

Banned
Both are power houses. I wouldnt think that the amp stages are different at all.
 
Y

Yamahaha

Enthusiast
Both are power houses. I wouldnt think that the amp stages are different at all.
So in theori the sound should differ that much if the bluerayplayer has some good D/Aconverters?
 
AVRat

AVRat

Audioholic Ninja
One thing to remember is that all processing is by-passed when the multi-channel inputs are used. Bass management would need to be done in the BD/DVD player and there would be no matrixing of a 5.1 soundtrack when using Dolby True HD/DTS-MA into the rear surrounds if you have them. Only a 7.1 discrete soundtrack would offer sound to the rears.

These are definitely excellent units, I own the 5800, as long as you’re running a 5.1 setup or could live with the standard DD/DTS soundtracks.

What speakers are you running and how large is your room? Where do you live?
 
Y

Yamahaha

Enthusiast
One thing to remember is that all processing is by-passed when the multi-channel inputs are used. Bass management would need to be done in the BD/DVD player and there would be no matrixing of a 5.1 soundtrack when using Dolby True HD/DTS-MA into the rear surrounds if you have them. Only a 7.1 discrete soundtrack would offer sound to the rears.
Are You sure?
Isnt that in the pure direct mode?
I thought it was like this.
In pure direct mode.
Signal from BRay -- preamp denon--ampsection denon--- speakers

In not pure direct mode
signal from BRay-- A/D converters--- processors/decoding-- D/Aconverters--preamp denon--ampsect denon--speakers

This is when using 7.1 analog input and letting the bluerayplayer do the decoding.

Speakers system is Audiopro Blue diamond.
 
bandphan

bandphan

Banned
Are You sure?
Isnt that in the pure direct mode?
I thought it was like this.
In pure direct mode.
Signal from BRay -- preamp denon--ampsection denon--- speakers

In not pure direct mode
signal from BRay-- A/D converters--- processors/decoding-- D/Aconverters--preamp denon--ampsect denon--speakers

This is when using 7.1 analog input and letting the bluerayplayer do the decoding.

Speakers system is Audiopro Blue diamond.
It is correct.
 
AVRat

AVRat

Audioholic Ninja
No, Pure direct/Direct, on most Denons, still use the bass management but turns off all other processing and only puts out a stereo(L/R) signal. PD/D is used when a digital signal is provided.

But you are correct that it works straight through unmolested.
Signal from BRay -- preamp denon--ampsection denon--- speakers
 
Y

Yamahaha

Enthusiast
AVRat/
So does Brayplayer or Denon do the bassmanagment if i take the audiosignal thru the 7.1 analog inputs?
You got me confused.

Another question,.
Is there any known/typical problems with these amps that i haveto look out for?
And is it only the 5803(avc-a1se) that have lipsync and not hte 5800(avc-a1sr)?

BTW thanks for the quick replays. Excellent forum this is.
 
bandphan

bandphan

Banned
The BRP or any component connect thru the x.1 analog inputs handles the BM.
 
Y

Yamahaha

Enthusiast
Have some more question regarding Denon 5808(avc.a1se) and 5803(avc-a1sr).

You say that it will be BRayplayer that will handle bassmanagement when connecting with the 7.1 analog inputs.
Does the Denon still handle delaytime and Db-settings for the different speakers, or will that too be handled by he Brayplayer?

Also curious if anyone know what type of D/Aconverters there is in these amps. Im pretty sure its Burr-Brown 24bit 192khz, but what number?
I know Yamaha Z9 has BurrBrown 1792.

And thank agai for the quick answers.
 
Y

Yamahaha

Enthusiast
I downloaded the manual now.
Theres stated that when using the 7.1 analog inputs you can do bass management and Dbsetup if You select DSPmode(not puredirect).
But then the A/Dconverters haveto take care of the signal before bassmanagement and so on can be chosen.

So in DSP mode it look like this if i understand correctly,

BRayplayer D/A -- Denon A/D -- DSP -- Denon D/A -- Preamp Denon-- Denon amp-- speakers.

Question now is, can A/D-converters and D/Aconverters in the Denon be able too handle the signal. Or will it just sound like crap because converting signal to many times?

BTW, the D/Aconverters in the Denon is called PCM-1738E.
Anyone know of what quality they are? Compared to for instance PCM-1792.
 
AVRat

AVRat

Audioholic Ninja
Assuming you’re talking about the 5803? The DSP feature is something I wasn’t aware of for the EXT-INs. Thanx. But where in the manual are you seeing the bass management info?

Denon wouldn’t add these features if it ended sounding like crap.
 
Y

Yamahaha

Enthusiast
I found it on page 17 and 23.
On page 17 it says,
"The analog signal is convertes into a digital signal and undergoes DSP proccesing.
Syastem settings setup(speaker configuration, chanel delay etc) are reflected in the same way as for other inputs."

Dont know if i understood right. But doesnt this mean I can set bass managment too? And db setings?

This is the Denon avc-a1sr(5803) modell.

Now my question is this.
How much impact will this have on the sound?
I mean it can be good to have that many A/D and D/A convertings?
And secondly, how good are the A/Dconverters in Denon?
I know the D/Aconverters are good , but the A/D?

And thanks again AVrat for all Your replies. very helpfull indeed.
 
Last edited:
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
BTW, the D/Aconverters in the Denon is called PCM-1738E.
Anyone know of what quality they are? Compared to for instance PCM-1792.
If you compare the specs, the 1792 is better but the 1738 is also a high quality DAC. In real world listening comparison, everything else being equal, I doubt anyone can hear the difference. I am sure many people will claim they can, but it will be hard to prove it either way.
 
AVRat

AVRat

Audioholic Ninja
I found it on page 17 and 23.
On page 17 it says,
"The analog signal is converted into a digital signal and undergoes DSP procesing.
System settings setup(speaker configuration, channel delay etc) are reflected in the same way as for other inputs."
This would seem to be true. I didn’t realize how much of an upgrade the 5803 was from the 5800.

http://www.ultimateavmag.com/dvdplayers/105/
From Ultimate A/V
There are new high-resolution 24/192 A/D converters for all analog inputs, which analog purists can bypass in Direct or Pure Direct (all video circuitry turned off) mode. However, there is no bass management when you bypass in this way. Bass management is available in other modes, passing the signal through the hi-rez A/D-to-D/A conversion process.
 
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