Zone 2 on an old Denon AVR-S900W?

[-Jim-]

Hi Gents. I'm mucking about in my Man Cave / Junk Room in the basement.

Months ago I was pushed out of my "office" in an upstairs bedroom which I'd had for years (since our eldest son moved out) by the Misses. She always hated my Desk and thought it was far too large for the room; and as I didn't need it for work anymore, it got banished to the Man Cave / Junk Room in the basement; along with me and my Main PC.

The system in the Man Cave / Junk Room was cobbled together on the cheap, from old gear into a 7.1 system even though it was far too small for the space (about 12'x14'). I did it just for grins and to see if there was really much difference between a 5.1 and a 7.1 setup in such a small space. (Nothing significant.) The Desk /PC move there had me just run an HDMI cable from the Video Card into the Denon AVR-S900W, as I thought it would be silly to introduce a computer speaker system into a already crowded setup. I tried to live with mucking about with the balance of the system when playing it in "All Stereo" mode to listen to FLAC Tunes while Web Surfing, reading emails, etc. But have the sound to the side and behind me just didn't cut it. Over time it drove me crazy.

So I reconfigured the system into a 5.1 and a Zone 2. The Zone 2 speakers are really just for my PC setup to give me a stereo soundstage for my FLAC tunes. I still have the HDMI Cable into the Denon AVR-S900W as sometimes, I'll change seats (into my old Lazyboy=> which also got banished here during the "Great Reno" during the winter of 2018 / 2019) and watch a video or something in stereo or 5.1 (now) on the 55 inch Samsung.

First of all I have zero experience with a Zone 2 setup, even though I have 4 receivers with such a capability. So I'm a newbie on this, and looking for some assistance. I've followed the manual (PDF) and Denon AVR-S900W Zone2 (online) but can't get it sorted. So here's the issue. I can't get the Zone 2 speakers to play without the Main (5.1) Zone active and "All Zone Stereo" selected from there.

Once playing tunes, I then reduce the volume of the Main Zone (I guess I could just use Mute) and can adjust Zone 2 up and down no problem. I'm happy the Zone 2 speakers, and it does work well for my purposes. But it seems silly to have to go through these hoops to make it work.

What am I doing wrong? Do you have any tips to simplify the process so just Zone 2 works?

As always, thanks for the assist.

 

[Trebdp83]

Unfortunately, digitally connected devices will only have their signals sent to Zone 2 when the "All Zone Stereo" mode is selected in the Main Zone and Zone 2 is set to the same source device. If you want to use Zone 2 without having the Main Zone ON, you must connect any devices you want to use in Zone 2 with analog cables. This would require changing the connected port used for a selected source device when wanting things to work in Zone 2 exclusively.

To avoid such a thing, connect the analog cables to different source device ports and relabel them. For example, if your PC is in HDMI port #5 "Media Player," you can relabel it PC HDMI and connect analog cables to the CD analog ports and just relabel the CD source as PC ANALOG. This assumes any device that will be used in Zone 2 exclusively can output analog and digital signals at the same time. Using the controller app should also make things easier when making Zone selections.

You should be able to relabel source devices in the controller app as well. Then, control each Zone as you wish. This is assuming the receiver is on your network along with any Smart devices.

You know, I totally forgot about using the media server features when the receiver and PC are connected to the same network. You should be able to play FLAC files over the network to Zone 2 without the Main Zone ON. This can be done using the PC, Smart device or the receiver's remote controller to make selections.

 

[lovinthehd]

As well as analog connections or via wifi, a digital cable of the optical or coax type might work for zone 2....

 

[Trebdp83]

This particular Denon model does not support digitally connected devices at all in Zone 2 when using it separately from the "All Zone Stereo" mode with the Main Zone.

 

[lovinthehd]

This particular Denon model does not support digitally connected devices at all in Zone 2 when using it separately from the "All Zone Stereo" mode with the Main Zone.
View attachment 65126

Yeah, mine's older but a higher end model, mine's only restricted by hdmi. Oh well.....

 

[Trebdp83]

Zones 2 is all over the place with different models. The upcoming Denon X6800H does support HDMI and coax/optical PCM 2.0 signals in Zone 2 when it is used separately from the Main Zone's "All Zone Stereo" mode. Zone 3 supports coax/optical PCM 2.0 but no HDMI at all when used separately from the Main Zone's "All Zone Stereo" mode. Analog, USB and network signals are supported separately in all zones.

 

[lovinthehd]

Zones 2 is all over the place with different models. The upcoming Denon X6800H does support HDMI and coax/optical PCM 2.0 signals in Zone 2 when it is used separately from the Main Zone's "All Zone Stereo" mode. Zone 3 supports coax/optical PCM 2.0 but no HDMI at all when used separately from the Main Zone's "All Zone Stereo" mode. Analog, USB and network signals are supported separately in all zones.

Yeesh.

 

[-Jim-]

This particular Denon model does not support digitally connected devices at all in Zone 2 when using it separately from the "All Zone Stereo" mode with the Main Zone.
View attachment 65126

Thanks for your responses @Trebdp83 . I was dumb enough to believe all the Sources were available as indicated in the manual (see screenshot below) and they would work fine. There was no weasel words about HDMI sources but I was thinking that something was preventing it. (I was actually thinking a "Handshaking" issue.)

I didn't think to check the troubleshooting table on page 210.

I tried doing the media server feature (when the receiver and PC are connected to the same network) once ages ago, but it may have been on my Atmos system (with a Denon AVRX-4400H), and not the AVR-S900W. I don't really remember but I abandoned it as it was not a user friendly as I liked.

But I don't think I have much choice here other than Bluetooth, which limits quality to some degree, than to try networking this application. I wanted this to be simple and still allow the flexibility of not having to switch the computer sound output from the HDMI to another device. (Always the KISS Principle!) I could use a line out from the sound section of the motherboard, and go to the CD RCA analogue audio inputs on the AVR-S900W.

I just checked, and I do have the AVR-S900W hardwired on the network. So I'll have a look at this option tomorrow. If I can just direct what tunes to play on the AVR-S900W from my PC, while leaving the HDMI in place for videos, an 5.1 stuff, that could work well.

Thanks for the advise. I wish Denon would have made this simpler, and been more up front about it in the manual, rather than burying it 200+ pages deep. .

 

[lovinthehd]

Thanks for your responses @Trebdp83 . I was dumb enough to believe all the Sources were available as indicated in the manual (see screenshot below) and they would work fine. There was no weasel words about HDMI sources but I was thinking that something was preventing it. (I was actually thinking a "Handshaking" issue.)

I didn't think to check the troubleshooting table on page 210.
View attachment 65132

I tried doing the media server feature (when the receiver and PC are connected to the same network) once ages ago, but it may have been on my Atmos system (with a Denon AVRX-4400H), and not the AVR-S900W. I don't really remember but I abandoned it as it was not a user friendly as I liked.

But I don't think I have much choice here other than Bluetooth, which limits quality to some degree, than to try networking this application. I wanted this to be simple and still allow the flexibility of not having to switch the computer sound output from the HDMI to another device. (Always the KISS Principle!) I could use a line out from the sound section of the motherboard, and go to the CD RCA analogue audio inputs on the AVR-S900W.

I just checked, and I do have the AVR-S900W hardwired on the network. So I'll have a look at this option tomorrow. If I can just direct what tunes to play on the AVR-S900W from my PC, while leaving the HDMI in place for videos, an 5.1 stuff, that could work well.

Thanks for the advise. I wish Denon would have made this simpler, and been more up front about it in the manual, rather than burying it 200+ pages deep. .

A footnote there on what sources are limited would have been nice....

 

[-Jim-]

I've been mucking about on this for hours and have made slow progress. The Denon instructions are pretty much less than useless, but I have made some headway regardless.

The key is to enable my Main PC (where all the Tunes - especially the FLAC Tunes - are) as a DLNA Server. Once I realized that, then I had to Share the Music Folders, and of course Windows enables Password Protection even though I never set it up that way => so it took me ages to realize that glitch, and then disable it. So I just got a tune to play over the Network using the built in Media Player on the Denon (looks like the same one in the AVR-X4400H) in Zone 2 exclusively (No Mains on!)

That should be a cause for celebration, but the built in media player is so slow and clumsy. As I have lots of tunes (TBs), even searching out a single Album & then a tune takes ages. I think it also only allows you to have one Tune playing, with no tunes cued up behind it. As much as I'm happy that I got a tune to play, I'm not happy with this player.

I know it's not the PC as it's very powerful Box with M.2 SSD, and has 64 Gigs of Ram (I built it last year). So unless someone has an "Aha" moment of a way to get this media player to cue up and play tunes quickly; I'm thinking of seeing if Windows Media Player or PowerDVD 20 will cue up and "Stream" the tunes to the Denon.

These two players are already on the PC so the learning curve would be short. I'm not keen on moving to another media player but , as they say: never say never.

 

[lovinthehd]

Using the inherent control feature in the avr is klunky for sure. I use Foobar2000 and bubbleupnp apps on pc/phone/tablet.

 

[Trebdp83]

Do you have a Smart device that can be used to download the Denon Remote app that is compatible with the S900W? Not sure it’ll perform any faster for you using the Media Server function.

 

[-Jim-]

Do you have a Smart device that can be used to download the Denon Remote app that is compatible with the S900W? Not sure it’ll perform any faster for you using the Media Server function.
View attachment 65162

Thanks for the suggestion. The existing "Denon AVR Remote App" on my iPhone, which controls the Denon AVR-X4400H couldn't "see" the AVR-S900W. (It's too "new" an App I guess )

I had to download the "Denon Remote App" (I know this is silly ) but it did see the AVR-S900W, and I can look at the Tunes faster and get something to play. It's a bit strange (at least so far) in that I need to have the Main Zone on to get into the Media Player. Then I can shut it off and play just Zone 2. It still won't let me open my Main FLAC Library (still too large?) and pick a tune but I can go to a smaller folder of Temp Tunes, or one with MP3s and play something there. There is a provision to make a Playlist but that's too "klunky" for me as I never play the same tunes twice in the same order. Of course if it's an Album I will.

I'll dig into it a bit deeper.

 

[Trebdp83]

Yeah, some Denon models will be compatible with different Denon apps. Make sure your FLAC files don't break any rules here:

 

[-Jim-]

Thanks for the tips, but my audio files are all good for the AVR-S900W.

I've been going down the rabbit hole of trying to use Windows Media Player to stream the tunes to the AVR-S900W over my home network. This was in an effort to "keep it simple stupid" (KISS Principle) and not engage any other software than what I already have on the Box. Having never done this before, it has been an engaging puzzle.

I was able to sort out how to get the Box to be a Media Server, setup which folders of Tunes I want to "stream", Index my Tunes (well not all of them as it's a slow process and it's still on going), and get them to play over the LAN (rather than via the HDMI Cable) => albeit only one per instruction.

So the failure is I am using "Cast" inside of Windows Media Player (?), which does let you select and list tunes the you want to play, but I haven't been able to figure out how to get it to play the list of tunes, rather than just one and stop => waiting for me to initialize the next tune. It may not be the right method but I can't find clarity anywhere so far.

Of course another big issue is I still need to start the AVR-S900W via the Main configuration, then initialize Zone 2; then back to the Main to enable All Zone Stereo; then adjust the Main volume down to zero and Zone 2 to suit. Then I can select Media Server via the "Online Music" function. Then play a single tune at a time as described above. So I'm just about to say I'm stumped trying Windows Media Player for steaming to the AVR-S900W. It may be the AVR-S900W just won't allow Zone 2 to be controlled independently. If that's the case, I might as well stay with pushing tunes to it via the HDMI connection already in place; and just live with the fussing about getting Zone 2 selected.

I have thought of another possible pathway. There are 4 "Quick Select" buttons on the remote, which (if memory serves me) can be programed to do some "macro" sequencing of the AVR-S900W controls. I'll go look that up and see if I'm just dreaming or not.

Barring success there, the next option would be to head down the Cyberlink PowerDVD 20 as the Media Streamer which I have on this Box as well. But it won't help the initial switching to Zone 2 issue, but may help with letting me play a list of selected tunes.

Zone 2 usage is not a simple problem for me.

 

[Trebdp83]

Wait, are you using Chromecast from Windows Media player when selecting "Cast?" The issue is that Chromecast does NOT support multi zone casting. So, that may be why you have to start with the Main Zone and use "All Zone Stereo." I didn't think that receiver supported Chromecast, though.

Shooting in the dark here, but try:

If that works, make sure the receiver is OFF. Then, open the Denon app and power ON just Zone 2. Select the Media Server and see if it will stream from your Windows library.

 

[-Jim-]

Wait, are you using Chromecast from Windows Media player when selecting "Cast?" The issue is that Chromecast does NOT support multi zone casting. So, that may be why you have to start with the Main Zone and use "All Zone Stereo." I didn't think that receiver supported Chromecast, though.

Shooting in the dark here, but try:
View attachment 65236
If that works, make sure the receiver is OFF. Then, open the Denon app and power ON just Zone 2. Select the Media Server and see if it will stream from your Windows library.

No, I'm not using Chromecast from Windows Media Player. I just "right click" on a Tune in the Media Player Library (below) and select the AVR-S900W:

Then it begins playing (if I already have the receiver setup up to play) and displays this:

I was pretty sure I had Windows Media Player Network Sharing Service already running as Automatic, but I checked it as suggested and it is set to run that way.

I'll try your suggestion "Then, open the Denon app and power ON just Zone 2. Select the Media Server and see if it will stream from your Windows library." before I move onto something new.

Thanks for continuing to poke at this with me.

 

[Trebdp83]

Been so long since I used Windows Media Player but should you even have to cast at all? Shouldn't it just sit there with Share ON and the media server app be able to browse and make selections from the library?

 

[-Jim-]

Been so long since I used Windows Media Player but should you even have to cast at all? Shouldn't it just sit there with Share ON and the media server app be able to browse and make selections from the library?

My preference would be to just select tunes I want to play in Windows Explorer as I've done in the past and not have to enable the App on my iPhone, or even Windows Media Player. When I select a tune I want to play in Windows Explorer, I just use the "right click" menu and add it to the list and move on. I'd love to have Zone 2 on (no Main) and play it in stereo by default. But so far, nothing I've tried comes close.

I did try the App on my iPhone as you suggested, and it will turn on Zone 2, only but won't let you play tunes on it via the LAN until I do the dance with the Mains, All Zone Stereo, etc. Then it only finishes playing the one tune on Zone 2 but won't start another. Then I have to re-enable the Mains and do the dance again. Not an elegant solution.

Maybe time for another approach.

 

[Trebdp83]

Maybe I missed it somewhere, but you also made the settings mentioned in the Denon manual for Windows Media Player?