3db

3db

Audioholic Slumlord
I think the SB2000 will have more deep bass capability, although the Rythmik subs more easily hit lower frequencies because the servo mechanism seems to tune them lower. However deep bass capability is all about moving air, and I would bet the SB2000 has the advantage here. The Rythmik might actually have more midbass output, due to its driver's light moving mass. As for articulation, I don't know, but the Peerless XXLS platform which the SVS 2000 subs use is an extremely linear driver with very low inductance. I bet at nominal levels with ordinary music, you would not be able to tell the difference between the two. At higher drive levels, the difference may become audible, as their distortion character emerges and sets them apart. It would be an interesting comparison. I think a ULS will be better behaved than either at nominal levels simply because the VC does not have to move far from the magnetic gap to achieve the same output. It will also have more linear output capability than both of them put together.
You seem to be contradicting yourself in comparing the two, especially in the first two sentences. Wanna try that again ;)
 
S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Staff member
You seem to be contradicting yourself in comparing the two, especially in the first two sentences. Wanna try that again ;)
I'm not, really. You can think of the servo system as an EQ in the way it brings up the deep bass. What is the Rythmik driver's natural Fs in a cabinet that small? I guarantee you it is not 18 Hz like the spec'd -3 dB point. Without the servo system I would guess it is in the 40's. I don't think it has much throw. I think the Peerless driver which the SVS uses has more throw, therefore more displacement. It is simply not getting an electronic boost in the deep frequencies which the Rythmik is, so I think it will more likely follow the driver's natural rolloff. However, if you blasted both at 20 Hz, I think the SB2000 will be able to achieve higher output levels.
 
KEW

KEW

Audioholic Overlord
... then I will order the SB2000. May be able to do a direct comparison on the L12 AND the SB2000 respectively. That way, I will decide which one I want to keep OR send BOTH back, no?

If I choose to send BOTH back, then I will no doubt have to eat the shipping back on the L12. At that time, I will then order the Hsu ULS-15 MK2. On the other hand, if I keep either of the L12/SB2000 I will then order my 2nd. So, it ALL depends on what goes on between the L12 and the SB2000.

Just would like to thank you ALL that have helped me come closer to beginning to make this decision.

Cheers,

Phil
Fixed it for ya, LOL!;):)

I have my share of analysis paralysis, too. I have to admire your dedication to the end game! Many just order whatever they last considered when their patience runs thin!

It will be interesting hearing your comparison of the SB2000 and the L22!
Here is some reading material you might enjoy while you wait:
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-subwoofers-bass-transducers/1471574-rythmik-e15-vs-svs-sb13-ultra-4.html#post24544440
 
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P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
I plan to transfer some balances around to avoid paying interest. Once I do that, then I will order the SB2000. May be able to do a direct comparison on the L12 AND the SB2000 respectively. That way, I will decide which one I want to keep OR send BOTH back, no?
If follow through with your plan I bet you will end up flipping a coin. You will find the L12 articulate and musical but you may like the look of the SB2000 better, there won't be significant difference between the two either way. I have both SVS and Rythmik so I can't say I am biased, but I can say I love both equally, though more impressed with the servo.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
You guys know that I would take an externally powered sub (Funk Audio, RBH, etc.) any day over any internally powered sub. ;)
 
speakerman39

speakerman39

Audioholic Overlord
Fixed it for ya, LOL!;):)

I have my share of analysis paralysis, too. I have to admire your dedication to the end game! Many just order whatever they last considered when their patience runs thin!

It will be interesting hearing your comparison of the SB2000 and the L22!
Here is some reading material you might enjoy while you wait:
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-subwoofers-bass-transducers/1471574-rythmik-e15-vs-svs-sb13-ultra-4.html#post24544440
Yeah, I am looking forward to comparing both the L12 and the SB2000. Whichever of the two I prefer, the other is going back. That is, of course, I decide to send BOTH back. This surely can happen as I have grown to be very picky about what I am looking for.

In the end, I may end up ordering a ULS-15 MK2. If that is the case, then it is here to stay. Will NOT send the ULS-15 back regardless. Later down the road, dual ULS-15 will be a definite. Just wished I could go ahead and get (2) ULS-15's and be done with it. However, money is tight right now.

Cheers,

Phil
 
speakerman39

speakerman39

Audioholic Overlord
If follow through with your plan I bet you will end up flipping a coin. You will find the L12 articulate and musical but you may like the look of the SB2000 better, there won't be significant difference between the two either way. I have both SVS and Rythmik so I can't say I am biased, but I can say I love both equally, though more impressed with the servo.
Peng, YOU are correct. I really don't think there will be much difference between the L12 and the SB2000. Do prefer the looks of the SB2000 more. Also, like the driver better on the SB2000. Like YOU, I am impressed with the servo technology. Just have to wait and see.

Cheers,

Phil
 
speakerman39

speakerman39

Audioholic Overlord
UPDATE:

Folks, I just went to the Hsu site and noticed that they had a B-stock ULS-15 MK2. As such, just could NOT resist and I ordered it. I think at this time that I will just send the L12 back once it arrives. Will request a refund minus shipping back to Rythmik. Furthermore, when things are in order I will order a 2nd ULS-15 MK2. Hence, may even wait until there is another B-stock unit to be had. Think I have made the right decision.

Cheers,

Phil
 
speakerman39

speakerman39

Audioholic Overlord
Nice! Now try not to get evicted!
Thanks Shady. Evicted for what? I preferred to go dual ULS-15 MK2 anyways. Just got lucky on the B-stock. Maybe I will again down the road very soon. Going to try to stop shipment on the L12. Working on that as we speak.

Cheers,

Phil
 
speakerman39

speakerman39

Audioholic Overlord
Oh I get it now Shady.......LOL!!! No, I won't get evicted because I will keep it on the low and only rock out when it is safe! BTW, UPS told me it is best to just refuse the package. I will let Rythmik know what my plans are. Just excited I am going to get the ULS-15 MK2!

Cheers,

Phil
 
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3db

3db

Audioholic Slumlord
I'm not, really. You can think of the servo system as an EQ in the way it brings up the deep bass. What is the Rythmik driver's natural Fs in a cabinet that small? I guarantee you it is not 18 Hz like the spec'd -3 dB point. Without the servo system I would guess it is in the 40's. I don't think it has much throw..
Your analysis is mitigating the effect of the system as a whole. Secondly, your not sure of the Rythmik's driver capabilities. I just see this as an analysis by postulating, not facts. I wonder, have you heard any of the subs you're analyzing other than HSU? :rolleyes:
 
speakerman39

speakerman39

Audioholic Overlord
Your analysis is mitigating the effect of the system as a whole. Secondly, your not sure of the Rythmik's driver capabilities. I just see this as an analysis by postulating, not facts. I wonder, have you heard any of the subs you're analyzing other than HSU? :rolleyes:
No, I have NOT heard ANY of the subs I was considering. So, yeah I am taking a gamble here. B-stock sales are FINAL. As such, there is NO sending the ULS-15 MK2 sub back period. Unfortunately, I will have to eat the shipping costs back on the L12.

I do believe that I have made the right choice. One I can surely live with. Hopefully once a couple things get ironed out, then I will order a second LS-15 MK2. My plan all along is having duals whichever of the subs I ended up with.

Came across the deal on the ULS-15 MK2 sub and felt it was an opportunity for a good deal. In fact, might even wait until there is another before ordering my second ULS-15. SVS is still very much on my radar. That is, the Ultra Bookshelfs have my utmost attention as we speak.

Cheers,

Phil
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
I definitely don't miss the days where I would buy, sell, buy again. :D

I am now at ASS - Audio Steady State. :D

Hopefully your HSU subs will get you there. :)
 
S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Staff member
Your analysis is mitigating the effect of the system as a whole. Secondly, your not sure of the Rythmik's driver capabilities. I just see this as an analysis by postulating, not facts. I wonder, have you heard any of the subs you're analyzing other than HSU? :rolleyes:
I have used the FV12 before, looks to be similar if not same driver as L12, so I have seen what that driver can do. While it has a good amount of throw, I would not qualify it as a high excursion driver. While I am not 100% sure that the SVS 2000 driver has greater xmax, I would be willing to bet a good chunk of money that it does. To hit 108 dB at 40 Hz means the 2000 driver has to have at least an inch of linear peak-to-peak excursion. That matches the Peerless XXLS spec of 12.5 mm xmax. While that isn't exactly huge excursion either, it isn't terrible for a 12". If you have a Rythmik sub that uses this driver, place a piece of tape on the dustcap, set up a mic with an RTA near the woofer, and run a deep frequency tone, and you can kind of get a feel for the xmax by eye-balling it, or better yet, take a picture from a camera in a static position with the tape on the dustcap at rest and a ruler in front of it, than take a pic from same exact position with the woofer at maximum linear throw and camera at long enough exposure to capture the whole throw, and compare the pics. Use the RTA like the one in REW to make sure the playback stays linear, and when it gets out of hand, you are past xmax. Also I will not be held responsible for any damages incurred if you try this!
 
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3db

3db

Audioholic Slumlord
UPDATE:

Folks, I just went to the Hsu site and noticed that they had a B-stock ULS-15 MK2. As such, just could NOT resist and I ordered it. I think at this time that I will just send the L12 back once it arrives. Will request a refund minus shipping back to Rythmik. Furthermore, when things are in order I will order a 2nd ULS-15 MK2. Hence, may even wait until there is another B-stock unit to be had. Think I have made the right decision.

Cheers,

Phil
Congrats.. Now you can enjoy yoru sub without fretting about if you purchased the best sub for your needs. :)
 
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3db

3db

Audioholic Slumlord
I have used the FV12 before, looks to be similar if not same driver as L12, so I have seen what that driver can do. While it has a good amount of throw, I would not qualify it as a high excursion driver. While I am not 100% sure that the SVS 2000 driver has greater xmax, I would be willing to bet a good chunk of money that it does. To hit 108 dB at 40 Hz means the 2000 driver has to have at least an inch of linear peak-to-peak excursion. That matches the Peerless XXLS spec of 12.5 mm xmax. While that isn't exactly huge excursion either, it isn't terrible for a 12". If you have a Rythmik sub that uses this driver, place a piece of tape on the dustcap, set up a mic with an RTA near the woofer, and run a deep frequency tone, and you can kind of get a feel for the xmax by eye-balling it, or better yet, take a picture from a camera in a static position with the tape on the dustcap at rest and a ruler in front of it, than take a pic from same exact position with the woofer at maximum linear throw and camera at long enough exposure to capture the whole throw, and compare the pics. Use the RTA like the one in REW to make sure the playback stays linear, and when it gets out of hand, you are past xmax. Also I will not be held responsible for any damages incurred if you try this!
I should have put the tape on the dust cap .. This is the LV12-R playing the bass intro to Live, Die, and Repeat.
 
KEW

KEW

Audioholic Overlord
No, I have NOT heard ANY of the subs I was considering. So, yeah I am taking a gamble here. B-stock sales are FINAL. As such, there is NO sending the ULS-15 MK2 sub back period. Unfortunately, I will have to eat the shipping costs back on the L12.

I do believe that I have made the right choice. One I can surely live with. Hopefully once a couple things get ironed out, then I will order a second LS-15 MK2. My plan all along is having duals whichever of the subs I ended up with.

Came across the deal on the ULS-15 MK2 sub and felt it was an opportunity for a good deal. In fact, might even wait until there is another before ordering my second ULS-15. SVS is still very much on my radar. That is, the Ultra Bookshelfs have my utmost attention as we speak.

Cheers,

Phil
You won't regret your decision!

Here's some reading to keep you while you are waiting for shipment!

http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/speaker-subwoofer-reviews/138545-hsu-research-uls-15-mk2-review.html
http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/home-audio-subwoofers/138553-hsu-research-uls-15-mk2-discussion-thread.html
 
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KEW

KEW

Audioholic Overlord
I should have put the tape on the dust cap .. This is the LV12-R playing the bass intro to Live, Die, and Repeat.
That looks like it is in the inch range to me (but hard to get any precision)!
What do you think, Shady?
My understanding of the Servo system is that it offers an added level of control which keeps the drivers behavior linear, so where a driver might have to be "over-designed" to get 1" of linear throw, with servo, that same driver might get 1-3/4" linear throw.
I am not sure the Rythmik Servo subs can be gauged using the same yardstick as the typical designs.
 
speakerman39

speakerman39

Audioholic Overlord
Yeah, I have read Jim's review. YOU are correct in that it does make me feel better. I have also been following Jim's posts over at AVS. Have learned a lot from him. Thanks for the links Kurt!

Cheers,

Phil
 

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