Help,my popcorn machine is collecting dust!

[BusterBrown]

Hello everyone. I need help getting started. Would like to have a decent HT system (HTIB)?? so the family and I can eat some popcorn and watch movies. I have been reading a lot here on the forum and other places and I am getting more and more confused on what I should get. I have never had anykind of system to watch movies at home. Pretty much anything I get is going to sound awesome to me. My main concern is reliability. Will it last 10years? Any advice would be greatly appreciated. I am willing to spend 500 to 1000. I know thats not alot of $$ but for a tone deaf guy it will be plenty.
Here is my setup. My livingroom is 16 x 16. I have just remodeled and have installed speaker wires behind new sheetrock. 4 wires. One to each corner of the room. I will be getting a new 40ish inch Plasma TV also. Again thanks for helping. Andrew

[Adam]

Welcome to the forum, Andrew!

You can definitely get something that will beat a TV speaker system for $500-$1000. Others on here are much better at putting together good systems based on current deals, so hopefully they'll chime in. I've read good things about the Infinity Primus line, and there's a review here on AH for the 363 towers. The Primus speakers are often on sale for very good prices.

As for reliability, every speaker that I've had has lasted over 10 years. Same goes for my electronics - one difference for me is that the capability of the electronics will get outdated faster. You might not want to keep a receiver for 10 years, for example. So, don't stretch your funds on the receiver and try to make it "future proof." Just get something that will handle what you want it to do, knowing that you'll probably want to upgrade in a few years.

Congrats on the upcoming new TV, btw! I'm sure that your popcorn machine won't be collecting dust for much longer.

[BusterBrown]

Thanks for the response Adam. I must clarify that the speaker wires that I put in are corners of the ceiling and not the floor. I didnt think about floor speakers when I was remodeling. So I am thinking that the 363's wont work for me. And on the reliable part was mainly for the AVR. I have been reading lots of reviews on them. Some say this one is good and then the next review for it says its crap and then no customer service to go with it. For many years I have had Yamaha ATV's and have been very pleased with there performance. Wondering if their electronics have the same longevity. For some odd reason I found myself walking around Best Buy the other day(no haters please) and they have a Yamaha HTIB. I cant remember the model number It was a 5.1 system. My question is should I go that route or another.

[Adam]

Hi. Sorry for the delay - I was entering one of the contests here.

The 363 was an example, but people here also recommend the Primus bookshelf speakers. It's just a thought. I have no personal experience with them.

Some HTIB are pretty good. I think that a number of people will say that you can get better gear for the same or less money if you're willing to shop around, but there's nothing fundamentally wrong with getting a HTIB. With anything, make sure that it has the connectivity that you want (and might want in the foreseeable future). HTIB receivers tend to have fewer connection options, which I don't like...but it might be just fine for your needs.

Be sure to peruse the AH site (they have reviews/previews of gear, including HTIB systems) and this forum. The "what system should I get for $X" is pretty typical, and some of those threads get good responses in them. It can be hit or miss because they happen so often that members here don't respond to every single one of them.

[FirstReflection]

Welcome to the forum!

Sorry to start on a bit of a downer, but it's a bit of a shame that you already installed the speaker wire in, unfortunately, the wrong spots Speakers for a home theater setup do not go in the corners of a room, and ceiling positions are basically a "last resort" when you have no other placement options. What you would want to do, ideally, is follow the recommended speaker positions suggested by Dolby , which are the standard that is also followed by THX, DTS and any other home theater audio companies.

So you might simply wind up not using the speaker wires that you've pre-installed, which is a bit of a shame since you went to the effort, but not the end of the world I'd certainly sooner have correct speaker placement than shove them into the upper corners and detract from the sound quality simply because wires have been pre-run to those locations

In terms of what you get from a HTiB, Onkyo, Denon and Yamaha all offer fairly decent all-in-one package options that at least give you a real receiver and some inexpensive, but functional speakers. The biggest problem I have with any HTiB though is that the subwoofers are really sub par. While it's obviously important to have a good center speaker for all of the dialogue and good Front L/R speakers for all of the music and effects, the subwoofer is what really makes a home theater sound and feel like going to a full sized movie theater! You do NOT want to skimp on the subwoofer!

The surround speakers are the least important. Surround effects are meant to envelop the audience and create ambient sounds and only the odd, distinct sound effect. In truth, if you want to recreate the same surround effects that you will hear in a movie theater, the surround speakers are meant to be placed 2-3 feet above the height of your head when you're sitting down. They're meant to be directly to either side, or just slightly behind your seat, and firing across the room's width overhead - ie. the two surround speakers are facing each other, and not aimed toward the listening position. So if you're going to skimp anywhere, skimp on the surround speakers, for sure. You can use super inexpensive speakers like these $28 bookshelf speakers from monoprice.com for surrounds and they'll do just fine

The Infinity Primus speakers are definitely an excellent suggestion for inexpensive, but very good speakers for a small room like yours. You don't have to buy directly from the Inifinity website. The Primus speakers are even less expensive elsewhere. For example, Amazon sells the PC251 Center for $150 and the matching P153 bookshelf speakers for $150/pair ($75 each).

So that's about $330 (if you use the very inexpensive monoprice speakers as surrounds) for 5 speakers. And that's good because it gives you a bit more room in the budget for a really great subwoofer like the HSU Research STF-2 , which is easily my favorite sub for under $500. In truth, you have to spend around $550 before you can get a sub that can really dig all the way down to 20Hz and stay clean, tight and accurate while doing so. But for $320, all the STF-2 is really "missing" are the lowest of the low notes. What makes it such a great value and such a great subwoofer is that it is accurate, tight and clean, so it really enhances both music and movies. It's not just one-note rumble or a bunch of distorted noise. It's controlled, accurate, clean bass, and it's a MASSIVE step above any of the subwoofers that come in a HTiB package. More than anything, getting this sub will make the little bit higher price of the system SO worth while. The sub is what will make it FEEL like you're at the movies. Trust me, don't skimp on the sub. You really cannot get anything less expensive than the STF-2 that even comes close

Now you just need to power it all! You've spent about $650 for 5 speakers and a sub if you go with these recommendations, so you can certainly work with the remaining $350 to get a decent receiver.

Your best deals are going to be in getting a factory refurbished unit from accessories4less.com. They are the manufacturer's authorized online retailer for factory refurbished units. So you still get a warranty and the guarantee of the manufacturer that these are fully functional and "like new" units. Many of them are literally brand new and merely on "clearance" for being a year old and replaced by newer models. So this is the best way to get a new receiver at a great discount directly from the manufacturers, IMO.

Onkyo and Denon both offer some really nice receivers within your budget via accessories4less. The Onkyo TX-NR609 could certainly do the trick and easily leave enough room in the budget to cover any shipping costs on the other products. The Denon AVR-1912 is also a heck of a nice unit that will just squeek under your budget cap

So you'd be getting a better receiver than a HTiB, better Front Left, Center, and Right speakers, surround speakers that are about on par, and a WAY better subwoofer! And all for within your $1000 budget cap. I can't imagine there's much to complain about with that

Hope that helps!

[BMXTRIX]

A bit off subject, but your mention of a 40" TV just bugged me. A 40" diagonal TV is very small if your viewing distance is beyond about 7 feet. The number one complaint of people who buy a HDTV is that they wish they had gotten a bigger size.

If you have a 27" tube television (old style CRT), then a 40" TV is almost the same height, and the added detail of HDTV will be lost at a normal 10-12' viewing distance.

At 12', a 60" diagonal TV is very reasonable and something that people find the right size very quickly.

You go from 'that is really big' to 'that is the right size' in about two weeks.

It takes a least two more months to go 'that is a bit small', but eventually you will feel that way!

Strongly consider a far larger display if you are viewing from a typical distance.

[BusterBrown]

Welcome to the forum!

Sorry to start on a bit of a downer, but it's a bit of a shame that you already installed the speaker wire in, unfortunately, the wrong spots Speakers for a home theater setup do not go in the corners of a room, and ceiling positions are basically a "last resort" when you have no other placement options. What you would want to do, ideally, is follow the recommended speaker positions suggested by Dolby , which are the standard that is also followed by THX, DTS and any other home theater audio companies.

So you might simply wind up not using the speaker wires that you've pre-installed, which is a bit of a shame since you went to the effort, but not the end of the world I'd certainly sooner have correct speaker placement than shove them into the upper corners and detract from the sound quality simply because wires have been pre-run to those locations

In terms of what you get from a HTiB, Onkyo, Denon and Yamaha all offer fairly decent all-in-one package options that at least give you a real receiver and some inexpensive, but functional speakers. The biggest problem I have with any HTiB though is that the subwoofers are really sub par. While it's obviously important to have a good center speaker for all of the dialogue and good Front L/R speakers for all of the music and effects, the subwoofer is what really makes a home theater sound and feel like going to a full sized movie theater! You do NOT want to skimp on the subwoofer!

The surround speakers are the least important. Surround effects are meant to envelop the audience and create ambient sounds and only the odd, distinct sound effect. In truth, if you want to recreate the same surround effects that you will hear in a movie theater, the surround speakers are meant to be placed 2-3 feet above the height of your head when you're sitting down. They're meant to be directly to either side, or just slightly behind your seat, and firing across the room's width overhead - ie. the two surround speakers are facing each other, and not aimed toward the listening position. So if you're going to skimp anywhere, skimp on the surround speakers, for sure. You can use super inexpensive speakers like these $28 bookshelf for surrounds and they'll do just fine

TheInfinity Primus speakers are definitely an excellent suggestion for inexpensive, but very good speakers for a small room like yours. You don't have to buy directly from the Inifinity website. The Primus speakers are even less expensive elsewhere. For example, Amazon sells the and the matching for $150/pair ($75 each).

So that's about $330 (if you use the very inexpensive monoprice speakers as surrounds) for 5 speakers. And that's good because it gives you a bit more room in the budget for a really great subwoofer like the , which is easily my favorite sub for under $500. In truth, you have to spend around $550 before you can get a sub that can really dig all the way down to 20Hz and stay clean, tight and accurate while doing so. But for $320, all the STF-2 is really "missing" are the lowest of the low notes. What makes it such a great value and such a great subwoofer is that it is accurate, tight and clean, so it really enhances both music and movies. It's not just one-note rumble or a bunch of distorted noise. It's controlled, accurate, clean bass, and it's a MASSIVE step above any of the subwoofers that come in a HTiB package. More than anything, getting this sub will make the little bit higher price of the system SO worth while. The sub is what will make it FEEL like you're at the movies. Trust me, don't skimp on the sub. You really cannot get anything less expensive than the STF-2 that even comes close

Now you just need to power it all! You've spent about $650 for 5 speakers and a sub if you go with these recommendations, so you can certainly work with the remaining $350 to get a decent receiver.

Your best deals are going to be in getting a factory refurbished unit from accessories4less.com. They are the manufacturer's authorized online retailer for factory refurbished units. So you still get a warranty and the guarantee of the manufacturer that these are fully functional and "like new" units. Many of them are literally brand new and merely on "clearance" for being a year old and replaced by newer models. So this is the best way to get a new receiver at a great discount directly from the manufacturers, IMO.

Onkyo and Denon both offer some really nice receivers within your budget via accessories4less. The could certainly do the trick and easily leave enough room in the budget to cover any shipping costs on the other products. The is also a heck of a nice unit that will just squeek under your budget cap

So you'd be getting a better receiver than a HTiB, better Front Left, Center, and Right speakers, surround speakers that are about on par, and a WAY better subwoofer! And all for within your $1000 budget cap. I can't imagine there's much to complain about with that

Hope that helps!

[QUOTE=BMXTRIX;894408]A bit off subject, but your mention of a 40" TV just bugged me. A 40" diagonal TV is very small if your viewing distance is beyond about 7 feet. The number one complaint of people who buy a HDTV is that they wish they had gotten a bigger size.

If you have a 27" tube television (old style CRT), then a 40" TV is almost the same height, and the added detail of HDTV will be lost at a normal 10-12' viewing distance.

At 12', a 60" diagonal TV is very reasonable.


FirstReflections, Thanks a million. The info and links were spot on. I do have a few questions though. The AVR's are rated at 90w and 100w. The monoprice Bookshelfs were 80w. Does this mean I would blow them up?? Should I just get the Primus surrounds?? What watt are they rated at. I could not find it on the link. Also each AVR is a 7.1 I will just have 5.1 I am guessing thats alright? Just have to decide which on then. On the wires...Ooops I thought I was doing good. Oh well. Thats why I am on the forum so I can find stuff out.


BMXTRIX, On the TV I basicly have a 48"W X 44"D X 8' space to put the TV, TV stand, sub, center etc. I will get the biggest that I can fit in there. My old TV was 27" so I think it may take a little longer than 2 months to get that feeling of wanting a jumbotron. Thanks for the info as I probablely would have gotten just a 40" and called it good because of price. I will get the biggest I can fit.

[lsiberian]

I suggest craigslist

KEF satellite speakers/Yamaha Receiver & Bello Tv stand.

is an example of a fantastic starter set for your home theater. 400 is not a bad deal for the KEF 2005 set a KEF sub and receiver. Those speakers are fantastic and if you need small speakers you'll be hard pressed to do better.

KEF Coda 9.2 Speakers .MINT!!!!
is another option worth looking at. You could combine these as fronts and use 4 of the KEF eggs as surrounds.

surround sound speakers - Infinity
Beta 40 towers are equal to the bottom Revel stuff(high end line)
I'm not sure I'd want to pay 500 for the set though.

NHT Speakers ...EXELLENT!!!
Another solid option

If you want new you are probably not going to do as well as the used market in your budget range(Speakers if well cared for can last a long time). That said Infinity Primus bookshelves or towers are good speakers and Energy CF30s are good speakers.

Accessories4less: High End Audio at Low End Prices! is the cheapest place with the best customer service for receivers.

[BusterBrown]

I suggest craigslist



is an example of a fantastic starter set for your home theater. 400 is not a bad deal for the KEF 2005 set a KEF sub and receiver. Those speakers are fantastic and if you need small speakers you'll be hard pressed to do better.


is another option worth looking at. You could combine these as fronts and use 4 of the KEF eggs as surrounds.

surround sound speakers
Beta 40 towers are equal to the bottom Revel stuff(high end line)
I'm not sure I'd want to pay 500 for the set though.

NHT Speakers ...EXELLENT!
Another solid option

If you want new you are probably not going to do as well as the used market in your budget range(Speakers if well cared for can last a long time). That said Infinity Primus bookshelves or towers are good speakers and Energy CF30s are good speakers.

Accessories4les is the cheapest place with the best customer service for receivers.


Thanks for the links. The KEF's look a little to Trekie for me. As for used stuff it looks good but I would like a warranty.

[FirstReflection]

You should be able to fit a 50" display in that space - assuming a fairly thin 2" or less frame around the picture (which is totally normal these days. Lots of TVs have very thin frames nowadays )

A 50" display is a pretty nice screen size in many "typical" living rooms. The SMPTE recommended viewing distance would be 6.77 feet from eyes to screen with a 50" display. The farthest away you would want to sit from a 50" HDTV is about 8.5 feet. So anywhere in that range is a good distance from that size of screen, which works out pretty nicely in a lot of rooms 50" displays are also pretty darn affordable these days. For example, the excellent Panasonic TC-P50ST50 is only about $1100 at a lot of places. The TC-P50ST50 is 46.5 inches wide and 30 inches tall when it's on its stand, so it should fit just perfectly into the space that you mentioned

As for the speakers, one thing to know is that you can basically never have "too much" amplifier power. The easiest way to think of it is that the speakers "draw" power from the amplifier. The amplifier does not "push" power into the speakers, so there's not really any worry about having more amplifier power than you need The real danger is in having too little amplifier power. What happens is that the signal can get "clipped", which produces a horrible noise and can damage a speaker. If you think about the signal looking like a wave - rising up and down in a nice sine wave shape - if you imagine that the speaker is trying to move smoothly in and out like that wave, but the amp has too little power, then the peaks and dips of the wave get "clipped off" by the amp and you wind up with sort of a square wave looking shape, which speakers cannot reproduce without sounding absolutely awful and possibly damaging the speakers!

So absolutely no worries about "blowing up" a speaker like the monoprice bookshelf speakers

Now, I certainly have no problem with you buying different speakers, such as the Infinity P143 or another pair of P153 to go along with the P153 bookshelf speakers up front with the PC251 Center. I only mentioned the monoprice speakers because I really wanted to try and stay within your budget and the monoprice speakers are extremely inexpensive, but still "good enough" to handle the duties of surround speakers If you're willing to spend a little more money, then by all means, get some matching Infinity Primus speakers!

As for using a 7.1 receiver - there is no problem at all with using 5 speakers and a subwoofer. In fact, you could use just a stereo pair of front speakers with a 7.1 receiver if you wanted to. There are options in the receiver's menu. You can tell the receiver how many speakers you have, and whether they can play the entire range of audible frequencies (from 20Hz all the way up to 20,000Hz) - these are called "Large" or "Full Range" speakers - or you can tell the receiver that your speakers are "small" and to reroute the low bass frequencies to the subwoofer instead.

With the Primus P153 and PC251 Center and whatever surround speakers you choose, you should tell your receiver that you have "small" speakers and you'll want to use an 80Hz or 90Hz "cross-over", which means that all the low bass below 80 or 90Hz gets sent to the subwoofer instead so that the speakers can focus on all the frequencies above that 80 or 90Hz cross-over point.

With a 7.1 receiver, you simply tell it that you do not have any surround back 6th & 7th speakers. You set those to "none". That way, the receiver knows that you are using only 5 speakers and a subwoofer. And do not worry, if you listen to a Blu-ray that has a 7.1 soundtrack, you will not "lose" any sound. The sounds that would have come out of the 6th & 7th surround back speakers will simply get routed to the surround speakers that you have instead. So there are no worries at all