Two 10"'s better than one 12" sub

HurleyBC · Apr 4, 2005

I am looking to upgrade my energy 8" sub with either a 12 or was thinking maybe two tens. I was wondering the advatages to having 2 subs versus one? Or what the disadvantages are? It would be great if someone could explain it in a less complex way as i am kinda new to this?

ducker · Apr 4, 2005

I wish I could help... but I don't know enough.

But I'm sure people would want to know what you curerntly have, what your budget is for a sub upgrade, and the layout of the room.

zumbo · Apr 4, 2005

I have a 12". I prefer a 10". So I certainly would go with two 10's. But, if the 12" is brand "A", and the two 10's are brand "B", then you might need further discussion. But, even then, I would find it hard for one 12" to compete with two 10's.

HurleyBC · Apr 4, 2005

I listen to 50% music and 50% movies i would say. My current set up Yamaha 750, athena f1's c1 and energy surrounds. I currently have a 8" energy sub. Is it difficult to get the subs to be on par with each other when you have two going? And placement would both go up front with the front speakers or throw one sub in the rear? The subs I am looking at are velodyne dsp 10's or 12. The reason cause I have a buddy working that gives me killer deals. I wish I could afford svs or hsu but i just can't when I am going to college. Thanks for the help.

zumbo · Apr 4, 2005

I have heard it is best to stack them. I have also heard that if you put one in front and one in back, you need to reverse the phase on one of them. That would be an expensive sub cable for me. If it were mine, I would try one in one corner, and one in the other. Then try them stacked. I would even try one facing the corner wall set to reverse, and one turned facing the room in the same corner set normal. It would be fun!

cbraver · Apr 4, 2005

HurleyBC said:
I listen to 50% music and 50% movies i would say. My current set up Yamaha 750, athena f1's c1 and energy surrounds. I currently have a 8" energy sub. Is it difficult to get the subs to be on par with each other when you have two going? And placement would both go up front with the front speakers or throw one sub in the rear? The subs I am looking at are velodyne dsp 10's or 12. The reason cause I have a buddy working that gives me killer deals. I wish I could afford svs or hsu but i just can't when I am going to college. Thanks for the help.

Not really, with some care. I have almost always found stacking two subwoofers to be sonically the best as opposed to putting them on opposite sides of the room, etc. But it highly depends on the room. It'll take a little work, but two subs does work very well.

The Velodyne's are awesome subs, you won't be disappointed... and I have heard both HSU and SVS and found neither to be comparable to simular priced Velodyne's and M&Ks. But, let your ears do the deciding.

-Chad

HurleyBC · Apr 4, 2005

Now do I just use a y-adapter to plug them into the reciever and I am guessing you need to use identical subwoofers rather than me Buying one 12 and keep my 8 for the rear?

I was also looking at the 8" athenas but buying two of them. IT would save me 200 bux if I got these over the velodynes but I want the best sound

cbraver · Apr 4, 2005

You can use two different subwoofers. Normally it's not a good idea to use a "cheap" one with a "good" one though. Keep that in mind. But two subs of simular quality, even if their sizes are different, is fine.

If you are putting one in the front and one in the rear, reverse the phase. Try all different kinds of positions though, it depends on the room. Like I said, stacking seems to work best most often for me.

Yeah, a Y cable works fine. Sometime recievers have stereo LFE outputs too.

Dan · Apr 4, 2005

All things being equal I would prefer two 10" over one twelve. The surface area of two 10" = 2*pi*5squared or 50pi. One twelve is 36pi. Remember the formula for surface area. They therefore have nearly 50% greater surface area than one twelve. Also the 10" should be lighter and therefore faster and more accurate. I have made several assumptions here that you should verify with the exact models you are considering. I have two subs connected to the R and L outs so they are stereo and they are near and to the outside of the main speakers in phase. Sounds great.

cbraver · Apr 4, 2005

Dan said:
Also the 10" should be lighter and therefore faster and more accurate.

Um. No. 40Hz is 40Hz, whether it's played by a 8" sub or an 18" sub. Hz are Hz. There are plenty of more legitament arguements for all kinds of sizes, but, that's not one.

-Chad

HurleyBC · Apr 4, 2005

So does the lower hz mean that the sub will pick up sounds such as doors shutting in movies that my 8" may not pick up the same way or does it mean that its just lower bass frequencies all around? Also does this mean I should stay away from two athena 8's that would be about 200 bucks cheaper?

zumbo · Apr 4, 2005

Dan said:
Also the 10" should be lighter and therefore faster and more accurate.

cbraver said:
Um. No. 40Hz is 40Hz, whether it's played by a 8" sub or an 18" sub. Hz are Hz. There are plenty of more legitament arguements for all kinds of sizes, but, that's not one.

-Chad

Yes it is. Dan didn't say anything about Hz. His statement is the reason I prefer 10's.

zumbo · Apr 4, 2005

HurleyBC said:
So does the lower hz mean that the sub will pick up sounds such as doors shutting in movies that my 8" may not pick up the same way or does it mean that its just lower bass frequencies all around? Also does this mean I should stay away from two athena 8's that would be about 200 bucks cheaper?

I would stay with Velodyne.

Reggie Died · Apr 4, 2005

cbraver said:
The Velodyne's are awesome subs, you won't be disappointed... and I have heard both HSU and SVS and found neither to be comparable to simular priced Velodyne's and M&Ks. But, let your ears do the deciding.
-Chad

Are there any specific reasons why you prefer the Velodyne DPS10 vs an HSU STF1 or STF2?

I'm in the market for a sub, and these were my three choices. Of course, price comes into play, with the STF 1, and the DPS10 and STF2 being 499.

cbraver · Apr 4, 2005

zumbo said:
Yes it is. Dan didn't say anything about Hz. His statement is the reason I prefer 10's.

Um, when you are talking about "speed," you are taking about "Hz". Making general statements like a 10 is faster than a 12, is just plain wrong. Lighter does NOT neccessarly more accurate, nor does the cone size. That's like buying a suit that is your size, but not looking at what color it is or any of it's other characteristics.

Just stop making generalizations like that, even with that timely "all things being equal." Well, a different driver size requires a different set of equipment, a different amp, a different enclosure, etc. etc. etc. They are NOT the same animal in terms of engineering.

We all do it sometimes, but, it's good to call eachother on it too.

-Chad

cbraver · Apr 4, 2005

Reggie Died said:
Are there any specific reasons why you prefer the Velodyne DPS10 vs an HSU STF1 or STF2?

I'm in the market for a sub, and these were my three choices. Of course, price comes into play, with the STF 1, and the DPS10 and STF2 being 499.

I should have been more clear, I have only heard the STF2, not the STF1...but the 1 is lower on the line, so I assume that isn't really an issue.

I've heard both the DPS10 and the STF2, and they happened to be in the same room on the same gear! The DPS10 just simply sounded better to me. Tighter and more dynamic by far. And when the volume was cranked it was very noticable that the DPS10 was outperforming the STF2. It also had more juice and the driver was holding it well.

The DPS10 also blew it away with ergonomics. That front panel was pretty trick. It even had a "night mode" that was pretty cool for if you are watching a movie late at night and you don't want to disturb your wife/kids/neighbors/etc.

Also, if you buy it in a store, I even think the DPS10 might turn out to be cheaper. I get a kick out of HSU with their "normally it's 499...but if you buy FACTORY DIRECT it's only 399." *snicker* Some deal. It's insulting. Just give me the damn price instead of "the price + 100" and then under it "the price." It's on thing as a reseller (and it works as reseller, list MSRP and then show what your selling it for)...but as a factory, it's just silly.

-Chad

cbraver · Apr 4, 2005

Oh, I should say that I was impressed with the HSU in terms of performance for the wattage they give it. I thought it would run out of juice sooner than it did.

-Chad

Reggie Died · Apr 4, 2005

cbraver said:
I should have been more clear, I have only heard the STF2, not the STF1...but the 1 is lower on the line, so I assume that isn't really an issue.

I've heard both the DPS10 and the STF2, and they happened to be in the same room on the same gear! The DPS10 just simply sounded better to me. Tighter and more dynamic by far. And when the volume was cranked it was very noticable that the DPS10 was outperforming the STF2. It also had more juice and the driver was holding it well.

The DPS10 also blew it away with ergonomics. That front panel was pretty trick. It even had a "night mode" that was pretty cool for if you are watching a movie late at night and you don't want to disturb your wife/kids/neighbors/etc.

Also, if you buy it in a store, I even think the DPS10 might turn out to be cheaper. I get a kick out of HSU with their "normally it's 499...but if you buy FACTORY DIRECT it's only 399." *snicker* Some deal. It's insulting. Just give me the damn price instead of "the price + 100" and then under it "the price." It's on thing as a reseller (and it works as reseller, list MSRP and then show what your selling it for)...but as a factory, it's just silly.

-Chad

Thanks Chad,

I've been debatting for a while. I live in Canada, so SVS is out of the equation, but a local dealer here sells the STF2 for $499.99 (MSRP is $549

).

However, the DPS is sold at Futureshop for $499.99. It was on sale last week for $399.99, so i might hold out for it to go on sale again. Also, a few friends work there, so possibly get store discount. ALSO, the futureshop in question is on indian land, and therefore no taxes when my native co worker buys it for me.

Even with no discount, and not on sale, I save a good $70 bucks on taxes going with the Velodyne. Since it's futureshop, i'll also have a 30 day return policy.

Congratulations, you've convinced me to go Velodyne.

cbraver · Apr 4, 2005

Reggie Died said:
Thanks Chad,

I've been debatting for a while. I live in Canada, so SVS is out of the equation, but a local dealer here sells the STF2 for $499.99 (MSRP is $549 ).

However, the DPS is sold at Futureshop for $499.99. It was on sale last week for $399.99, so i might hold out for it to go on sale again.

Hahaha, see!!! Plus your getting "more" with the Velodyne. Besides (my opinion) it sounding significantly better.... it also has some nice features that aren't overdone and the finish is even better on it if that is an issue with the wife/girlfriend/you. It's a great package for the money.

Congratulations, you've convinced me to go Velodyne.

Enjoy! Let me know how you like it!

-Chad

nibhaz · Apr 4, 2005

cbraver said:
Um, when you are talking about "speed," you are taking about "Hz". Making general statements like a 10 is faster than a 12, is just plain wrong. Lighter does NOT neccessarly more accurate, nor does the cone size. That's like buying a suit that is your size, but not looking at what color it is or any of it's other characteristics.

Just stop making generalizations like that, even with that timely "all things being equal." Well, a different driver size requires a different set of equipment, a different amp, a different enclosure, etc. etc. etc. They are NOT the same animal in terms of engineering.

We all do it sometimes, but, it's good to call eachother on it too.

-Chad

Actually...I think he was referring to the speed at which the cone is able to switch from one note to another, or you could say the speed at which it changes the Hz that is producing. The idea is that the lighter driver takes less effort to move thus all other things being equal it respond quicker than a larger more resistive driver. Or so the thought process goes…but I’m not saying it true…

Two 10"'s better than one 12" sub

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