Response to audiouser

<font color='#000000'>Rob,

It seems you are the first out of the gate with flaming in mind;

<table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"> The tone of your last post is pretty much flame bait and I can see &quot;your mind&quot; is already made up.</td></tr></table>

So you think you are an expert in psychology? (NOT)

It's also clear you are fairly uninformed about ASICs, firmware and surround technology in general. *But that's OK, you can go on deluding yourself to your ear's content, no skin off my back!

People here at least deserve to be told the facts about Lexicon's Logic7, which by the way you don't seem to know much about.

If you would like to learn about the physics of acoustics in our house-sized rooms, I can recommend the book, &quot;Master Handbook of Acoustics&quot;, 4th edition by F. Alton Everest and a website with good explanations of a demo room and acoustic software I've been using for the last 5 years, ETF5 (http://www.etfacoustic.com). &nbsp;Then maybe we can have a more meaningful discussion.

Actually I'd rather buy Meridian not Lexicon, but that's another subject.</font>

<font color='#000000'>Bruce,

I think you are right that I was the first to post a true &quot;Flame&quot; and not go back and edit it later, and I actually do feel poorly about it. *I let you get under my skin and shame on me for not rising above that. *But we all know that's not the first time your posts have angered others, so I don't feel too bad about it.

FYI I never said I knew anything about Logic7, if you recall from another thread; I was the one who asked for some conversation about it. *Because I was interested in the used MC-1 idea you suggested. *Which did not pan out at the fabulous price you mentioned. *I have no idea how we got to be looking at RTSPA and generalizing on small room acoustics, but that is your style of &quot;debate&quot; not mine.

Still, thank-you for the idea it was nice alternative. *If you are a high end HK fan and on a &quot;imported&quot; beer buget your idea is excellent. *I still think it's a bit pricy myself, at best you'll still be coming at around $4000 when it's all said and done.

Back to Harman's &quot;ground up&quot; software, ya I do know a little bit about ASICs and how they are implemented, I'm not an expert tho and I don't pretend to be one. *Logic7 (what they have developed from the ground up) might be really good, but most people are going to prefer the pre-canned THX/DTS/DD modes with the movies mixed to use them, with Logic7 as a neato Cirrus Logic style gravy on the side (or marketing gimmick). *I know because that's the way it's been presented to me (twice in the same day!).

Really, does that make any sense at all? *Buying a 13K processor to get a DSP good for watching cable TV and VHS? *Now that's entertainment! *You could go on about stereo music performance and how in demand that is. *As far as I'm concerned ask someone who cares, it's not me. *HK hypes Logic7 for cinema surround, and cinema was the focus of our little tiff.

To do a quick Bruce here-
To improve your stereo sound ditch your dyna-audios (ya I know who they are) and go here- http://www.linkwitzlab.com/publications.htm#15
he's got lots of math way fancier than the HK site, except he is not trying to sell it. *Your speakers are probably designed using theory he pioneered. *He's got some good views on the high end &quot;see it at CES&quot; gear you seem to like.

By your own admission in another thread you can't compare matrixed 2 channel to discrete 5 channel. *So how can you compare Logic7 matrixed 5.1 to discrete 6.1 like DTS? *Just a special rule for Logic7 I guess. *In the end it's just another DSP that works like all the other DSP's piggy backing off Dolby (mostly) and DTS encoding standards.

About your &quot;everyone uses HK for pro recording&quot;. *Well no, they all do not. *Just like they all do not use M&amp;K or Yamaha etc... it's a silly argument, people use what ever they want and are used to. *Abbey Road, the people who mixed LOTH (a proud Logic7 DVD mentioned by you) only has 1 Lexicon/HK processor listed on thier available inventory. *Considering they have four studios that says something right there.

All that said you can get those native algorithms and formats (THX DD DTS) on the same processor chips on a variety of cheaper and quality comparable competing products. *That's just business and reality, so if your looking for good value, high end HK might not be it. *Some people might want the ultimate Logic7 and have an ultra high end HK product instead of an RSP. *All the power to them to have it, that's a personal choice.

From the rate at which you can pull marketing specs out of the air (Like all three Logic7 &quot;certified&quot; DVD's available), I can see that you may have had someone feed you this information. *Like a Lexicon golden marketer, unless you normally memorize DVD tiles and how they are encoded. *That, or your have a lot of faith in one single web sites reviews, probably because you have the same first name as one of the reviewers. *I don't know you might be that way.

On that note, I have indeed very recently seen another sites review of Lexicon (and Meridian) gear, and it has an opinion very very similar to yours. *It's also no Secret they also do not have Yamaha's latest Flagship unit reviewed and love stupid cables.

You are welcome to your own opinion and perceptions. *Vote on it with your dollars like everyone else does.

I'm done with this.</font>

<font color='#000000'>Rob,

You might be a bit confused, *and you should probably check your facts before stating such falsehoods, now you pissed me off.

HK is not the inventor/originator of Logic7, that's Lexicon's claim to fame. *I'm not really talking about the brain dead Logic7 in HK receivers, I wouldn't want any of HK's receivers.

<table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">. . . *with Logic7 as a neato Cirrus Logic style gravy on the side (or marketing gimmick). *I know because that's the way it's been presented to me (twice in the same day!).
</td></tr></table>
Cirrus makes a DSP chip with their &quot;special DSP effects&quot; Cirrus Surround (included in Outlaw 950 and Rotel 1066 prepros), except it doesn't do stereo rear surrounds, so you should probably not listen to those people telling you Logic7 is just like Cirrus surround, they are completely wrong. *Yes, Lexicon also licensed code to Cirrus so Cirrus could include Logic7 firmware in silicon, but that is a separate story.

<table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"> Really, does that make any sense at all? *Buying a 13K processor to get a DSP good for watching cable TV and VHS? *Now that's entertainment! *You could go on about stereo music performance and how in demand that is. *As far as I'm concerned ask someone who cares, it's not me. *HK hypes Logic7 for cinema surround, and cinema was the focus of our little tiff.</td></tr></table>
This shows you don't really understand the subject at all.
HK doesn't sell a 13k processor, HK sells surround receivers.
Lexicon's Logic7 delivers stereo sides and stereo rears from digital 5.1 sources and not just 2-channel sources, why don't you do a little reading first before opening your mouth with facts that are wrong.

Here is a Lexicon MC-1 (http://cgi.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cl.pl?homeproc&1063508314&class&3&4&) for $1475 not $13K that combined with a multichannel amp would beat anything you could get with a receiver for the same dollars.

I think you need to go back and do more original research like I did. *You simply don't make a compelling or knowledgeable case.

Yes, I visited the Linkwitz site 2 years ago and currently use a Linkwitz-Riley based 4th order symmetrical electronic crossover between my mains and sub(s).

By the way, I've been a regular participating member on more than 6 different HT/audio forums for the last 5 years.

What's your experience, care to share?</font>

[Khellandros66]

<font color='#000000'>Bruce~

I have to agree with you totally. &nbsp;I think that if I had the money to spend on a Pre/Pro the first company that would come to mind would definitely be Lexicon. &nbsp;As for the Logic7, I have heard only on HK receivers, which compared to my Yamaha RX-V1300 did not compare. &nbsp;However the JBL version of MC-12 was awesome in Logic7. &nbsp;Pound (Feature) for dollar though Yamaha RX-Z1 (not using amp) vs. Lexicon MC-8 would be a hard bargain.

I ain't crazy either. &nbsp;The RX-Z1 has a 32bit Floating Point Quantinization DSP, plus dual 44bit DSPs, and ten 192kHz/24bit Burr-Brown DACs. &nbsp;If you look at the MC-8 it has four 32bit Analog SHARCs and a Cirus DSP, and also 10 192kHz/24bit DACs. &nbsp;If you take price into consideration, the RX-Z1 as a preamp would give the MC-8 a run for its money.

Kinda like the new Dodge Neon SRT (w/ new chip of course) and a Dodge Viper

;)~

Bob</font>

<font color='#000000'>Bob,

While I don't dispute your list of specs, my years of*experience with ASICs and DSPs tells me the firmware implementation is much more important than just the chip specs. *That is where Lexicon and Meridian excel.

So in this instance I would have to say it would not even be a fair comparison, the Lex MC-8/MC-12 has a higher quality surround sound firmware impelmentation and would take the Yamaha hands down in a challenge without a doubt. *I even suspect the older Lex MC-1 would beat the Yamaha and be cheaper to boot (used).</font>