what are the causes for the onkyo 875 to go into protection mode???

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S

subhash

Enthusiast
hi all , great to be here

i have encountered this strange problem of the onkyo 875 to go into protection mode @ vol levels of -5db , this was first noticed while watching the bluray of king kong , and also incredible hulk ( basically it happens where the soundtrack is very demanding) had never encountered this untill now with dvds @ even higher vol levels

let me explain my set up the onkyo 875 is basically used as the pre /processor its a 7.1 set up

main L/R powerd by enternal power amp , vincent SP331MK
center --powered by carver TFM35X @ mono mode
sorround L/R powered by another carver tfm35x
the back sorrounds powered by the onky875
velodyne cht12r sub
jamo c 809 spkr pack
pioneer LX52 BDP
optoma hd65 pj
connection from bdp to avr is thro hdmi ,and avr out to pj is hdmi
connection to all power amps is thro chord chameleon IC
chord odyysey spkr cables

i have tried all parameters
chkd out all spkr wires and interconnects --none are loose all routed thro banana plugs

disconnected the power amps and routed all the spkrs thro the 875, hear it trips @ -2b as compared to -4db with external power amps

my level calibration @ the avr is as follows
L/R --set to 2db
centre --set to -2db
sorround L/R set to 5db
back sorrounds set to 3db
sub is @ -3db

i have not done the audyssey set up

any suggestions will be apreciated , am really kind of pissed off :mad:as i like to watch some movies @ really loud levels ,,, pleaz help
 
Adam

Adam

Audioholic Jedi
Hi. The first thing that came to mind were speaker wire shorts, but you've checked that. One sure fire way to find out if it's the problem is to disconnect all of the speakers and see if it goes into protection mode at those volume settings.

What sort of ventilation do you have around the 875? Perhaps it is overheating. One way to check that out is to blow a fan over it and see if the problem goes away - if it does, then you need to have better ventilation to run it as loud as you want.

Strange to me that it happens with most speakers being run off of external amps, but I don't know how the heat dissipation of the unit varies between using the internal amps versus external amps.
 
M Code

M Code

Audioholic General
subhash said:
hi all , great to be here

i have encountered this strange problem of the onkyo 875 to go into protection mode @ vol levels of -5db , this was first noticed while watching the bluray of king kong , and also incredible hulk ( basically it happens where the soundtrack is very demanding) had never encountered this untill now with dvds @ even higher vol levels

let me explain my set up the onkyo 875 is basically used as the pre /processor its a 7.1 set up

main L/R powerd by enternal power amp , vincent SP331MK
center --powered by carver TFM35X @ mono mode
sorround L/R powered by another carver tfm35x
the back sorrounds powered by the onky875
velodyne cht12r sub
jamo c 809 spkr pack
pioneer LX52 BDP
optoma hd65 pj
connection from bdp to avr is thro hdmi ,and avr out to pj is hdmi
connection to all power amps is thro chord chameleon IC
chord odyysey spkr cables

i have tried all parameters
chkd out all spkr wires and interconnects --none are loose all routed thro banana plugs

disconnected the power amps and routed all the spkrs thro the 875, hear it trips @ -2b as compared to -4db with external power amps

my level calibration @ the avr is as follows
L/R --set to 2db
centre --set to -2db
sorround L/R set to 5db
back sorrounds set to 3db
sub is @ -3db

i have not done the audyssey set up

any suggestions will be apreciated , am really kind of pissed off :mad:as i like to watch some movies @ really loud levels ,,, pleaz help
Click to expand...
The Onkyo 875 runs on the hot side even if not using its internal amplifiers..
It has to do with the way they bias the output devices.

However it is pertinent that you have at least 3-4" inches in clearance around the top and left/right sides and rear...

Just my $0.01... ;)
 
S

skers_54

Full Audioholic
Are you using the video processing on the 875? IIRC, the Reon processor runs very hot on the Onkyo units. Not sure if turning those off will help, but it can't hurt to test it out.

Also, do you have a temperature gun, or at leat a thermometer? Comparing the temperatures after making changes would be safer and faster than waiting to see if your 875 still shuts down.
 
S

subhash

Enthusiast
Adam said:
Hi. The first thing that came to mind were speaker wire shorts, but you've checked that. One sure fire way to find out if it's the problem is to disconnect all of the speakers and see if it goes into protection mode at those volume settings.

What sort of ventilation do you have around the 875? Perhaps it is overheating. One way to check that out is to blow a fan over it and see if the problem goes away - if it does, then you need to have better ventilation to run it as loud as you want.

Strange to me that it happens with most speakers being run off of external amps, but I don't know how the heat dissipation of the unit varies between using the internal amps versus external amps.
Click to expand...
thanks adam , about your first quote , what u are saying is i disconnect all the spkrs and crank up the vol ? (ie is no spkr connected to it right) , but my spkrs are routed thro the external power amps , do i need to disconnect spkrs from the powwer amp? or disconnect power amp from avr?

can this also be chkd by not putting on all of the external power amp ( ie jst putting on the avr and cranking up the vol?

regarding the placement of the AVR , i dont think its an issue here , its free from all sides , and its always used with AC

here is a pic of the avr placement
 

Attachments

S

subhash

Enthusiast
skers_54 said:
Are you using the video processing on the 875? IIRC, the Reon processor runs very hot on the Onkyo units. Not sure if turning those off will help, but it can't hurt to test it out.

Also, do you have a temperature gun, or at leat a thermometer? Comparing the temperatures after making changes would be safer and faster than waiting to see if your 875 still shuts down.
Click to expand...

the bdp is routed thro the AVR thro hdmi , and from the avr to the projector through hdmi out

the setting for the video in the avr is through, so i dont think the reon processor is doing much here, correct me if i am wrong

note--this tripping problem happens only on blu ray play back especially on DTS HD MA audio play back, it trips @ -4db vol levels, when the sound track is demanding


i can definetly chk the temp
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Rickster71

Rickster71

Audioholic Spartan
Have you tried running it without the back surrounds connected?

Some other thoughts: How many, and what amperage are the circuits in your theater?
I'm wonder what the voltage drop is at those listening levels.
Do you happen to have one of those power conditioners that shows the voltage?
You mentioned you have the AC on; I'm wondering if an overall low voltage condition is shutting the unit off. (just a thought)

When it happens, put your hand on the top and see how hot it's getting. Or better yet, get a thermometer.

EDIT:Don't forget to try any suggested fixes, one at a time.
I think it's possible to shut off the Reon processor.
It's something to try after the other suggestions.
 
Last edited:
avliner

avliner

Audioholic Chief
Basically we all know that the Onkyos are definetely on the "hot side", but what seems strange to me is that the OP is powering ONLY the surround back speakers off the 875 though.

Furthermore, he said the shutdown only happens when watching BD's, especially DTS-HD MA tracks.

Not sure, but is there anything related to the "DTS-HDMA bomb" issue that was related to the Onkyos not so long ago? Just a guess, though.
 
lsiberian

lsiberian

Audioholic Overlord
avliner said:
Basically we all know that the Onkyos are definetely on the "hot side", but what seems strange to me is that the OP is powering ONLY the surround back speakers off the 875 though.

Furthermore, he said the shutdown only happens when watching BD's, especially DTS-HD MA tracks.

Not sure, but is there anything related to the "DTS-HDMA bomb" issue that was related to the Onkyos not so long ago? Just a guess, though.
Click to expand...
What you talking about Willis? I've never heard of such a issue.

Protected mode usually comes in play if you have the volume cranked to high or a short between speaker terminals. Remember protected mode is essentially a breaker.
 
M

MatthewB.

Audioholic General
The answer is easy. Bad solder joint. I had the same exact problem with my 805 and shipped it to Onkyo and the tech I talked to claimed the #1 issue with protect mode issues was bad solder joints.
 
M

MatthewB.

Audioholic General
By the way isiberian I used my 805 as a preamp only and mine went into protect mode the moment I tried to turn it on, so no sound had the chance to even begin. Bad solder joints, with lead no longer being used this is a major issue.
 
MidnightSensi

MidnightSensi

Audioholic Samurai
MatthewB. said:
The answer is easy. Bad solder joint. I had the same exact problem with my 805 and shipped it to Onkyo and the tech I talked to claimed the #1 issue with protect mode issues was bad solder joints.
Click to expand...
I remember a thread on here a while saying that we would see an increase in solder failures in these upcoming years because of the environmental regulations imposed regarding typical solder.

Anyone remember anything like that?
 
lsiberian

lsiberian

Audioholic Overlord
MatthewB. said:
By the way isiberian I used my 805 as a preamp only and mine went into protect mode the moment I tried to turn it on, so no sound had the chance to even begin. Bad solder joints, with lead no longer being used this is a major issue.
Click to expand...
Yeah it's the stupidest thing conceived. There is a reason we use lead. This is also the reason I'm considering building my own amps when I get the space.
 
dapack69

dapack69

Senior Audioholic
MidnightSensi said:
I remember a thread on here a while saying that we would see an increase in solder failures in these upcoming years because of the environmental regulations imposed regarding typical solder.

Anyone remember anything like that?
Click to expand...
What regulations would that be? Here in the states or overseas? If its here in the states it has nothing to do with them. Since they are not manufactured here.
 
M Code

M Code

Audioholic General
dapack69 said:
What regulations would that be? Here in the states or overseas? If its here in the states it has nothing to do with them. Since they are not manufactured here.
Click to expand...
Here you go..
Called ROHs compliance..
The lead was removed from the solder...

http://www.rohsguide.com/rohs-faq.htm

Started 3 years back in Europe as they are driving more of the energy and green movements..
In 2010 even more statues kick in.
Though driven by Europe, the Far East factories want to make to a single global standard.

Just my $0.01... ;)
 
Rickster71

Rickster71

Audioholic Spartan
dapack69 said:
What regulations would that be? Here in the states or overseas? If its here in the states it has nothing to do with them. Since they are not manufactured here.
Click to expand...
ISO standards have been in place for many years.
I was with a major telecom co for 15 years, PCB design.
If it's imported to, or from here, it has to meet those standards.
One of those being, crappy lead free solder.
 
XEagleDriver

XEagleDriver

Audioholic Chief
Is the Floor Carpet ?

. . . here is a pic of the avr placement
Click to expand...

If the floor is carpet (hard to tell from the picture) there may be just enough restriction to the cooling air flow at the times you specified to trip the protection. This may get worse over time as the AVR's feet settle into the carpet/pad a bit.

To improve cooling air flow raise the 875 an inch or two. Four 1"-2" thick wooden blocks about the same size as the AVR's feet should do. (Can even steal from a small child :D :D )

If you determine it is heat related, to improve air flow more than just from the feet extensions described above, try adding a relatively quite laptop computer cooling pad under the AVR/feet extensions.

Good Luck,
XEagleDriver
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Jedi
MidnightSensi said:
I remember a thread on here a while saying that we would see an increase in solder failures in these upcoming years because of the environmental regulations imposed regarding typical solder.

Anyone remember anything like that?
Click to expand...
Yes, and I raised the issue first.

This is all the fault of the EEC and RoHS compliance. I knew this would be the result. Back In WW 1 the British MOD did a research study into solder failures in military radio communication gear. The result was to add a little lead to stop the solder sprouting whiskers and causing shorts. It also improves the flow characteristics of the solder.

I have tried soldering with lead free solder and it is terrible stuff. You get bad joints even if you are careful.

The only alternative is to get rid of this daft RoHS BS, or use pure silver solder. High end gear now uses pure silver solder, because of this problem. However pure silver solder is not going to appear at the receiver price points.

The problems with the solder can show up any time, but grow exponentially about two years after the date of manufacture.
 
S

subhash

Enthusiast
XEagleDriver said:
If the floor is carpet (hard to tell from the picture) there may be just enough restriction to the cooling air flow at the times you specified to trip the protection. This may get worse over time as the AVR's feet settle into the carpet/pad a bit.

To improve cooling air flow raise the 875 an inch or two. Four 1"-2" thick wooden blocks about the same size as the AVR's feet should do. (Can even steal from a small child :D :D )

If you determine it is heat related, to improve air flow more than just from the feet extensions described above, try adding a relatively quite laptop computer cooling pad under the AVR/feet extensions.

Good Luck,
XEagleDriver
Click to expand...
yes the floor is carpeted
 
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