Oooopsie... (Now, I don't care who you are. This is funny)

[markw]

A group of Somali pirates has been captured after attacking a French navy ship by mistake, apparently thinking it was a harmless cargo vessel. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/8294858.stm)

Seriously, I don't understand the last sentence : "Although the international naval forces have stepped up patrols in the Gulf of Aden this year, relatively few of the pirates detained have faced trial because of the legal complexities involved."

So, why not just sink 'em?

[CraigV]

Because that would add to the stigma the Americans are bullies.

Here in Minnesota, we have a large population of Somalian’s, and it has recently come to light that there have been Somali nationals in the Twin Cities area recruiting young Somali men to go back & fight in the civil war they are currently in. Lots of news coverage & some arrests, and the president of Somalia was even here to address the issue in person.

Frankly, I don’t get why we can let him, The President of Iran & Kaddafi on American sol and not take them out while we have the chance. They’ve already been brain-washed to hate Americans and people of other Western nations, so why not live up to the hype?

[Jeepers]

Frankly, I don’t get why we can let him, The President of Iran & Kaddafi on American sol and not take them out while we have the chance.

Any other intelligent suggestion ? Come on Craig, be serious.

[markw]

Uh, Craig... this was a French ship, not an American one.

[JerryLove]

If this has recently happened, then it has happened again.

I suppose I understand the legal difficulties in actually prosecuting these people. What's annoying is that they even gave them back their boats last time.

There's just way too much politics involved.

[JerryLove]

Frankly, I don’t get why we can let him, Given that the Somali rebels are part of AlQuieda, I'll disagree with your suggestion to hand them recruits with US passports.

I'll also make a general stand that morality isn't dependant on what side you are on: that terrorists don't become "freedom fighters" just because you dislike who they are terrorizing.

The President of Iran & Kaddafi on American sol and not take them out while we have the chance. Are you seriously asking that question? There are so many things wrong with it, I would be challenged as to where to begin.

They’ve already been brain-washed to hate Americans and people of other Western nations, so why not live up to the hype? Your question cannot be answered because it is based on a false belief.

Some Americans, such as yourself, have been brainwashed to believe that Iranians (as an example) hate Americans and people of other western nations.

"What's striking to me is that the - you get a different kind of nuance by doing focus groups because in the poll you just get a lot of, mostly a lot of negativity, except toward the American people. There actually 51 percent of Iranians say they like American people and that comes through when you meet them. " - http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=89683583

[CraigV]

Any other intelligent suggestion ? Come on Craig, be serious.

I’m completely serious. These so called “leaders” are doing everything they can to make their people believe all westerners, especially the US are their sworn, holy enemies and need to be eliminated. Why not nip it in the bud? I for one would have no trouble pulling the trigger.

Uh, Craig... this was a French ship, not an American one.

They have also pirated many American ships. Remember the hostage situation not too long ago?

[lsiberian]

Because that would add to the stigma the Americans are bullies.

Here in Minnesota, we have a large population of Somalian’s, and it has recently come to light that there have been Somali nationals in the Twin Cities area recruiting young Somali men to go back & fight in the civil war they are currently in. Lots of news coverage & some arrests, and the president of Somalia was even here to address the issue in person.

Frankly, I don’t get why we can let him, The President of Iran & Kaddafi on American sol and not take them out while we have the chance. They’ve already been brain-washed to hate Americans and people of other Western nations, so why not live up to the hype?

Not sure what Iranians or Africans you hang around, but you my friend have the wrong idea about there view of us. Every Arab, Persian, and African I've met has great respect for this nation more than many Americans do. We aren't getting their idiots for the most part. I have had professors from those areas that were true geniuses in their field. Let's not perpetuate false ideas and media driven viewpoints. The mistreatment of immigrants needs to stop. I've had Saudi friends held in jail for no real reason at all.

[JerryLove]

I’m completely serious. These so called “leaders” are doing everything they can to make their people believe all westerners, especially the US are their sworn, holy enemies and need to be eliminated. Why not nip it in the bud? I for one would have no trouble pulling the trigger. You may not want to admit a desire to murder on an open discussion board.

Of course your premise is also false. Kadaffi disavowed terrorism, turned over all of his nuclear work, paid the suit for the terrorism deaths from the 80s, and has been trying to normalize relations with the US.

Iran's leader (don't want to look up the spelling) certainly takes issue with American politics. I can understand why he would. I'm not condoning his rhetoric or behavior, but your characterization is simply not true. He has never said anything resembling "all Americans are your sworn enemies", and the majority of Iranians like Americans... just not American global politics.

Then again, there are a lot of Americans who have issue with American global politics.

[markw]

I didn't post this to start up a political war. I just thought pirates attacking a navel vessel was funny.

I still do. ..and I still feel that they should be sunk without repercussions during the commission of piracy if the target vessel is so equipped and inclined.

[CraigV]

Not sure what Iranians or Africans you hang around, but you my friend have the wrong idea about there view of us. Every Arab, Persian, and African I've met has great respect for this nation more than many Americans do. We aren't getting their idiots for the most part. I have had professors from those areas that were true geniuses in their field. Let's not perpetuate false ideas and media driven viewpoints. The mistreatment of immigrants needs to stop. I've had Saudi friends held in jail for no real reason at all.

I too have met & worked with people from the region. Most of them were very amiable & friendly. One was a young man going to college in the US. Really good guy seemed to have his act together, until we got on the subject of Jewish people. He had no issue telling me they should all be killed.

Speaking more to the Somali’s, their population & presence is well known in the T.C area of Minnesota. Typically, they are loud, rude, refuse to learn English, want everyone to bow to their every whim & wish, and are self important to a fault. Now before everyone get’s the wrong idea – I am not saying this from a racist perspective. I am friends with many people of many different races. Also, I thought I was in the minority with these feelings, but the more people I talk to, the more I find that many, many people feel the same way. It’s to the point that black people in the area don’t want to be referred to as “African American” because they don’t want to be associated with the Somalians. There is more Somali on Somali violence and gang issues than with any other groups in the area. Seems like they left Somalia to get away from the fighting, only to bring it to our cities (while standing with their hands out demanding state aid). When the violence crops up, the Somali community “leaders” are quick to blame the police for not doing their job, while ignoring the real issue – it’s their own people fighting with each other. Say what you will, but if you don’t live here, you really can’t understand what it’s like.

My view is unique to this area because of the dense population of these people. We also have a large community of Hmong people, many of whom I also know & have worked with. Each group has their exceptions, but I find these people to be very humble, hard working, ethical, amiable and friendly. I enjoy their company and finding out about their culture and heritage.

[CraigV]

I didn't post this to start up a political war. I just thought pirates attacking a navel vessel was funny.

I still do. ..and I still feel that they should be sunk without repercussions during the commission of piracy if the target vessel is so equipped and inclined.

I agree, it is comical, and yes, they should have been sent to Davy Jones locker. However, the politics of the larger issue cannot be ignored. These people live in a country with little government and no laws. They have killed innocent people, and have ransomed the companies we all deal with and buy from to the tune of multiple billions of dollars. They have to make up those losses somehow, right?

[Jeepers]

I didn't post this to start up a political war. I just thought pirates attacking a navel vessel was funny.

I still do. ..and I still feel that they should be sunk without repercussions during the commission of piracy if the target vessel is so equipped and inclined.

Yes and I agree with this.

[JerryLove]

I still do. ..and I still feel that they should be sunk without repercussions during the commission of piracy if the target vessel is so equipped and inclined. Agreed. Once fired upon, I have no problem with a Naval vessel (millitary or otherwise) simply sinking their attacker and moving on.

[Jeepers]

My view is unique to this area because of the dense population of these people. We also have a large community of Hmong people, many of whom I also know & have worked with. Each group has their exceptions, but I find these people to be very humble, hard working, ethical, amiable and friendly. I enjoy their company and finding out about their culture and heritage.

Actually the same applies in Europe where in general there are hardly any problems (not saying there are none) with Budhists or people with similar religions whereby, as you mentioned, these people are friendly and hard working.
However there are a lot more issues with Muslims, not saying this is valid to all Muslims but the last years you can definitely see more radical 'elements' in this community.

[GO-NAD!]

A group of Somali pirates has been captured after attacking a French navy ship by mistake, apparently thinking it was a harmless cargo vessel. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/8294858.stm)

Seriously, I don't understand the last sentence : "Although the international naval forces have stepped up patrols in the Gulf of Aden this year, relatively few of the pirates detained have faced trial because of the legal complexities involved."

So, why not just sink 'em?

Well, if they were "captured", it implies that the pirates, in the interest of self-preservation I suppose, surrendered. If that's the case, it would be a violation of international law to simply "sink 'em". An act of piracy, if you will...

[jamie2112]

Yeah, I like turtles...........

[GO-NAD!]

Frankly, I don’t get why we can let him, The President of Iran & Kaddafi on American sol and not take them out while we have the chance.

I'm prettttyyy sure that would create more problems than it would solve.

I do have a huge problem with Kaddafi though. His secret service dude who was convicted of blowing up that Pan Am jet certainly didn't do it on his own initiative. That has to be the world's largest instance of "the elephant in the room" that nobody speaks about....

[JerryLove]

I do have a huge problem with Kaddafi though. His secret service dude who was convicted of blowing up that Pan Am jet certainly didn't do it on his own initiative. That has to be the world's largest instance of "the elephant in the room" that nobody speaks about.... On the other hand, we sanctioned him and demanded he stop his weapons program, reimburse the victim's families, and disavow terrorism.

Since then, he has stopped his weapons program (handed everything related to it over), and paid the families, and disavowed terrorism.

If we punish people who do what we tell them to do, how will that encourage others to do what we tell them? It's like punishing a child for being bad, and then continuing to be mad at him. Wasn't that the point of the punishment?

[GO-NAD!]

On the other hand, we sanctioned him and demanded he stop his weapons program, reimburse the victim's families, and disavow terrorism.

Since then, he has stopped his weapons program (handed everything related to it over), and paid the families, and disavowed terrorism.

If we punish people who do what we tell them to do, how will that encourage others to do what we tell them? It's like punishing a child for being bad, and then continuing to be mad at him. Wasn't that the point of the punishment?

The problem is, he wasn't "punished" per se. It was the poor shmuck he sent to do the job who went to jail. Kaddafi may have conformed with the demands you have listed, but he has not been personally punisheded for the murder of hundreds of people in that aircraft. But then again, that number is probably only a drop in the bucket, if you consider the number of his own people he's ordered killed.

Don't get me wrong; I'm not advocating his assassination. If we killed every world leader who should be convicted of murder, the vast majority of the world's nations would be leaderless. I'm just making the point that he's a despicable excuse for a human being.

[gmichael]

A group of Somali pirates has been captured after attacking a French navy ship by mistake, apparently thinking it was a harmless cargo vessel. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/8294858.stm)

Seriously, I don't understand the last sentence : "Although the international naval forces have stepped up patrols in the Gulf of Aden this year, relatively few of the pirates detained have faced trial because of the legal complexities involved."

So, why not just sink 'em?

Funy stuff Mark. I'm sure the navy crewmen thought that this would be a good chance to get some target practice in, but that darn Captn probably thought it was a bad idea.:rolleyes:

[JerryLove]

The problem is, he wasn't "punished" per se. It was the poor shmuck he sent to do the job who went to jail. Kaddafi may have conformed with the demands you have listed, but he has not been personally punisheded for the murder of hundreds of people in that aircraft. But then again, that number is probably only a drop in the bucket, if you consider the number of his own people he's ordered killed. Welcome to the world of non-person entities.

Kaddafi is not indited in any murders that I am aware of... and there is no precedent for heads-of-state being punished for supporting terrorism. Look at the US support of the Mujahadeen terrorists in the 1980s, or the Contra Terrorists. The only criminal investigation there was that the PotUS was aiding drug runners to finance the weapons against a law passed by congress.

Don't get me wrong; I'm not advocating his assassination. If we killed every world leader who should be convicted of murder, the vast majority of the world's nations would be leaderless. I'm just making the point that he's a despicable excuse for a human being. I'm not going to defend him as a person. I agree with you. But I think that the opportunity to reasonably attempt a criminal case for state terrorism by Libya has long passed.

[mtrycrafts]

Because that would add to the stigma the Americans are bullies.

...?

In this case it would be French bullies;):D

[mtrycrafts]

I didn't post this to start up a political war. I just thought pirates attacking a navel vessel was funny.

I still do. ..and I still feel that they should be sunk without repercussions during the commission of piracy if the target vessel is so equipped and inclined.

Yes, it was interesting and funny but it was at night, no? 300 miles out in the darkness?
Maybe, in the future, perhaps, pirates will be treated differently out there;):D

[CraigV]

In this case it would be French bullies;):D

Is there such a thing?

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m164/cravnsn/french.jpg

[GO-NAD!]

Welcome to the world of non-person entities.

Kaddafi is not indited in any murders that I am aware of... and there is no precedent for heads-of-state being punished for supporting terrorism. Look at the US support of the Mujahadeen terrorists in the 1980s, or the Contra Terrorists. The only criminal investigation there was that the PotUS was aiding drug runners to finance the weapons against a law passed by congress.

I'm not going to defend him as a person. I agree with you. But I think that the opportunity to reasonably attempt a criminal case for state terrorism by Libya has long passed.


Oh, I'm fully aware of the vagaries of realpolitik. I wasn't suggesting that he be arrested and put on trial. That just isn't a realistic proposition. Besides, the guy is barking mad - he'd only be found not guilty due to insanity.:rolleyes:

[GO-NAD!]

Is there such a thing?

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m164/cravnsn/french.jpg

Any more ethnic, racial, linguistic or religious bridges you care to burn?

[CraigV]

Any more ethnic, racial, linguistic or religious bridges you care to burn?

Lighten up man, it was a joke :rolleyes:

[GO-NAD!]

Lighten up man, it was a joke :rolleyes:

Okie-Dokie!

[Xargos]

Lighten up man, it was a joke :rolleyes:

Even with my French heritage I definitely found it amusing.

[GO-NAD!]

Even with my French heritage I definitely found it amusing.

I obviously should've added a smilie, or two, to my question. It was meant more in jest, than with any degree of seriousness. In other words, I was only joking as well! I only asked, because CraigV has thrown a lot of mud around in this thread. It's certainly not something that I'll lose sleep over! :rolleyes: Hey, it's the Steam Vent! We can state or ask pretty much whatever we want!

I'm from all English stock, but my wife's family is all French (Quebec & Acadian) - most of whom speak it as their first language, or fluently as a second language. They don't have any particular regard for France, so they probably wouldn't be bothered by it either.:D

[CraigV]

I obviously should've added a smilie, or two, to my question. It was meant more in jest, than with any degree of seriousness. In other words, I was only joking as well! I only asked, because CraigV has thrown a lot of mud around in this thread. It's certainly not something that I'll lose sleep over! :rolleyes: Hey, it's the Steam Vent! We can state or ask pretty much whatever we want!

I'm from all English stock, but my wife's family is all French (Quebec & Acadian) - most of whom speak it as their first language, or fluently as a second language. They don't have any particular regard for France, so they probably wouldn't be bothered by it either.:D

Hey, it’s Friday, the sun is shining, it’s all good – Se la vie, sink the Somali…whatever :D:cool:

[GO-NAD!]

Hey, it’s Friday, the sun is shining, it’s all good – Se la vie, sink the Somali…whatever :D:cool:

Yes, it's Friday! Kinda cloudy here though. But, it's Thanksgiving weekend - whoo - hoo! For anybody who didn't know, second Monday in October is Thanksgiving day in Canada.

[Davemcc]

A group of Somali pirates has been captured after attacking a French navy ship by mistake, apparently thinking it was a harmless cargo vessel. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/8294858.stm)

Seriously, I don't understand the last sentence : "Although the international naval forces have stepped up patrols in the Gulf of Aden this year, relatively few of the pirates detained have faced trial because of the legal complexities involved."

So, why not just sink 'em?

http://www.asil.org/insights090206.cfm