Center Vs. Sub Vs. Surround - what should I replace?

[mapexvenus]

Hi All,

I have the following set up

1. Pioneer - 550W 5.1-Ch VSX-519V-K receiver
2. Polk Audio RTI A1 Bookshelf Speakers
3. Onkyo SKC-330C Center (came with my old Onkyo that I am replacing)
4. Onkyo SKF-330F Surrounds (came with my old Onkyo that I am replacing)
5. Sony - 10" 100-Watt Powered Subwoofer SAW2500


I intend to replace the Onkyo surrounds & center, and the Sony Sub and this question pertains to just that.

If I want the best setup for music, with movies as a close second (no games), then what should I replace first? Should I replace the center, sub, or surrounds? I have been eyeing the Polk Audio - 5-1/4" Center-Channel Speaker CS10 , which is available on Amazon for $119.

Unfortunately I can't replace all speakers at the same time.

Any ideas?

Thanks in advance!

[adwilk]

Whats your total budget?

For ME, I would upgrade my sub, but its also the most expensive component to replace. The center channel would be a really close second. The surrounds would definitely be the last.

The amount of cash you're looking to spend will be the biggest decider. If you can't afford a nice sub, then the center is the obvious choice.

[agarwalro]

+1 for what adwilk said.

Since it seems like you are planning to replace everything in stages, I think you should look into the most long lasting components first or the component from with the change will be most apparant. For the former, a good sub can work with any set of speakers and can potentially be used until its silicone decays from old age (a very very very long time :)). For the latter, a good pair of bookshelf speakers to replace the mains.

In music, what is your most listened genres? It might help making a speaker recommendation.

[mapexvenus]

Thanks for the early responses!

Yes, I am looking to replace components in stages since I don't want to blow up a whole lot of money at once.

My total budget for the next speaker replacement is around $200.

The genre of music that I listen to the most is progressive rock, and classic rock. I also listen to contemporary jazz quite a bit.

What did you think of the Polk Center that I mentioned in my first post?

[landonspop]

$200.00 does not get a great sub.
If you plan to keep the bookshelf speakers, the center channel you chose would be a good match and fits your budget.

I am going through same scenario except I only need front L/R/C.

What I would do is this, picture the complete set the way I would want it in the end and make sure each purchase led me there.

[mapexvenus]

$200.00 does not get a great sub.
If you plan to keep the bookshelf speakers, the center channel you chose would be a good match and fits your budget.

I am going through same scenario except I only need front L/R/C.

What I would do is this, picture the complete set the way I would want it in the end and make sure each purchase led me there.

If you are going to upgrade the fronts, decide on what they are going to be and get the center that matches them.

I don't intend to replace the front - I just got them a few days ago :) and they are very good speaker. I will eventually replace then when I can buy a very good pair of floors.

[adwilk]

For your budget, I'd go ahead and get the center speaker. This will do nothing for you as far as music goes, but Its a good price and will ensure that you have a matching LCR setup. Save some more cash, and then look at a sub. I just dont think 200 bucks is worth your time for a sub at the moment. Double that, and then you could be in business...

[lsiberian]

Thanks for the early responses!

Yes, I am looking to replace components in stages since I don't want to blow up a whole lot of money at once.

My total budget for the next speaker replacement is around $200.

The genre of music that I listen to the most is progressive rock, and classic rock. I also listen to contemporary jazz quite a bit.

What did you think of the Polk Center that I mentioned in my first post?

Do that.

Your center is where the dialogue comes from. Can you buy a Single RTI1 ? If so that would be the best center.

A Dayton sub would probably be an upgrade FYI. Most folks here underrate it due to their budgets. It's possible to build a totally satisfactory home theater system for less than 500. In fact few of my components exceeded 100 dollars in cost.

[mapexvenus]

For your budget, I'd go ahead and get the center speaker. This will do nothing for you as far as music goes, but Its a good price and will ensure that you have a matching LCR setup. Save some more cash, and then look at a sub. I just dont think 200 bucks is worth your time for a sub at the moment. Double that, and then you could be in business...

If the center is not going to do anything for me, then should I exchange the $99 Sub I have (I still within the 30 day period) and get something like the Polk Audio - 10" 100W Powered Subwoofer fo $199 provided it makes a reasonable difference? Not saying that the sub will be my long-term sub. I'll probably replace it in 8 months or so when I can afford a $400+ sub.

[j_garcia]

If the center is not going to do anything for me, then should I exchange the $99 Sub I have (I still within the 30 day period) and get something like the Polk Audio - 10" 100W Powered Subwoofer fo $199 provided it makes a reasonable difference? Not saying that the sub will be my long-term sub. I'll probably replace it in 8 months or so when I can afford a $400+ sub.

That would kind of be like buying the same sub only paying twice as much for it. Polk isn't where you should be looking for a sub. For an inexpensive interim sub, get a Sub100 or Sub120 from www.partsexpress.com For $229 you could get the Dayton Elite 10" sub which was designed by Dr. Hsu of HSU Research.

[pzaur]

Personally, I'd upgrade the center first and subwoofer second. Drivers are changed over time and you could run into the issue of a poorly matched center with the fronts.

-pat

[lsiberian]

If the center is not going to do anything for me, then should I exchange the $99 Sub I have (I still within the 30 day period) and get something like the Polk Audio - 10" 100W Powered Subwoofer fo $199 provided it makes a reasonable difference? Not saying that the sub will be my long-term sub. I'll probably replace it in 8 months or so when I can afford a $400+ sub.

Exchange your sub for sure Dayton has better budget subs IMO. But don't do the polk. They aren't that great.

[pzaur]

Not saying that the sub will be my long-term sub. I'll probably replace it in 8 months or so when I can afford a $400+ sub.

What you're suggesting is a total waste of money. If you're already planning on upgrading the sub to one more expensive than the suggestions why are you entertaining the idea of doing it twice?

Replace the center channel.
As has been stated before, the center channel is an integral part of TV and movie broadcasts. There is a real chance that you won't find a decent timbre match if you wait and constantly put it off.
I don't use my center for music but the center speaker also doesn't sound different than the rest when I watch TV or a movie.

-pat

[mapexvenus]

What you're suggesting is a total waste of money. If you're already planning on upgrading the sub to one more expensive than the suggestions why are you entertaining the idea of doing it twice?

Replace the center channel.
As has been stated before, the center channel is an integral part of TV and movie broadcasts. There is a real chance that you won't find a decent timbre match if you wait and constantly put it off.
I don't use my center for music but the center speaker also doesn't sound different than the rest when I watch TV or a movie.

-pat

Will do - getting that Polk Center, today!

I understand that the Sub idea was silly. I think I'll just wait and buy a better sub for Christmas.

[fredk]

Here (http://www.creativesound.ca/details.php?model=QUARTET10) is another possibility for a good sub. Its a kit so you will need a few basic tools, but it offers very good value.

Can you return that sub for a refund. If you or maybe exchange it for the matching center, that will get you to a better sub $100 faster.

[gqmagic]

You said listening to music is important to you , but most of the replies are aimed at your surround setup. (get a center, get a sub)

Do you like to listen to music in 2 channel source direct?

If so i'd recommend getting 3 center channels (LCR) Good centers sound fantastic full range and if you get them used you can get good ones for about $300 a piece.

On stands the left and right will sound great for music and with a good sub you won't need floor standers for you surround setup.

They look better than floor standers too, imo.

[adwilk]

You said listening to music is important to you , but most of the replies are aimed at your surround setup. (get a center, get a sub)

Do you like to listen to music in 2 channel source direct?

If so i'd recommend getting 3 center channels (LCR) Good centers sound fantastic full range and if you get them used you can get good ones for about $300 a piece.

On stands the left and right will sound great for music and with a good sub you won't need floor standers for you surround setup.

They look better than floor standers too, imo.

Thats way over his budget. Why would 2 channel source direct warrant buying 3 center channels?

[gqmagic]

Thats way over his budget. Why would 2 channel source direct warrant buying 3 center channels?

Source direct doesn't have anything to do with what speakers really, except it only use the left and right speakers, which I find center channels work great.

[adwilk]

Source direct doesn't have anything to do with what speakers really, except it only use the left and right speakers, which I find center channels work great.

I understand that but "2" channel and "3" speakers.......

[adwilk]

You also mentioned a "good sub"... Most direct modes eliminate the sub...

I promise I'm not bustin your chops, I'm just curious about your post. It confused me a bit. Just looking for clarification.

[gqmagic]

I understand that but "2" channel and "3" speakers.......

3 centers for left, right and center so they timbre match.

There's another thread somewhere where the guy is wondering whats wrong with the sound because he's using a mis-matched center.

[fredk]

3 towers or bookshelves would be more apropriate. Centers are always a compromise (unless they are an identical tower or bookshelf).

[gqmagic]

3 towers or bookshelves would be more apropriate. Centers are always a compromise (unless they are an identical tower or bookshelf).

Well I guess it would depend on the centers now would it not:D

[pzaur]

Well I guess it would depend on the centers now would it not:D

Many centers don't have the range to be run without a sub. What centers are you suggesting? They may also have specific design differences than a L/R speaker which can affect how they are supposed to mounted/displayed (i.e. vertical vs. horizontal setup - Ascend Acoustics does this).

-pat

[adwilk]

3 centers for left, right and center so they timbre match.

There's another thread somewhere where the guy is wondering whats wrong with the sound because he's using a mis-matched center.

I get all that... you're telling the guy to get a setup so he can listen to 2 channel stuff.. 2 channels.. you then tell him to get 3 speakers.

OP, get A center channel. 1

[gqmagic]

I get all that... you're telling the guy to get a setup so he can listen to 2 channel stuff.. 2 channels.. you then tell him to get 3 speakers.

OP, get A center channel. 1

I'll go slower for you:D

Matching Left Speaker + Right Speaker + Center Speaker = 3 speakers:D:D:D

[adwilk]

I'll go slower for you:D

Matching Left Speaker + Right Speaker + Center Speaker = 3 speakers:D:D:D

Don't slow down on my account.

But why the heck does he need three speakers to listen to two channels?

I like movies in 5.1... I'll look into buying 13 speakers? Got it?

[ChunkyDark]

Don't buy the cs10, you want to get the csi a4 or a6 because those are tuned to match your set (or another rti a1 if you can find a single). The surrounds don't matter as much but I'd stay within the same series if you can help it.
http://www.polkaudio.com/homeaudio/rtia/

There are a couple on ebay for ~150. Polk also has a great ebay store for their refrubs.

I also have a dayton sub 120. Personally it's plenty of sub for me and I don't plan on upgrading until it breaks (hopefully not soon). I'm not saying the others are wrong, it's just important to note that for some of us 150$ sub is enough and not just a stepping stone.

[mapexvenus]

Update: I got my Polk center channel delivered yesterday and I can tell the really impressive difference it is making to the HT experience. I am now going to keep this setup for a while and then upgrade to a much better sub in a few months (or earlier depending on how long I can hold out..). I haven't replaced the old Onkyo surrounds that I have yet, but that is probably a $100 buy at best buy if I want to replace them with entry-level polks.

[jostenmeat]

Yes on the sub upgrade, but I would consider just keeping the rears if the only other option is entry Polks. I honestly think that Onkyo HTIB speakers are superior to Polk's bottom-of-the-line, which are some of the worst speakers I've ever heard. Save the $100. If you are stepping up from the bottom-of-the-line to Rti, that is a different story.

[Davemcc]

I don't think the Sony sub is near as bad as everybody is making it out to be. It's not an earth shaking ground pounder like some of the subs talked about in here but you sure get your money's worth for $99. Be patient, decide what sub you would really, really like to have as your final sub and save until you can have that ultimate sub.

For the record, I went from a Sony SA-WM250 to an SVS PB12-Plus. Sure, it was a night and day difference but that little Sony is still performing admirably at my buddy's house.

[allargon]

I don't think the Sony sub is near as bad as everybody is making it out to be. It's not an earth shaking ground pounder like some of the subs talked about in here but you sure get your money's worth for $99. Be patient, decide what sub you would really, really like to have as your final sub and save until you can have that ultimate sub.

For the record, I went from a Sony SA-WM250 to an SVS PB12-Plus. Sure, it was a night and day difference but that little Sony is still performing admirably at my buddy's house.

I do agree that the OP should take his/her time w/ the sub replacement. But no way will I defend a Sony sub or any other Sony audio equipment.

I've got Sony audio equipment in my bedroom that screams, "Replace me!"

The OP should check out WiMax's Kappa build thread!

[lsiberian]

Don't buy the cs10, you want to get the csi a4 or a6 because those are tuned to match your set (or another rti a1 if you can find a single). The surrounds don't matter as much but I'd stay within the same series if you can help it.
http://www.polkaudio.com/homeaudio/rtia/

There are a couple on ebay for ~150. Polk also has a great ebay store for their refrubs.

I also have a dayton sub 120. Personally it's plenty of sub for me and I don't plan on upgrading until it breaks (hopefully not soon). I'm not saying the others are wrong, it's just important to note that for some of us 150$ sub is enough and not just a stepping stone.

We still got some work to do on you. :D We'll get the upgrade bug to bite.:)

[ChunkyDark]

We still got some work to do on you. :D We'll get the upgrade bug to bite.:)

Heck I still have to finish it!
Blu-ray player (htpc blu-ray is dead to me!)
logitech remote
build av cabinet
weave more wall treatments (ok kidding i don't have a loom...yet)

BTW, congrats on getting married! Hope youe'r enjoying/enjoyed your honeymoon.

[mapexvenus]

Don't buy the cs10, you want to get the csi a4 or a6 because those are tuned to match your set (or another rti a1 if you can find a single). The surrounds don't matter as much but I'd stay within the same series if you can help it.
http://www.polkaudio.com/homeaudio/rtia/

There are a couple on ebay for ~150. Polk also has a great ebay store for their refrubs.

I also have a dayton sub 120. Personally it's plenty of sub for me and I don't plan on upgrading until it breaks (hopefully not soon). I'm not saying the others are wrong, it's just important to note that for some of us 150$ sub is enough and not just a stepping stone.
Too late, I already bought the CS10. I didn't think about staying with the series at the time that I made the purchase, but it did strike mind later. I like the CS10, and am tempted to exchange it and pay the roughly $150 (add another $20 for shipping to send the CS10 back) difference to get the CSI A4, but am I really losing a lot by not matching?

[ChunkyDark]

I haven't heard them side by side only a4 and a6 so couldn't say how different they are.
Here are the tech specs:

CSI a4
Midrange 2 - 5-1/4" Diameter (13.34cm)
Polymer Composite Dynamic Balance with rubber surround
Tweeter 1 - 1" Diameter (2.54cm)
Silk Polymer Dome Tweeter
Overall Frequency Response 55Hz-27kHz

cs10
Midrange 2 - 5-1/4" Diameter (13.34cm)
Bi-Laminate Organic Fiber cone
Tweeter 1 - 1" Diameter (2.54cm)
Silk Dome Dynamic Balance
Overall Frequency Response 53-25KHz