Speakers + subwoofer connections [Archive] - Audioholics Home Theater Forums

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sokukodo

06-02-2003, 07:39 PM

Hi guys, a newbie here ... I'm in the process of ordering a new computer and I'm going with a 2.1 set-up. This is what I'm getting:
Apple Dual processor 1.42 Ghz Powermac, 2 Ghz of RAM, a 20" LCD Apple Cinema display, an M-audio Revolution 7.1 PCI sound card, Radeon 9700 Pro Video card ... my question has to do with speaker set-up/connection: a set of Dynaudio BM6A studio monitors (self-powered 200W, 100W to each driver) ans a Hsu VTF-3 subwoofer (self-powered, 250 W); are the monitors wired together, THEN connected to the sound card, or run separately to the sound card, or connected together and run through the subwoofer? As is probably obvious, I'm confused.

Clint DeBoer

06-03-2003, 11:06 AM

[ducks potential flame] This year I moved my entire operation from Mac to PC, got a faster computer and was able to re-purchase all of my software for WinXP. All for LESS than it cost for the Mac upgrade... just food for thought. Email me if you want to know more (from a Mac user of over 11 years.)

As to your question... Take the analogue line output from the card to your subwoofer line ins. Use the sub's crossover and take the LINE LEVEL outputs from the sub to your powered monitors.

Do not use any of the "speaker level" inputs or outputs.

06-03-2003, 12:06 PM

I'm going to take a slightly different approach.

I'd recommend getting a Dolby Digital/DTS HT processor and running a digital connection with a Toslink optical cable from the M-Audio soundcard to the processor. *This optical connection will isolate the excessive RF in the PC from getting into the sound system and your speakers will thank you.

By the way, I'm very interested in hearing your perspectives on the Dynaudio BM6A active powered monitors.

Then from the processor, I'd run RCA analog cables to each of the speakers. *This way you can use the digital bass management in the processor to direct the bass to the HSU VTF-3. *Each active speaker gets a single input cable.

For a processor, you can use one of the following:
1) <$130 Klipsch processor (forgot model number)
2) <$200 Technics SH-500D DD/DTS (used on ebay)
3) <$1000 Outlaw 950 prepro
4) <$1500 Rotel 1066 prepro

sokukodo

06-03-2003, 08:54 PM

Thanks guys ...
Hawke: I work with PCs at work, Mac by night  <img src="http://www.audioholics.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'> ... you'll have to pry my cold dead fingers off my Mac! Sure, it's a little pricier (ok ok, a LOT pricier), but I've found that it's worth every penny! With its unix underpinings, Jaguar OS X is rock stable. Having said that, I have a lot of PC friends that swear by XP (we get into some heated debates!).

Bruce: Thanks for the tip ... the M-Audio Revolution 7.1 doesn't have a Toslink output, though their Delta DIO 2496 does (http://www.m-audio.com/products/m-audio/dio2496.php) ... they have also just come out with a Firewire device (no PCI card), but haven't released the price (it LOOKS expensive); just wondering about the merits of PCI/USB/Firewire ... the USB version of the Rev. 7.1 PCI is the Sonica Theater external box: plug in the speakers, then plug the box into the USB (it has a bass management feature)
The Delta DIO 2496, however is stereo only (no bass management feature (does that mean the third speaker, the sub, won't work?) Does the DTS processor do bass management?

In studio monitors, I had a sort list of four brands: Swans T200a, Tannoy 800a, Mackie HR624, and Dynaudio BM6A ... this list was pared down to the Mackie and the Dynaudio speakers. They're all good speakers, but after reading an excellent review in ProRec.com (http://www.prorec.com/prorec/articles.nsf/articles/0B7FAE7ED3205D3C86256AE100044F41), decided on the Dynaudio.
The weakest link in the whole set up seems to be the sound card issue. My time will be spent on about 50/50 music/DVD ... before I plunk down close to 8 grand on the whole thing, I just want it to work!

06-03-2003, 09:09 PM

Does the M-Audio Revolution 7.1 *have a digital coax output, and/or does it come with a similiar external box like the USB version?

<table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">. . . the USB version of the Rev. 7.1 PCI is the Sonica Theater external box: plug in the speakers, then plug the box into the USB (it has a bass management feature)
</td></tr></table>
That sounds interesting, but USB can be problematic at times.

There are inexpensive conversion boxes (MIDIman is one source) that convert coax digital to optical Toslink as well.

The Delta DIO 2496 will not work for you, it doesn't do bass management and doesn't do DTS.

sokukodo

06-03-2003, 09:45 PM

Bruce, looking at the picture of the Revolution 7.1 PCI card (which, by the way, is MidiMan), I do see a digital out port (http://www.m-audio.com/products/consumer/revolution_page1.php); they also sell the Co2 coaxial/optical converter for $80 ( http://www.m-audio.com/products/m-audio/CO2.php); so, I'd run a line from digital out (coaxial) to the digital in on the converter, then run a line from optical "out" to the optical "in" on the Klipsch Promedia DD-5.1 decoder/preamp ( http://www.klipsch.com/mondial....ne=&1), (http://www.klipsch.com/mondial/index2.asp?path=/aragonelectronics/index.asp?frame=y&id=&line=&1),) then run the speakers to the decoder?
Whew! looks like I may have to forgo the Dynaudios for the mackies ($1699 per pair vs $898 per pair) ... hmm.  <img src="http://www.audioholics.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':O'>

06-03-2003, 11:37 PM

Forget about the Klipsch!!!!  Sorry about the confusion on my part.

After reading the manual, it appears you can run the speakers directly off of the PCI card itself.

It will require a male stereo mini-plug to dual female-RCA adapters, they have a picture and you can get them at Radio Shack. *That means you wouldn't need to purchase the Klipsch product at all. *The software also provides speaker setup and bass management, wow pretty nice.

sokukodo

06-04-2003, 07:11 PM

Oh, ok ... LOL, that was my original intention ... thanks for your imput! But is it advantageous to go "optical"?

06-04-2003, 07:47 PM

<table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"> But is it advantageous to go "optical"? </td></tr></table>
There is not simple answer to that question.

It would certainly eliminate any electrical path between the PC and the rest of audio system, which could have some benefit.

sokukodo

06-04-2003, 09:12 PM

I see ... well, i think I'll "keep it simple" and stick with just the card. Again, thanks for the info!

06-05-2003, 11:44 AM

hawke,

You're quick, first I see it, then I don't, re:; your message about direct connect of speakers to the PCI card. *<img src="http://www.audioholics.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'>

I'm guessing maybe you have used the M-audio PCI card, as the bass management capability isn't too clear. *They say you can select bass management based on an arbitrary size spec. but not an actual crossover frequency *They say Large, Medium, or Small for the size of the woofer/mid-bass driver in your front main speakers;
Large= 5" diameter woofer/mid-bass driver
Medium= 3-5" diameter woofer/mid-bass driver
Small= <3" diameter woofer/mid-bass driver
+ 2 additional categories;
Cube
Flat

Since I can't read the graphic in the PDF manual it's hard to tell what the parameter setups are in the window. *

As a note of interest, the Dynaudio BM6A have woofer/mid-bass drivers that are 6.5". *Since they will be set to Large, do you think any bass gets re-directed to the subwoofer?

I assume your recommendation for using the subwoofer's internal crossover in conjunction with the front main speakers is to give the user more control over this crossover frequency, right?

Depending on the size of the room, I still might opt for a coax digital connection to a standalone HT processor with bass management control for all of the 5.1 speakers. *This would provide the maximum control of all 5.1 speakers.

sokukodo

06-05-2003, 05:59 PM

I'm looking at the Revolution 7.1 set-up diagram on a web site right now, and on the left there is the front speaker size, and on the right side is the crossover frequency that can be dialed in. In the example shown, "speaker size" says "cube" and on the right side it has 80hz selected; on the bottom left beneath a picture of the set up one is choosing, there is a box that can be checked labelled "bass management".

06-05-2003, 06:39 PM

So for the Dynaudios I would assume you select Large and a crossover of 80Hz to the sub if that is possible.  Yes, and also I presume, click the bass management box.

sokukodo

06-05-2003, 06:50 PM

I just sent M-audio an e-mail asking if the crossover can be manually dialed in, or is the crossover automatically set by the choice of "large"; the Klipsch processor routes anything below 120hz to the sub; Dr Hsu recommends 80Hz. Incidentally, I think I may go with a set of Mackie HR624s: they're excellent speakers at roughly half the price of the Dynaudios, though, I must say, I'm really torn.

sokukodo

06-05-2003, 06:54 PM

Also, it just occurred to me that if I did not check the "bass management" box, could I just use the crossover control on the back of the Hsu sub?

06-05-2003, 07:58 PM

Yes, that's what hawke was talking about earlier, as long as the Hsu sub supports that type of connection.

M-audio card Front Main L&R out --> Hsu sub --> Hsu sub L&R high-pass out to L&R Mackie or Dynaudio active speakers.

mustang_steve

06-09-2003, 03:45 AM

Bruce!

Thank you for reminding me that I had a TOS link out on my PC's soundcard. Heh, now to get the toys to work with TOSlink.  <img src="http://www.audioholics.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>

06-09-2003, 12:52 PM

Steve,

That's great!   Let us know what you get and how it works.

Clint DeBoer

06-09-2003, 04:07 PM

<table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tr><td>Bruce : You're quick, first I see it, then I don't, re:; your message about direct connect of speakers to the PCI card. *<img src="http://www.audioholics.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'>
That's cause I re-read your post (and mine) and realized my first post wasn't exactly the same as what you had mentioned. <img src="http://www.audioholics.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>

sokukodo

06-10-2003, 07:42 AM

Talked to a recording engineer recently who advised me NOT to use studio monitors for home use ... I had been considering Mackies ... so ... I checked out a set of Sonus Fabers (concertino): wow! they sound stunning ... but now I need to get an amp ... the problem is, I want to use these in a 2.1 set-up with an M-audio sound card ... I'm assuming that I would run a coaxial cable out of Digital "out" from the sound card ... but I see that Denon, Yamaha, etc don't have digital "in"; does this mean that I'm going to have to get a D/A converter? (Although, I could "slum" it and get the Swans M200 active speakers for $299: I've read that they're really good speakers for the price ... but after hearing those Sonus Fabers ... hmm).

06-10-2003, 10:17 AM

<table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Talked to a recording engineer recently who advised me NOT to use studio monitors for home use ... I had been considering Mackies ... so ... I checked out a set of Sonus Fabers (concertino): wow! they sound stunning *</td></tr></table>

Can't say I agree with that opinion for the Dyns, especially if you will be listening in a near-field environment (less than 6 feet from the speakers).

I've heard a number of users say the Dynaudio BM6A actives are better than their Audience line brothern (Audience 52) for home use.

The Mackies I haven't listened to, so I can't comment. *Sonus Faber are really nice speakers, but are voiced differently, so be sure you try an extended listening audition before buying, if possible.

All receiver's have digital inputs (either coax or Toslink), otherwise they couldn't accept the input from a DVD player. *So maybe the input is labeled DVD player, but that's where you would plug in the coax digital output from the M-Audio PCI card.

Clint DeBoer

06-10-2003, 02:34 PM

<table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tr><td>sokukodo : Talked to a recording engineer recently who advised me NOT to use studio monitors for home use...
I am a recording engineer and I do not agree with this statement (as a general guideline). Keep in mind, however, that you still have to evaluate each studio monitor on its own merit. Also, you'll want to make sure you don't buy a pair of near-field monitors if you intend to sit farther back from your speakers.

But as a whole, studio monitors can be a great way to enjoy music and home threatre.

mustang_steve

06-30-2003, 05:54 AM

Only real reason to use optical out is if you have noise issues from your computer.  

On my PC, I found noise in the form of a weird "blipping" noise when I did things with the volume up high, like using my mouse's scroll wheel.

Sadly, my soundcard does not have an optical out, only coax, so I'm looking at using some double shielded interconnect cable I bought a while back and make my own cable.  Since the digital coax is apparently 75ohm, like it's analogue counterpart.

I did make a nice set of analog interconnects with that cable.....wait, did i just spell analog the british way above.....darn earl grey tea <img src="http://www.audioholics.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'>

well later all, I either need less tea or more rest  <img src="http://www.audioholics.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':laugh:'>