Advice for $4000 5.1 system for Yamaha RX-Z7

[skalathi]

Hello everyone. We're moving to a new house, and I am planning to put together a 5.1 system. I managed to snag a Yamaha RX-Z7 at a great price, and am looking for 5.1 speakers that are of the same caliber.

I am heavily leaning toward the Axiom Epic 80-600 5.1 system. But, I am very open to new suggestions. Things I am looking for are:

1. Keep speakers <$4000
2. Will be used for movies > music
3. The room they will be in has Brazilian cherry flooring and paneling. Speakers with a wood finish would be greatly preferred.
4. The room is 18 X 24 feet in size with 10 foot ceilings.
5. Would prefer the front speakers to be floorstanding; will probably biamp.

The Axiom Epic 80-600 5.1 system seems to fit the bill nicely, but I've been looking at the Boston Acoustics VS system as well. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

[John Bailey]

Sounds like you're going to have a great room. The M-80's will take a lot of power, so bi-amping is a good idea. It'll be above your budget, but you can get the Axiom's in a wood finish that sounds like it would go great in your room. Because you're going to have such good bass with that 600, you might want to go with the M-60's to go with your budget and get the wood finish.

Being in Naperville, you can check with Saturday Audio in Chicago for some great deals that would get you a lot for your money. I would suggest you check out Monitor Audio's. Their Silver series are great speakers and they come in wood finish.

Any way you go, I think you're going to have a great set up. With your budget, you'll get a lot of good advice from the forum.

John

[skalathi]

John, thanks for your insight. Once I recalculated the Axiom with the custom finish, the cost goes up significantly as you said. Suddenly, the Axioms no longer look like such a good deal :( Even the Axiom Epic 60-600 goes for about $4700 with a custom finish. I'm going to have take a careful look at Monitor Audio.

Any thoughts on the AV123 Rocket speakers? They look gorgeous, but don't know how they compare to the aforementioned speakers.

[fredk]

The M-80's will take a lot of power, so bi-amping is a good idea. Yes, the M80 can handle a LOT of power and play very loudly if you need it. Unless you are using two separate amps, Bi-amping will do nothing for you.

Axiom also offers a couple of 'premium' vinyl finsishes that are indistinguishable from the real thing unlsess you can compare the two directly from inches away (I did exactly that at their factory).

[FirstReflection]

I can certainly recommend Axiom's speakers for your room size and aesthetic concerns. The M60 towers may actually be a better choice for you. They are easier to drive, sound identical (except for max volume output) to the M80 towers and while your room is Large, it is not Massive and the M60 towers should be able to handle that room size just fine.

Basically, if you are using a dedicated amp, then the M80 Towers may be a better choice. But since you're powering them with a receiver, I would nudge you towards the M60 towers. Even though the Z7 is a flagship receiver, it doesn't have limitless power reserves and it will have tighter control over the slightly less demanding M60 towers ;)

The upgraded Vinyl finish is also a great suggestion! Doesn't have to be real wood to look great and it keeps the bottom line lower!

Finally, Axiom's subwoofers are expensive! I would suggest that you could save on the sub by purchasing from a different subwoofer manufacturer. SVSound or HSU, for example have subwoofer that I would easily put toe-to-toe with the big Axiom subs, but for lower prices that may help you stay within budget.

[Highbar]

Have you looked at the new finishes for the Ascend Sierra-1's? I know they aren't floor standers but they get incredible reviews and a 5.0 package (they don't really do subs) will only run you $2500 or so, they might even cut you a package deal. Here's a link to their forum post with pics of the new finished and the pre-order info, CLICK ME (http://forum.ascendacoustics.com/showthread.php?t=3963). As for a sub, Take a look at SVS (http://www.svsound.com/products-sub-box.cfm). A nice Ultra or PB12-Plus in Rosenut or Piano Black would be awesome.

[Swerd]

Hello everyone. We're moving to a new house, and I am planning to put together a 5.1 system. I managed to snag a Yamaha RX-Z7 at a great price, and am looking for 5.1 speakers that are of the same caliber.

I am heavily leaning toward the Axiom Epic 80-600 5.1 system. But, I am very open to new suggestions. Things I am looking for are:

1. Keep speakers <$4000
2. Will be used for movies > music
3. The room they will be in has Brazilian cherry flooring and paneling. Speakers with a wood finish would be greatly preferred.
4. The room is 18 X 24 feet in size with 10 foot ceilings.
5. Would prefer the front speakers to be floorstanding; will probably biamp.


I suggest you look into the the Salk SongTowers (http://www.salksound.com/songseries.shtml) and the center, rear channel speakers, and subwoofer also available with it.

They have received outstanding reviews here at AH and elsewhere:

http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/speakers/floorstanding/salk-songtower-qwt

http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/speakers/floorstanding/1500-2000-floor-shootout-2009

http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/0408/stalk_signature_songtower.htm

http://www.sonicflare.com/archives/salk-signature-sound-song-tower-review.php

I have a pair of SongTowers, read my own impressions:
http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=36600

To see some photos of mine in clear cherry:
http://api.photoshop.com/home_7e53687d13c747d28ccec9a6980c7256/adobe-px-assets/a0c5734bee194fdb9a8c51a0bb77220e
http://api.photoshop.com/home_7e53687d13c747d28ccec9a6980c7256/adobe-px-assets/763dd32e03c64e46a5d3209c017a7481
http://api.photoshop.com/home_7e53687d13c747d28ccec9a6980c7256/adobe-px-assets/1fe476c13cc44c14a769654cf21c19bd
http://api.photoshop.com/home_7e53687d13c747d28ccec9a6980c7256/adobe-px-assets/2b778c95c2ce45f6aa432373d67150a3
http://api.photoshop.com/home_7e53687d13c747d28ccec9a6980c7256/adobe-px-assets/5e32892df5334d48abd18b49b2da3c2b
http://api.photoshop.com/home_7e53687d13c747d28ccec9a6980c7256/adobe-px-assets/ba771834cf1041849f263d0eb0a728c8

Like Axiom, they are sold Internet Direct only. Browse around the Salk web site to get an idea of the various real wood finishes available, some are standard and some are available at an extra cost. No vinyl finishes at all. Jim Salk, the owner, is a true artist at finishing his speakers. If you send him photos of your room, he can come up with some excellent ideas. That Brazilian cherry floor and wall panels sounds nice.

The Song series, two SongTowers, one SongCenter, two SongSurround Is, and a SongSub will cost $4300 if you choose a standard finish. If you need to come down in price, you could always substitute a less expensive subwoofer without significantly sacrificing overall performance.

The Yamaha receiver you have will drive these speakers without any problem.

[skalathi]

Looks like there is hope after all. The Axiom 60-600 5.1 in upgraded vinyl keeps things under $4000. I'm gonna order a sample of the high gloss cherry to see how well it matches the room.

Pardon my ignorance, but why is biamping the front speakers of no benefit if I am using a receiver versus a separate amplifier?

[Swerd]

… why is biamping the front speakers of no benefit if I am using a receiver versus a separate amplifier?

If you have separate amps from the receiver with enough channels then biamping is possible. The limiting factor is the power supply transformer inside the receiver or amp. In most receivers there is one large transformer with multiple windings for each of the audio channels. Because all 7 channels share the same power supply, you really aren't gaining any extra capacity by assigning some of the reciever's amp channels to do biamping.

Don't expect biamping to do anything magical. Sufficient power from a single more powerful amp will accomplish the same as biamping with less powerful amps. It is a hold over from earlier times when big powerful amps were very expensive. Today, powerful amps are cheap and large full-range speakers are expensive.

[Swerd]

I found a photo of another Salk speaker, the HT-2, not the SongTower, finished in Brazilian cherry. I'm only guessing, but it looks like it is unstained and clear coated. Salk could easily stain it to what ever darkness you want.

http://www.salksound.com/gallery/ht2-brazcherry/ht2-brazcherry.jpg

[sokrman14]

Link (http://www.quad-hifi.co.uk/model.php?sector_id=2&range_id=9&model_id=20&content=4#details)

I just posted a link to the speakers I own. I honestly find them to be the most attractive looking speaker I have ever found. They are Quad loudspeakers, they run around $1600 for their largest 22L loudspeakers, about $600 for the center and $1000 for the largest bookshelf. The link I sent you is to the different finishes they have, but you can renavigate yourself to see the specs and information on them.

[skalathi]

Absolutely beautiful.

I found a photo of another Salk speaker, the HT-2, not the SongTower, finished in Brazilian cherry. I'm only guessing, but it looks like it is unstained and clear coated. Salk could easily stain it to what ever darkness you want.

[skalathi]

Thanks all of you for the advice.

Based upon what I've read, I have changed my plan and will probably be going with an Axiom 60-500 7.1 system in the high gloss cherry vinyl finish. The M60s seem like they will be a lot easier to drive than the M80s with my Yamaha RX-Z7. I also chose the EP500 subwoofer as it still seems to have a fair amount of power, but has a more traditional appearance (i.e. higher spousal acceptance factor) than the EP600. The high gloss cherry vinyl looks great, and is a heck of a lot cheaper than going with custom wood.

I saved so much money using all of your suggestions, that I was able to buy an extra pair of QS8s and still keep the cost for the whole system under $4000. My room won't permit the use of rear surrounds, but I will probably use them as front presence speakers to supplement the M60s.

[fredk]

Nice! Post pics when you get them.

My one regret is that I passed up on the HG cherry. I had a chance to get it without the premium, but I was still saving and didn't want to commit before I had the cash.

[agarwalro]

3. The room they will be in has Brazilian cherry flooring and paneling

Axioms are already called everyting from "revealing" to "bright" to "harsh". With this much highly reflective surface, the room will tend to be "bright" too. I recommend investing some money in an area rug and room acoustics treatments.

I second the recommendation to shop around for a sub from Elemental Design, HSU, SVS, etc.

[sokrman14]

I own these Quads, an absolutely beautiful speaker. A set would run you $1600 for the towers, $500 for the center, and $1000 for rears, thats $3100 for speakers, which leaves you $900 for a sub. I absolutely love them, and they are the best looking speakers I have ever seen as well.

Quad loudspeakers (http://www.quad-hifi.co.uk/model.php?sector_id=2&range_id=11&model_id=37)

They have a few different finishes for them, I have the rosewood which are gorgeous. check em out and see if you like them.

[skalathi]

agarwalro:

I hear what you are saying about the brightness issue. I plan to put in rugs and curtains to help dampen things up a bit. Although I would love to go with an SVS or HSU sub (I have an SVS cylinder sub that my wife wants to destroy) neither of them make subs in cherry. The rosewood that they have is too red for the wood in the room. To keep the SAF up, I want speakers that look like they all are part of the same harmonious design.

sokrman14:

The Quads look quite nice, but but my problem goes to back to the wood: that they don't come in cherry. The rosewood is too red.

[fredk]

Axioms are already called everyting from "revealing" to "bright" to "harsh".
agarwalro. Do you find your M60s bright or harsh?

[agarwalro]

To keep the SAF up, I want speakers that look like they all are part of the same harmonious design.Think of it like putting red wheels on a red car.

Idk, speakers with a finish exactly matching your flooring may not be as apealing as you think. As long as they are in the same color pallet but slightly lighter/darker or contrasting color pallet, they will be asthetic, yet not look like your flooring is coming up to become speakers.

For absolute SAF go in-wall.

[agarwalro]

agarwalro. Do you find your M60s bright or harsh?I use them in 2.1 mode with the cross over at 60Hz for stereo sources and 80Hz for multi channel. Of late, they are powered by a dedicated amp (even though the Denon AVR seemed to drive them just fine). Further, I have spent countless hours moving them around inch by inch, changing the toe-in degree by degree and spent many a sunny weekend running Audessy and REW.

When I listen to them at decent volume, it depends on the recording. On a good recording, I can listen indefinitely and they sound awesome. Sometimes I listen to tracks a couple of times just for the sheer joy of it. On a bad recording I loose patience quickly and find myself turning the volume down within a few tracks, sometimes the very first too. If I had to choose a subjective audiophile word for the sound, for me "revealing" is the most apt.

So why the prefacing commentary about my setup? Because, it took work to make them sound good. Time and patience and countless hours on AH learning about this "hobby".

[fredk]

If I had to choose a subjective audiophile word for the sound, for me "revealing" is the most apt.
Exactly. These speakers are capable of producing everything that is in a recording. This is a good thing!! Most of those who repeat the bright/harsh mantra have never heard the speakers.

I have been avoiding moving my speakers inch by inch to get the best out of them because it takes so much time. I need to improve my soundtage though.

[skalathi]

Think of it like putting red wheels on a red car.

Idk, speakers with a finish exactly matching your flooring may not be as apealing as you think. As long as they are in the same color pallet but slightly lighter/darker or contrasting color pallet, they will be asthetic, yet not look like your flooring is coming up to become speakers.

For absolute SAF go in-wall.

The high gloss cherry that I plan to use is slightly lighter and definitely more glossy than the cherry in the room. But, it still looks good. I ordered a sample from Axiom which I personally verified in the room itself. As you said, a perfect match is not necessary.

The rosewood in the SVS and HSU subs (and the Quad speakers) is A LOT MORE RED than than the wood in the room. Moreover, I don't like the idea of the subwoofer looking much different than all of the other speakers in our system. When I meant a "harmonious whole", I meant the subwoofer and speakers sharing a similar design aesthetic.

Your point about in-wall speakers and SAF is absolutely right. As the room is completely finished, it would be a major undertaking putting in-wall speakers.

Lastly, I think red tires would look bad on any car :D

[agarwalro]

I have been avoiding moving my speakers inch by inch to get the best out of them because it takes so much time. I need to improve my soundtage though.I was amazed at how much difference the toe in angle made. For me the front soundstage went from being somewhat nebulous (in concept and in listening) to existing. It was almost like an epiphany. For now just play around with that, considerably less back breaking... Once you have the optimal toe in angle figured out, play around with placement in context with this angle, which is considerably more difficult since for every new placement, you have to verify that the toe in angle has not changed. But the result is well worth the time and effort. Made me realise how good the M60s are.

Lastly, I think red tires would look bad on any car :DLOL! I had meant wheels, but this is a funny thought.

[fredk]

I've played with toe in and it does not make any difference. I think my problem is too many reflections. I live in a concrete box... er, apartment.

[agarwalro]

I've played with toe in and it does not make any difference. I think my problem is too many reflections. I live in a concrete box... er, apartment.:( That sucks. If your main seat can be at the apex of the equilateral triangle where the speakers are on the points at the base, maybe, the toe in situation can be improved...

[fredk]

Done that, nope. My room REALLY sucks.

[rcw]

I'm researching a 5.1 system for my mom. After some info supplied on this forum, the Aperion T6 towers (piano black) and matching 6C center look awesome and with free delivery both ways if necessary as you have a 30 day free trial. SVS sub will accompany the system as I'm partial to their customer service and quality stuff. Add some surrounds and I think it will fit into your budget. Good luck.