Best 5.1 system for my apartment

[samhfoley]

I have a budget of 1000 dollars for a 5.1 system. I am content to buy just speakers and no sub at the moment. As of right now I am looking primarily at the SVS SCS-01(M) system which would be 819 +150 for shipping. Anyone think I can do better than that the same price range ...less than $1000

Also buying a reciever and debating Onkyo's 2 new models TX-SR607 or the TX-SR507. Wondering if I should save the 200 bucks and go with the 507 since I am only buying a 5.1 system. Thoughts??

Thanks in advance for your help!
-Sam

[Alex2507]

I have something similar to this but with 2 subs:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Amazing-Primus-Package-Deal-5-1-for-only-799_W0QQitemZ140314084041QQihZ004QQcategoryZ3276QQ cmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1742.m153.l1262

I would get 152's instead of the 162's and really rethink the sub on this.
The best place to buy that stuff is here:

http://stores.shop.ebay.com/Harman-Audio__W0QQ_armrsZ1

You may need to be patient for the items to show up but I am confident they will. I have seen the SVS option recommended here at AH many times.

Welcome to the forum. :)

[FirstReflection]

First...Welcome! :)

Second - it's great that you've thought about what you want and decided (roughly) on a direction.

Third - it's excellent that you've come to a forum BEFORE making your final decision :)

Selecting the very best 5.1 surround sound system within your budget is all about meeting your needs and also understanding what makes a system either more than the sum of its parts or less than what you would hope for. The absolutely most important thing we can tell you is that the quality of sound you will hear does not depend solely on what speakers and receiver you buy! The other half of the equation is:

Your room.

We would like to help you to spend your money in the very best way possible. But in order to do that, we need some more details.

To put it plainly, you can buy the best speakers that you can afford, but if they are going into a poor acoustic environment (ie. a "bad" room), then you will not get the performance you hope for. You can ultimately get better performance with slightly less expensive speakers while using a portion of your budget and time to make your room better.

So...before any recommendations for speakers, receivers or other gear can be made, please provide the following details:

1) Please describe your room.

- What are its dimensions (length, width and height)?
- Is it rectangular, or some other shape? (Please describe the shape)
- Is it enclosed or does it have openings to other parts of your home?

2) If at all possible, please provide a rough sketch of your room.

- It doesn't have to be perfect or to scale, but just something we can look at to get a better idea of your room.
- Try to include the placement of your seating and where your gear will be.

3) Please describe to us how you will use this system.

- Is this mostly for movies? Mostly for music? Some of both?

4) Do you have any preferences for certain audio qualities?

- Do you like really detailed audio? Do you like it to sound really energetic? Or do you prefer things to sound a little more mellow? Or maybe you're a bass head? There is no wrong answer :)

5) Do you have any particular preferences for the looks of your speakers?

When we know the size and shape of your room and have a decent idea of how it is laid out and where furniture is placed within the room, then it allows us to suggest ways that you can first improve your room from an acoustics standpoint. Once the room itself has been dealt with, we can then select speakers and a receiver that will work best within that environment and also meet your needs for the way in which you will use this system and for your personal preferences. :)

[jamie2112]

What color is your rug?...........



Just kidding welcome, and Alex and FR already answered you pretty well IMO.

[Alex2507]

What color is your rug?...........

LOL! ... and does it match the drapes? :eek: :D

Just kidding welcome, and Alex and FR already answered you pretty well IMO.

Especially FR. Some people are just better at that kind of thing. :)

[Highbar]

Personal I would look into the SBS series from SVS. If you got them instead of the larger SCS's, which I only see you needing if your apartment is pretty big, you could get the PB10 sub for under a grand all together or the PB12 for a little less than $1100. Either one of them will have enough power in most apartments.

[lsiberian]

I have a budget of 1000 dollars for a 5.1 system. I am content to buy just speakers and no sub at the moment. As of right now I am looking primarily at the SVS SCS-01(M) system which would be 819 +150 for shipping. Anyone think I can do better than that the same price range ...less than $1000

Also buying a reciever and debating Onkyo's 2 new models TX-SR607 or the TX-SR507. Wondering if I should save the 200 bucks and go with the 507 since I am only buying a 5.1 system. Thoughts??

Thanks in advance for your help!
-Sam

For your receiver see the harman kardon store or accessories4less.com enough said!

For your speakers get a pair of Primus towers and that 350 center. Pair it with a pair of 152s for the rear. For you sub grab a dayton 10 or 12 and move on.

Use the other money on the real good stuff. :D

[motomech]

Build your own system.
The Polk Monitor series is being blown out at 50% to 70% off(plus free shipping) @ Newegg.
I have both the new TSi series and the some Monitors and they are the same except for the cosmedics.
I researched long and hard for the best speakers for the money and these are them.

[ack_bak]

I have a budget of 1000 dollars for a 5.1 system. I am content to buy just speakers and no sub at the moment. As of right now I am looking primarily at the SVS SCS-01(M) system which would be 819 +150 for shipping. Anyone think I can do better than that the same price range ...less than $1000

Also buying a reciever and debating Onkyo's 2 new models TX-SR607 or the TX-SR507. Wondering if I should save the 200 bucks and go with the 507 since I am only buying a 5.1 system. Thoughts??

Thanks in advance for your help!
-Sam

As others have mentioned it would really help if you posted the dimension of your room, including ceiling height and how far away you will be sitting from the speakers. In addition do you listen to a lot of music, watch a lot of TV, or is it a mix of both?

Also, keep in mind that those SVS speaker are designed to have a sub for the most part. While you could always add a sub later, I would recommend getting a 3.1 setup first and add surrounds later. IMHO, a sub is often the most important component in a room.

Check out Elemental Designs and their package builder. You can definitely get a 5.1 setup shipped for under $1K using the package builder option.

http://www.edesignaudio.com/htpackage.php

[samhfoley]

I am blown away by the responses thus far. Sorry to have been away from the PC for the last few days. About the room...As I said it's part of an apartment. The room measures 12 feet left to right, 8 feet front to back and 8 feet high. the entire left side is an open entryway into the dining/kitchen area. The TV sits about 5 feet in front of the sofa. Behind the sofa is a sliding door leading to the bedroom.

Another thing to consider is this, I live in Japan and will be coming back to the US to buy gear this summer and take it back with me to Japan. Therefore I also have to take into consideration weight and space requirements. This is one reason I am leaning towards just buying speakers and not a sub on this trip. My family and I will have 5 23kg bags allotted to us. At least 2 of those will be clothes, leaving 3 bags @ 23kg each for audio gear. I can buy another @ roughly 200 bucks for another 20kg. That is another reason I am thinking to buy the AV receiver here in Japan to save on space and weight.

Again not knowing a lot about HT set-ups, my idea was to have the 2 front speakers on top of bookcases on either side of the television, the center channel speaker just under the flatscreen (which would aim right about navel high while sitting on the sofa) and the rear satellites mounted on the side walls towards the rear of the room, about ear level facing the sofa.

I am buying these speakers exclusively for movie viewing. I almost never listen to music, except on my iPod, headphones, and PC speakers.

So you think a 3.1 system w/sub is better than a 5.1 system w/no sub? I have that now, given it's a Panasonic system that's not so great, but I am not so sure. Of course in a perfect world I'd love to have the whole set-up on a plane headed back to Japan , but the sub alone would take up 1 bag I believe!

Thanks again for all of the input. I am eager to hear what you have to say. Many thanks ahead of time!

[samhfoley]

Build your own system.
The Polk Monitor series is being blown out at 50% to 70% off(plus free shipping) @ Newegg.
I have both the new TSi series and the some Monitors and they are the same except for the cosmedics.
I researched long and hard for the best speakers for the money and these are them.

Do you have a URL for which monitor speakers you are referring to? I see numerous Polk Monitor speakers @ NewEgg

[ack_bak]

I am blown away by the responses thus far. Sorry to have been away from the PC for the last few days. About the room...As I said it's part of an apartment. The room measures 12 feet left to right, 8 feet front to back and 8 feet high. the entire left side is an open entryway into the dining/kitchen area. The TV sits about 5 feet in front of the sofa. Behind the sofa is a sliding door leading to the bedroom.

That is not a large room, and I would recommend staying with smaller speakers that are not overpowering. Especially in an apartment. Do you have neighbors above, below, or beside you? This could definitely affect your purchase.

Another thing to consider is this, I live in Japan and will be coming back to the US to buy gear this summer and take it back with me to Japan. Therefore I also have to take into consideration weight and space requirements. This is one reason I am leaning towards just buying speakers and not a sub on this trip. My family and I will have 5 23kg bags allotted to us. At least 2 of those will be clothes, leaving 3 bags @ 23kg each for audio gear. I can buy another @ roughly 200 bucks for another 20kg. That is another reason I am thinking to buy the AV receiver here in Japan to save on space and weight.

I can understand your concern about the sub. I highly recommend the HSU STF-1 for your room. It is small and made for smaller rooms but will still deliver very nice bass. You may also want to look at the HSU HB-1 MKII bookshelf and center speakers for your front and the smaller ventriloquist speakers for the rear. This would probably come out to close to $1K after shipping. Here is their website:
http://www.hsuresearch.com/index.html

The STF-1 sub should fit into a large bag for shipping.

But there should be other options, and if you do just buy speakers some of these companies may ship a sub to Japan. I am also guessing that there are some good subs sold in Japan locally? You do not have to match a sub with your other speakers, but it is essential that you buy speakers that match (make and model) for your front and center speakers. Rear speakers also do not need to match.

Again not knowing a lot about HT set-ups, my idea was to have the 2 front speakers on top of bookcases on either side of the television, the center channel speaker just under the flatscreen (which would aim right about navel high while sitting on the sofa) and the rear satellites mounted on the side walls towards the rear of the room, about ear level facing the sofa.

I am a little concerned about the height of those bookcases. Ideally, the tweeter on the front speakers would be at ear level from your normal seating position. With the center speaker you have a little more flexibility if you can adjust your tweeter as well.

I am buying these speakers exclusively for movie viewing. I almost never listen to music, except on my iPod, headphones, and PC speakers.

So you think a 3.1 system w/sub is better than a 5.1 system w/no sub? I have that now, given it's a Panasonic system that's not so great, but I am not so sure. Of course in a perfect world I'd love to have the whole set-up on a plane headed back to Japan , but the sub alone would take up 1 bag I believe!

Honestly, I would definitely recommend spending the bulk of your money on a 3.1 system. Keep in mind with most movies that the vast amount of audio will be coming from your fronts and sub. Depending on the movie you may not have that much active surround sound. And it is always easy and inexpensive to add surround speakers down the road. So I would recommend focusing on those fronts and sub first. The more I think about it, the more I like the HSU speakers for your environment and budget. Elemental Designs would be overkill for that space.

Thanks again for all of the input. I am eager to hear what you have to say. Many thanks ahead of time!

Hopefully there will be others that have had similar experiences and can chime in :)

EDIT: You may also want to checkout the EMP EF30 bookshelf speakers and matching EF30 center speaker on sale at the audioholics store. You can get a pair of the bookshelf speakers and the matching center for $510 shipped. These speakers are clones of the RBH TK-5C bookshelf speakers which are very solid speakers. If you throw in the HSU STF-1 subwoofer for $325 shipped you have a nice 3.1 setup for under $1K and enough for some surrounds (EMP makes some good ones and they are on sale in the audioholics store).

[ack_bak]

EDIT #2:
Axiom also makes some great little bookshelf speakers with matching centers that will be in your price range even after adding the HSU STF-1 sub.

[samhfoley]

I am not 100% stuck on the idea of bookshelf mounted front speakers. In fact I now have floor standing speakers for fronts. The bookshelves are, however, right at ear level with small speakers mounted on top of them. Another reason I was considering putting them there is my 1 year old. I don't want her poking her little fingers into the speaker cones for fun. If I had towers where the speakers were high enough not to reach that would be ideal.

As far as neighbors go we have one above us, no one below us and noone on either side of us.

The reason I am buying in the States is that things here are prohibitively expensive unless you're buying JP product. I just bought an espresso machine from Canada for 1600 dollars. Same machine in Japan was 3335. I got the espresso machine, a grinder and all accessories & shipping for cheaper than I would have paid for just the espresso machine here in JP.

Hope this helps

[jamie2112]

Nobody anywhere around you...:eek::eek: in Japan thats a rare find:D. I would recommend 3.1 as most movie soundtracks sound comes mostly from the Fronts and Center speakers. Surrounds are effects most of the time. I would check out Acsend speakers as well http://www.ascendacoustics.com/pages/products/speakers/spkrlist.html

[samhfoley]

So I could get the EMP EF30 bookshelf/center channel speakers for 510 + a VTF-1 Subwoofer for 404 for a grand total of $914 or 809 with the
STF-1 Subwoofer which would leave roughly 200 for rear satellites.

Alternatively I could get the Ascend (2) CBM-170 SE and a CMT-340 SE center for 688 + the STF-1 Subwoofer for 299 for a grand total of 987.00

Or I could go with Axiom (2) Millennia M3 Bookshelves and a VP150 Center for 800 bucks delivered to my door in Japan (althought the VP150 says it is designed for med. to lg rooms, maybe better off w/ the VP100? so roughly 630 dollars delivered.

Of course it is convenient to have items delivered to my door, but I don't want to be sacrificing quality either.


Which do you think is the better system for my room? Or other suggestions?

What about receivers in the 400-700 dollar range, preferably Japanese models I could buy here locally....Onkyo? Denon?

[jamie2112]

I would go with the Ascend myself.....

[FirstReflection]

Welcome back! With the information you have provided, here are my thoughts:

1) you need speakers that have wide dispersion.

You are sitting quite close to your TV and front speakers. If you were to go with speakers that have a narrow dispersion (more focus), it would be too easy to pin-point them as three individual speakers. You want them to seemlessly blend across the front so that the illusion of a seemless soundstage is convincing.

2) you need physically small speakers.

This is a small room, you are close to the TV, and aesthetically, you would not want the speakers to look out if place by being too large. Also, for your travel and shipping purposes, smaller speakers are better.

3) you need speakers that will not sound harsh, but will still maintain excellent clarity and detail.

In a small room and with a hard flat surface (your sliding door) behind you, the high frequencies will reflect and bounce around the room. This can make the sound muddy and can also emphasize the high frequencies, making them sound harsh. One solution is to acoustically treat your room with absorptivr panels. But in an apartment, it is unlikely that you will want to glue or hang 2"-4" thick panels on your walls! Another solution is to use speakers that have a slight roll off in the high frequencies. This is a compromise that makes sense for your room acoustics and space constraints.

4) you need a subwoofer that will make sense for your room size and setup.

Physically small speakers really do need a subwoofer to handle the bass for them. But in your situation, you do not want the sub to be too large and you do not want to bother your neighbors.

When I consider these needs, one particular speaker package really stands out as being a perfect fit:

The EMP Tek HTP-551 speaker package, which consists of two pairs of EF50 small bookshelf speakers, one EF50C centre and one EF10 subwoofer.

As luck would have it, the Audioholics Store (store.audioholics.com) has a tremendous sale on EMP speakers at the moment!

I strongly recommend this particular package because it meets all of your needs particularly well. EMP designed these speakers specifically for small room setups exactly like yours and they have followed allbod the sound characteristics that I have identified and recommended.

There are three more pieces if advice that I have for you:

A) the trick to using a subwoofer in an apartment without bothering the neighbors is to decouple it from the floor.

When a subwoofer plays, it shakes. That shaking shakes the floor; the floor shakes the walls; and the walls shake the ceiling, which is why you can here bass throughout your entire building usually! Decoupling -which is to say, putting a shock absorber inbetween the subwoofer and the floor - stops this transfer of energy and greatly reduces the bothersome bass that would typically annoy you neighbors.

So with the savings in your budget, I cannot recommend highly enough that you spend $50 on an Auralex SubDude! The SubDude is a 15" x 15" shock absorbing riser, the perfect size to fit beneath the 14.5" square EF10 subwoofer. If you listen to nothing else I've said, at least follow this one recommendation because the SubDude is the best $50 you'll ever spend for your audio!

B) regarding your receiver - with your room size and the efficiency of the EF50 speakers, you really do not need to worry about amplifier power. You could certainly get good performance from the Onkyo TX-SR507. The only real reason to go up to the TX-SR607 is if you have component or composite video sources that you really really want to translate into HDMI output.

C) finally, regarding speaker placement - I recommend following the Dolby and THX setup guidelines. Visit their websites to read the diagrams! If particular note, all three front speakers should be as close to seated ear height as possible, but your surround speakers should be 2-3 feet above your head when you are sitting

Best of luck!

[lsiberian]

I must disagree with the arguments for 3.1. You want to watch movies only.

Since you are sitting close to the Tele and weight is limited. www.accessories4less.com sells the KEF 3000 series for 1000 US. This is a 1600 dollar speaker package for 1000 dollars. It has a light sleek sub and is satisfactory for most people with intimate rooms. Don't underestimate these speakers. They are very capable of filling your room with sound. Even at their smaller size. Plus they don't take up the space of much larger speakers. There design is excellent in appearance and they use coaxial drivers to present a wide soundstage. The speakers can be used in a 7.1 setup someday if you get a larger room and want some towers. Kef makes great towers. I know they are international and they may sell in Japan. You can give them an audition perhaps. The KEF3000s are what Bose tries to be but fails to be(good small speakers)

[lsiberian]

Welcome back! With the information you have provided, here are my thoughts:

1) you need speakers that have wide dispersion.

You are sitting quite close to your TV and front speakers. If you were to go with speakers that have a narrow dispersion (more focus), it would be too easy to pin-point them as three individual speakers. You want them to seemlessly blend across the front so that the illusion of a seemless soundstage is convincing.

2) you need physically small speakers.

This is a small room, you are close to the TV, and aesthetically, you would not want the speakers to look out if place by being too large. Also, for your travel and shipping purposes, smaller speakers are better.

3) you need speakers that will not sound harsh, but will still maintain excellent clarity and detail.

In a small room and with a hard flat surface (your sliding door) behind you, the high frequencies will reflect and bounce around the room. This can make the sound muddy and can also emphasize the high frequencies, making them sound harsh. One solution is to acoustically treat your room with absorptivr panels. But in an apartment, it is unlikely that you will want to glue or hang 2"-4" thick panels on your walls! Another solution is to use speakers that have a slight roll off in the high frequencies. This is a compromise that makes sense for your room acoustics and space constraints.

4) you need a subwoofer that will make sense for your room size and setup.

Physically small speakers really do need a subwoofer to handle the bass for them. But in your situation, you do not want the sub to be too large and you do not want to bother your neighbors.

When I consider these needs, one particular speaker package really stands out as being a perfect fit:

The EMP Tek HTP-551 speaker package, which consists of two pairs of EF50 small bookshelf speakers, one EF50C centre and one EF10 subwoofer.

As luck would have it, the Audioholics Store (store.audioholics.com) has a tremendous sale on EMP speakers at the moment!

I strongly recommend this particular package because it meets all of your needs particularly well. EMP designed these speakers specifically for small room setups exactly like yours and they have followed allbod the sound characteristics that I have identified and recommended.

There are three more pieces if advice that I have for you:

A) the trick to using a subwoofer in an apartment without bothering the neighbors is to decouple it from the floor.

When a subwoofer plays, it shakes. That shaking shakes the floor; the floor shakes the walls; and the walls shake the ceiling, which is why you can here bass throughout your entire building usually! Decoupling -which is to say, putting a shock absorber inbetween the subwoofer and the floor - stops this transfer of energy and greatly reduces the bothersome bass that would typically annoy you neighbors.

So with the savings in your budget, I cannot recommend highly enough that you spend $50 on an Auralex SubDude! The SubDude is a 15" x 15" shock absorbing riser, the perfect size to fit beneath the 14.5" square EF10 subwoofer. If you listen to nothing else I've said, at least follow this one recommendation because the SubDude is the best $50 you'll ever spend for your audio!

B) regarding your receiver - with your room size and the efficiency of the EF50 speakers, you really do not need to worry about amplifier power. You could certainly get good performance from the Onkyo TX-SR507. The only real reason to go up to the TX-SR607 is if you have component or composite video sources that you really really want to translate into HDMI output.

C) finally, regarding speaker placement - I recommend following the Dolby and THX setup guidelines. Visit their websites to read the diagrams! If particular note, all three front speakers should be as close to seated ear height as possible, but your surround speakers should be 2-3 feet above your head when you are sitting

Best of luck!

I must point out that there are those that don't like EMPs. I know they are good for the price, but I think the KEF series is a better option for you because they will be easier to match with large speakers down the line you. Plus if you need service KEF actually exists in Japan.

Start at http://www.kef.jp/ maybe you can find a dealer and give them a listen. Then you can pick em up cheap here or maybe even there.

[fredk]

Axiom makes excellent speakers and the M3 is well regarded.

Is it possible to go with 3 matching bookshelves across the front in your setup? That would be the ideal setup and would give you better sound than using a horizontal center.

[samhfoley]

another bookshelf behind the TV, there's really not enough room for that we're already 5 ft from the TV sitting on the couch. Pushing the TV further towards us isn't really an option. The bookshelves sit right at ear level, one on either side of the TV.

[samhfoley]

This list is getting longer and more complicated.

My choices now are

1) The EMP EF30 bookshelf/center channel speakers for 510 + a VTF-1 Subwoofer for $404 for a grand total of $914 or 809 with the
STF-1 Subwoofer which would leave roughly 200 for rear satellites.

2) The Ascend (2) CBM-170 SE and a CMT-340 SE center for 688 + the STF-1 Subwoofer for 299 for a grand total of 987.00
or I could go with the VTF-1 sub for a total of 1092.

3) Axiom (2) Millennia M3 Bookshelves and a VP150 Center for 800 bucks delivered to my door in Japan (althought the VP150 says it is designed for med. to lg rooms, maybe better off w/ the VP100? so roughly 630 dollars delivered.

4) the KEF 3000 system for 1000 bucks. My 1st thoughts on seeing the KEFs, honestly, is that I don't like their appearance....and they want 2100 bucks for that system here in Japan.

5) EMP HTP-551T 5.1 Speaker System for 629...discounted 1300 bucks w/free shipping + those towers are high enough to be out of the reach of my daughter....

**The comment about the EMP system didn't make me feel too comfortable with that choice, although they look great in the pictures. I've never heard them...

[Patrick_Wolf]

I've spent about 2 weeks now trying to find the best 5.1 for my apartment too!

It's truly maddening...
http://tbn1.google.com/images?q=tbn:nefNfwpauQDiwM:http://folk.uio.no/tfredvik/g35/scans/insane.gif

Energy's CB-10s and 5s are looking pretty good to me. Dunno what they sound like, but considering what I'm upgrading from I'm sure almost anything would amaze me.

[fredk]

I was thinking of underneath or above the display for the 3rd bookshelf; the same placement as a horizontal center.

How soon are you coming to North America and how much is return shipping on the Axiom system? Maybe you can evaluate them before you come here and, if you don't like them, return them before your visit.

My other thought is that any of these systems is probably very good.

[FirstReflection]

I get your frustration, samhfoley!

The positive way to look at it is that I can honestly say all of the systems that have been recommended are high quality, great sounding speakers!

This isn't a case where you may pick one, only to find that it's awful. This is a case where you could pick any of them and it will sound good!

I'm a little bit puzzled by the "some people don't like the EMP speakers" comment as well. I'm sure that statement is true - after all, I have seen comments from people who do not like Axiom speakers and from people who do not like Ascend speakers, or KEF speakers, or ANY speaker, for that matter.

The thing is, what's most important is to know WHY someone didn't like a particular speaker - and that usually has more to do with the interaction of the speakers with the room and listening environment.

For example, I would hesitate to recommend Axiom speaker to you, in particular. Why? Because they have no high frequency roll-off what-so-ever. It is very likely that they would sound harsh in your room. Does that make them "bad" speakers? Not at all! In a larger, acoustically treated room, Axiom speakers can deliver some of the most accurate, detailed sound for very reasonable prices! But that doesn't make them the perfect choice for EVERY room. And in a room such as yours, you would likely join the small group of people who have complained about Axiom speakers sounding "harsh", "bright" and "sibilant".

Audio is a partnership between your room and the speakers. You can pick speakers that measure extremely well in an "ideal" room and then have them battle with your "less than ideal" room, OR you can understand the issues of your "less than ideal" room and then pick speakers that will work in harmony with those conditions.

So...I can understand some people not liking the EMP EF50 speakers. If they were to use them in a large room, the would sound inadequate in the mid-bass. If they were to use them in a non-reflective room, they may sound lacking in detail because of their high frequency roll-off. And if the listener is sitting far away from them, they may find the EF50 speakers lacking in imaging because at distance, their wide dispersion will lead to a more blended and less precise soundstage.

All valid complaints, but all due to room interaction and setup. In YOUR room, all of the EF50 speakers' characteristics end up being advantages rather than disadvantages. And the characteristics of other speakers end up being disadvantages, where in other rooms, they may be beneficial.

So that is WHY I recommend the EMP EF50 speakers. It is not that I think they are "the best" speakers in outright terms. It is because they have certain characteristics (wide dispersion, slight high frequency roll-off) that will work particularly well in your specific room.

The EMP EF30 speakers are similar - they are just physically larger is all. Fewer people complain about the EF30 speakers because they extend deeper into the bass frequencies and they have less of a high frequency roll-off. That will likely sound better to more people in more rooms. But in your particular situation, the EF50 speakers have advantages - the ones I've mentioned and also physically smaller size.

So I would really welcome some further explanation if others feel that there is a much better choice, but just saying, "these are better" or "these are worse" is not really helpful because without reasons, it is just confusing!

FINAL THOUGHT: regardless of which speakers you pick - please remember to get an Auralex SubDude to put beneath your subwoofer! ;)

[fredk]

Out of curiosity, how did we determine that this is a highly reflective room. The sliding doors behind the couch are, but we don't know much about furnishings in the rest of the room.

FWIW those sliding dooors will cause issues regardless of which speaker you choose. There is a simple solution if those reflections bother you: heavy curtains you can draw when you watch movies.

I don't entirely agree with FirstReflections assesment of the M3's in your room. I run M80s in a highly reflective room and do not find my speakers harsh at all. Female voices, violin and most instruments are just fine. High frequency pipe organ gets rather bright.

[fredk]

Interesting. If you look at the anechoic measurements (http://www.soundstagemagazine.com/measurements/ascend_cbm170/) of the Ascend CMB 170 there is no roll-off on the high end here either, yet I have never seen them described as bright. Actually, these things meaure impressively flat!

[ack_bak]

This list is getting longer and more complicated.

My choices now are

1) The EMP EF30 bookshelf/center channel speakers for 510 + a VTF-1 Subwoofer for $404 for a grand total of $914 or 809 with the
STF-1 Subwoofer which would leave roughly 200 for rear satellites.

2) The Ascend (2) CBM-170 SE and a CMT-340 SE center for 688 + the STF-1 Subwoofer for 299 for a grand total of 987.00
or I could go with the VTF-1 sub for a total of 1092.

3) Axiom (2) Millennia M3 Bookshelves and a VP150 Center for 800 bucks delivered to my door in Japan (althought the VP150 says it is designed for med. to lg rooms, maybe better off w/ the VP100? so roughly 630 dollars delivered.

4) the KEF 3000 system for 1000 bucks. My 1st thoughts on seeing the KEFs, honestly, is that I don't like their appearance....and they want 2100 bucks for that system here in Japan.

5) EMP HTP-551T 5.1 Speaker System for 629...discounted 1300 bucks w/free shipping + those towers are high enough to be out of the reach of my daughter....

**The comment about the EMP system didn't make me feel too comfortable with that choice, although they look great in the pictures. I've never heard them...

I would stay away from towers in your space and go with a nicer bookshelf. Personally, I think the Ascends would be a great pick with an HSU sub. Even then that system will probably be more than you need :)

[FirstReflection]

I think one of the issues here, sam, is that folks are forgetting that you plan to bring these speakers back with you on a passenger plane! I'd love to recommend Emotiva's ERM-1 speakers to you, but bringing them back on a plane could prove troublesome.

It's east to forget the true physical size of these various speakers. None of them are large, but most of the ones recommended are substantial. Read their physical size specs very carefully because I think people are forgetting your need to be able to pack these and bring them with you on a plane.

And just a clarification of my own recommendation, I recommend the EMP HTP-551 package, not the HTP-551T package. The T package has the front towers, but again, this could be troublesome for air travel. The HTP-551 package consists of two pairs of the EF50 compact bookshelf speakers for fronts and surrounds. No EF50T towers ;)

[zipia.salute1]

I've heard about people using 5.1 Logitech computer speakers in their home theater. I'm guessing it would work well in small rooms.

[samhfoley]

Yeah we'll have (5) 23 kg bags allotted to us. I am taking 3 of those for speakers and might possibly buy another 20kg bag for 200 bucks. That should be enough to get a decent sized system back to Japan...I hope!

[samhfoley]

CAn I upload a photo of the room to the forum? If so I'll do so when I get home. Let me know.

[samhfoley]

Here is my living room, shot from the kitchen. You can see the open wall facing the kitchen as well as the sliding door behind the sofa. The bookcases I am going to use are on the right side of the image just inside the door frame. I placed stars on where I was thinking of placing the center channel speaker and the rear surrounds (if I get any) The TV would be moved a bit to the left and 1 book case would be placed on either side of it. Still not sure where I'd park the sub yet...perhaps in the far corner under the rear surround. Anyways, that's the room, sorry for the poor quality shot, but 100KB is a pretty small file size!

[FirstReflection]

Great that you uploaded that photo!

Your room is much as I pictured it from your previous description. As I suspected, you have a very close seating distance and you are basically surrounded by normal, flat walls. All of the important characteristics of which I have already spoken very much apply IMO.

I keep feeling almost apologetic for my steadfast recommendation of the EMP HTP-551 package. I've wracked my brain trying to come up with some other better alternative, but I simply cannot think of one. The exact characteristics of the EF50 and EF50C speakers are basically tailor made for your type of small room setup.

To be blunt, seeing the photo of your room only adds more reasons for me to continue to strongly favor the EMP HTP-551 speakers. For one, it would be best if you could place the centre speaker on the same shelf as the TV itself. That means that it cannot be too deep and it must also be short so that it does not obscure any of the bottom of your TV's screen. The EF50C is 6.5" deep and 5" tall which is about as small as you can make a speaker before you go into "micro" speaker territory where the midrange drivers are so small that the cross-over rises to about 180Hz and really makes getting a blend with the subwoofer difficult!

And yet another advantage of the EF50 speakers is that they are a sealed design with no ports on the back. That's going to make them more suitable for being wall mounted as surround speakers and will also help their sound if you decide to put the front Left/Right speakers inside of the bookcases rather than on the very top of them.

To be perfectly clear, your room is not ideal. Compromises have to be made and it isn't reasonable to expect "highest of the high end" sound quality when recognizing your room restrictions. Many people subscribe to the idea of buying the most technically "correct" speakers - regardless of the room - and then basically either attempting to "fix" the room and setup or else just saying, "well...it's not the speakers' fault, so end result performance be damned!"

I do not subscribe to that attitude. I see the room and the speakers as being equal partners and to me, it makes sense to recognize what the room and placement are going to do to the sound and then picking speakers that will work in harmony with those restrictions to give you an end result that is more than the sum of its parts.

For your room and setup, most speakers are simply physically too large. The centre speaker in particular needs to be able to fit on your TV stand and not block the bottom of the image nor hang way out over the edge due to being too deep! The surround speakers are best wall mounted (they should be mounted to the wall about 2-3 feet above your seated height) and with such close proximity to the wall, it would be best to use a sealed speaker design. Because you are sitting so close to the front speakers, they need to have very wide dispersion so that they can create a seemless front soundstage. And because your room is 3 flat reflective walls, it will help if the speakers have a slight high frequency roll-off so that they do not sound harsh or fatiguing. Finally, any such speakers will need the help of a subwoofer. That subwoofer needs to be an appropriate size for your room and it needs to be able to blend well with the 5 speakers.

Those are the conditions regardless of what speakers your buy. But it just so happens that the EMP HTP-551 package precisely matches all of your needs!

Almost all of the other speakers that have been recommended are larger than you may think. A 7" height is about the smallest of the other contenders and that is almost certain to block a tiny bit of the bottom of your TV screen. Several of them are ported - which typically means they need about a 2 foot distance from the wall to sound their best.

I would recommend the Emotiva ERM-1 speakers to you, but they are too large. I might also recommend the Energy RC-Mini and RC-Mini-Centre speakers, but they are ported.

I guess the simplest way I can put it is that if it were my money and I were in your room, these EMP HTP-551 speakers (http://store.audioholics.com/product/2297/17/emp-htp-551-5-1-speaker-system) are what I would buy and I would certainly buy an Auralex SubDude (http://store.audioholics.com/product/1398/66200/auralex-subdude-trade--subwoofer-flotation-device) while I was at it :)

[samhfoley]

narrowed the list of receivers...

Yamaha DSP-AX863 $687.00
Onkyo TX-SA507 $475.00
DENON AVC-1610 $500.00

Can/should I buy a separate sub with that EMP set-up? Would that be overkill to get the HSU VTF-1 Subwoofer paired with that EMP set-up?? I should clarify, I want the HSU sub instead of the one offered by EMP...possible? Needed? Overkill??

[samhfoley]

Emotiva ERM-1 says 21lbs boxed x 2 = 42lbs, that's 1 bag on the plane. 2 more to go. ERM-6.3 LCR Monitor = 43lbs boxed, that's 2 bags on the plane, but we're already at 1000 dollars by this point, unless I just buy 3 ERM-1s for 600 and the HSU sub for 404 for a grand total of 1004 dollars...

My other thought is that I am not going to be in this apartment more than 2 more years. We're looking at houses now and I don't want to limit my range just because of where I am right now. SO many variables, it's making my head spin! Good thing I have until July to sort this out!

[fredk]

I am not going to be in this apartment more than 2 more years.
I guess it depends what kind of person you are. I tend to spend up front and keep stuff for a long time.

[ack_bak]

narrowed the list of receivers...

Yamaha DSP-AX863 $687.00
Onkyo TX-SA507 $475.00
DENON AVC-1610 $500.00

Can/should I buy a separate sub with that EMP set-up? Would that be overkill to get the HSU VTF-1 Subwoofer paired with that EMP set-up?? I should clarify, I want the HSU sub instead of the one offered by EMP...possible? Needed? Overkill??

Just make sure you buy an HDMI switching (ie both audio and video over HDMI) receiver for future upgrades. I believe you need to step up the 6,7,8, etc Onkyo lineup to get HDMI switching. Not sure about those other receivers.

[anamorphic96]

You might also want to look at the Energy Take Classic System. It is tailor made for a room like yours and can be had for around 400.00 online from authorized dealers.

Its a killer sounding system at a great price.

http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/speakers/satellite/energy-take-classic-review

http://reviews.cnet.com/surround-speaker-systems/energy-take-classic/4505-7868_7-33310963.html

[adammr]

i hate reading these. I cant have anything in my apartment because the lady down stairs is a ..... well you know:mad:

[Patrick_Wolf]

i hate reading these. I cant have anything in my apartment because the lady down stairs is a ..... well you know:mad:

I know what you're saying... ;)

http://moviesblog.mtv.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/090507_dannydevito2.jpg

[samhfoley]

there is an open apt. next door if you wanna move to japan

[samhfoley]

I would stay away from towers in your space and go with a nicer bookshelf. Personally, I think the Ascends would be a great pick with an HSU sub. Even then that system will probably be more than you need :)

You would pick Ascends even though they are all ported and I don't have much clearance at all between the bookshelf and the wall / or Tv and rear wall?

[ack_bak]

You would pick Ascends even though they are all ported and I don't have much clearance at all between the bookshelf and the wall / or Tv and rear wall?

Probably not. I did not realize that you were that close to your wall. I had the same problem and ended up getting SVS speakers. But you may want to talk to the manufacturer about how much clearance you need. Ascend also makes these (which are not rear ported and may be ideal for your space):
http://ascendacoustics.com/pages/products/speakers/htm200/htm200.html

[samhfoley]

LOL, here we are at page 5 and we've come full circle back to SVS again. Sounds as though my best options for non ported speakers are SVS, EMP, and Energy systems. The Emotiva system is ported isn't it? Anyways using the ERM-6.2 as a center channel looks like it'd be too tall to fit under my TV. The HTM-200 SE also look to be too tall to use as a center channel speaker as well. I might have to put my TV on a riser or something. I have 5.5 inches of space from my TV stand to the bottom of my screen.

[ack_bak]

LOL, here we are at page 5 and we've come full circle back to SVS again. Sounds as though my best options for non ported speakers are SVS, EMP, and Energy systems. The Emotiva system is ported isn't it? Anyways using the ERM-6.2 as a center channel looks like it'd be too tall to fit under my TV. The HTM-200 SE also look to be too tall to use as a center channel speaker as well. I might have to put my TV on a riser or something. I have 5.5 inches of space from my TV stand to the bottom of my screen.

The Emotiva systems are sealed. And the ERM-1's should be more than enough for using as fronts and center speakers (and those are smaller than the ERM-2's). But keep in mind that these are 4ohm speakers so you would want to buy a receiver that supports 4ohm speakers. In my case, my Onkyo 605 did not. Most midlevel receivers do.

As far as SVS, my speakers should be arriving either on Friday or next Monday and I would be happy to give you an honest impression coming from Polk audio mains that I bought 9 years ago.

There are many alternatives to choose from, and it might make sense to audition speakers like Klipsch, PSB, Deftech, NHT, B&W, etc either in Japan if you can or in the States if time allows. I did that before ordering the SVS speakers and it really helped in terms of understanding what you want in a speaker and how powerful a good bookshelf speaker can be with a midlevel amp and a subwoofer.

Honestly, I was set to buy the Emotiva's but my receiver was not adequate enough. There are so many choices and at some point you just have to pick one and try it out, or be happy :)

[samhfoley]

What are some receivers that support 4ohm speakers.... Denon, Yamaha, Onkyo? I'd love to hear your impression of the SVS speakers too!

[fredk]

Any Denon, higher end yamaha say RXV1800 or above, higher end Onkyo 7 & 8 series, Sherwood Newcastle. There are probably others. I am actually using a low end Sherwood and it holds up fine under a 4Ohm load.

[samhfoley]

Only new Denon I see new in Japan this year so far is the AVC-1610. This one OK? enough for my 5.1 system? $498 or should I wait for other releases later in 2009? Does it have the HDMI switching recommended before in an earlier post?

[samhfoley]

I now must include the Usher Audio S-520 Bookshelf Speakers too since they got such rave reviews. What center channel speaker would I use with these? S-525 Center Channel ?? DO I need to match the fronts and centers?
-Sam

[Patrick_Wolf]

I now must include the Usher Audio S-520 Bookshelf Speakers too since they got such rave reviews. What center channel speaker would I use with these? S-525 Center Channel ?? DO I need to match the fronts and centers?
-Sam

No, you don't need too, but you definitely should. :)

"Speakers, more than any other piece of equipment, sound different from one another. You want your surround system to have a cohesive and consistent sound. For example, in particular, you don't want your front left and right speakers to have a distinct sound, and then the center channel to sound different. Vocals, as they move from one speaker to another as the actor moves across the stage would sound very odd as a result. Timbre matching, therefore, generally refers to matching the sound of each speaker. That's why it is wise to buy all your speakers from the same manufacturer, providing they have been matched together as a system."

[samhfoley]

I am now leaning towards either...

Emotiva's (3) ERM-1 Reference LCR Monitors + the VTF-1 Subwoofer from HSU research total $1004

or

Usher Audio's S-520 Shielded & S-525 Center Channel + STF-1 Subwoofer from HSU research. total $1237

I think I'd rather buy for the longer term taking into account future dwellings rather than shelling out twice for 2 different setups to fit each domicile. What do you think? and which receiver to go w/ these? The Denon AVC-1610?

[samhfoley]

Ascend Audio

CBM-170 SE pair (B-stock) = $268 /pair

CMT-340 SE pair (B-stock) = $458 pair

CMT-340 SE center (B-stock) = $238

That's 964 or so for the entire Ascsend system.... What to you think? It is B-Stock... and they're ported, that's right forgot that part....

[samhfoley]

The HSU sub has a rear port as well. Would that mean that it would also need to sit well away from the rear wall to be effective? SO many variables!

[Patrick_Wolf]

Just throwing it out there because I've been looking at Energy offerings closely and see that there Connoisseur series (http://www.energy-speakers.com/na-en/products/connoisseur-series/) come with port plugs for wall-mounting/near-wall placement.

[samhfoley]

Energy 5.1 Take Classic Home Entertainment System does look appealing and quite a bit less costly than my other choices at 395 for the whole system....

[anamorphic96]

I think in your size room it would be a killer sounding system. I have heard this system myself and it's very impressive and sounds much larger than it is. The sub it comes with is no slouch as well.

[Patrick_Wolf]

Energy 5.1 Take Classic Home Entertainment System does look appealing and quite a bit less costly than my other choices at 395 for the whole system....

I see this system suggested many times, I'd love to hear it myself (or any Energy speaker for that matter). But two setups I'm considering personally is the CB-10s/CC-10 center(B-Stock from WorldWideStereo)/CB-5 rears (from Vanns) - $620 shipped. Or simply CB-5s/CC-5- $560 shipped. And then I dunno bout the sub, but the list I've complied so far is:

TSC T250 - $250 shipped
HSU STF-2 - $388 shipped
BIC Acoustech H-100 - $279 shipped (ebay)
Premier Acoustic PA-120 - $229 shipped (ebay)
BIC Acoustech VK-12 - $329 shipped (ebay)
[Elemental Designs] eD A2 - 250 - $325 shipped

I know we all want the best for our budget, but with audio there's SOO many choices and given room acoustics and subjective listening it seems nearly impossible to get the best without hearing every option set-up right in your own home.

[LottaKash]

Was just driving by, and took notice of this thread, especially about the "Energy" - "Take-5.1 System"....and just as previously stated by others here......You cannot go wrong for the money with this sytem in an apartment environment......If will thrill you a bit at first, if you have never heard it before, and you probably wonder how a system so small and low-priced could make all that great sound........

A friend just purchased this setup recently, and I was impressed by it for what it is.......And it is also true, that the 8"-Sub is a marvelous little thing that has amazing output for what it is.......

I have seen this advertised recently for just around $300 or so...and that in and of itself is amazing considering what you get for your money......With the money you can save on this speaker ensemble, you can afford a good quality CD player and Receiver, and still be way in your budget.....

Good luck, I hope you find what you are looking for.......Good Sound is so Good.....Once you hear it, you will never go back.....

best,

[ack_bak]

The HSU sub has a rear port as well. Would that mean that it would also need to sit well away from the rear wall to be effective? SO many variables!

No. You need to have some clearance with the wall, but the rule of thumb is typically 1" of clearance for each inch of port size. Per HSU, you would want to place the STF-1 at least inches from any wall.

[ack_bak]

Ascend Audio

CBM-170 SE pair (B-stock) = $268 /pair

CMT-340 SE pair (B-stock) = $458 pair

CMT-340 SE center (B-stock) = $238

That's 964 or so for the entire Ascsend system.... What to you think? It is B-Stock... and they're ported, that's right forgot that part....

If this system is for movies, you are definitely going to want a subwoofer. I think you would really regret getting bookshelf mains and buying surrounds but not having a subwoofer to drive the lower frequency bass. Especially for movies. IMHO, you should probably spend as much or more on your sub as you would your front speakers. I would definitely recommend 3.1 vs 5.0 if this system is going to be used at all for home theater.

[ack_bak]

I am now leaning towards either...

Emotiva's (3) ERM-1 Reference LCR Monitors + the VTF-1 Subwoofer from HSU research total $1004

or

Usher Audio's S-520 Shielded & S-525 Center Channel + STF-1 Subwoofer from HSU research. total $1237

I think I'd rather buy for the longer term taking into account future dwellings rather than shelling out twice for 2 different setups to fit each domicile. What do you think? and which receiver to go w/ these? The Denon AVC-1610?

I would personally go with the Emotiva's and spend some money to get some affordable surrounds.

[samhfoley]

with the money saved which surrounds would you reccomend?

[ack_bak]

with the money saved which surrounds would you reccomend?

If you go with the ERM-1's I would spring for these if they are in the budget:
http://emotiva.com/erd1.shtm

Not sure if you have heard dipoles, but I really like them. I have not heard the Emotiva dipoles, but they get rave reviews.

For $761 shipped this package seems to be a very solid deal and should last you a long time:
http://emotiva.com/shop/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=25

And if you could spring for it, one of these bad boys:
http://www.svsound.com/products-sub-cyl-pcpow3.cfm

I have heard a number of SVS subs and they are top notch. But based on the smaller spaces in Japan, you would be more than fine with a smaller and cheaper HSU sub. The STF-2 would be more than enough for the future if you move to a larger space.

For the record, I have an Elemental Designs sub (A2-300). It is in my basement with drywall, and acoustical insulation between the basement and main level and that sub rocks my whole 3600 sq ft house if I put on a reference Blu-Ray like Master And Commander and crank it up. It would be big time overkill for your space. That is why I am recommending HSU subs which I have personally spent time with and really liked. They do not pack the punch that an eD sub or the more expensive SVS subs have (although HSU has some of those subs too) but they will have tight accurate bass that will be more than enough to give you what you need for home theater.

[samhfoley]

I was also looking at that package from Emotiva and salivating. I think that might just be the one to go for. My problem now is weight and space. The Emotiva parts come to exactly 2 bags for the plane and the SVS Sub is exactly 23kg (1bag) (probably more shipped). That leaves me no room for the HTPC my friend is building me. Maybe I'll just buy another 20kg bag for $200.

Here's another unknown to me. Will I need another amp besides my AV receiver to run this Emotiva system & the SVS subwoofer?

Also, someone mentioned any Denon would play 4 ohm speakers. is that right? The new AVC-1610 will do that? Also wanted to know if the new 1610 have the HDMI switching recommended before in an earlier post?

[ack_bak]

I was also looking at that package from Emotiva and salivating. I think that might just be the one to go for. My problem now is weight and space. The Emotiva parts come to exactly 2 bags for the plane and the SVS Sub is exactly 23kg (1bag) (probably more shipped). That leaves me no room for the HTPC my friend is building me. Maybe I'll just buy another 20kg bag for $200.

Here's another unknown to me. Will I need another amp besides my AV receiver to run this Emotiva system & the SVS subwoofer?

Also, someone mentioned any Denon would play 4 ohm speakers. is that right? The new AVC-1610 will do that? Also wanted to know if the new 1610 have the HDMI switching recommended before in an earlier post?

If you buy a decent receiver that supports 4ohms I would think that you would be fine. I can't find any solid specs on the Denon 1610 yet but I would guess that it only does HDMI video switching, not audio (the 1609 did not and the 1610 is the replacement receiver). I do notice that the 1610 does not have a preamp out so you cannot hookup an amp in the future which seems limiting to me as well (I am in the same boat with the Onkyo 605). I take it you plan on buying the receiver in Japan vs the US? I am not sure if they offer Onkyo receivers there, but you can pick up a refurbished Onkyo 806 for a decent price at shoponkyo.com (comes with a full 1 year waranty). This receiver will drive 4ohm speakers and has pre-outs as well. I believe any receiver that is THX Ultra 2 Plus Certified should be able to drive 4 ohm speakers but I could be wrong.

I think Denon makes excellent speakers as well, and Yamaha is also a good fit. If you are buying in Japan you may want to check with local dealers to ensure you get a receiver that meets your needs. That said, it will definitely require a step up to get a receiver that supports 4ohms per their user manual. So you may want to reconsider 6-8 ohm speakers if you do not want to spend as much on a receiver. IMHO, I really wished I would have sucked it up and bought the Onkyo 805 at the time vs the 605. The 605 is a good receiver, but the 805 seems much more future proof. And you may want to look for a used or refurbished Onkyo 805. It will meet all your needs.

[fredk]

Denon seems to be very popular with folks that own the Axiom M80 (4 Ohm speaker). I have seen posts from folks using stuff from the 8 & 9 series without any issues.

There are also a few using the Onkyo 805/6. They tend to run hot so you need to make sure the receiver is properly ventilated.

[samhfoley]

Yes I am planning to buy the receiver in Japan. The Onkyo 805 is about 1300 dollars right now... a little more than I was wanting to pay for a receiver. How about the new 607 from Onkyo?

[samhfoley]

impedance 6 Ohms

same as the 805 actually

not sure if that's the stat I am looking for. Hard to read up on these in Japanese!

[ack_bak]

impedance 6 Ohms

same as the 805 actually

not sure if that's the stat I am looking for. Hard to read up on these in Japanese!

The 607 is the newer version of the 606/605. It is a solid receiver for the money, but you will not get a preamp and Onkyo will not recommend running 4ohm speakers on them. The general consensus is that you can, but I did not want to take any chances and that is why I canceled my order on the Emotiva speakers and went with the SVS speakers. The SVS speakers (SCS-01's, and SB1's) are highly regarded as home theater speakers but not as well regarded for music (although they are not bad). I will be using my speakers for 95-98% home theater usage and mostly listen to music on my computer/iPod.

BTW, you will need to read the owners manual to determine if 4ohm speakers are acceptable with most receivers. In my Onkyo 605 manual it specifically states to use 6-8 ohm speakers and not to use 4ohm. That was why both myself and the Emotiva tech I spoke to were leary.

[samhfoley]

http://denon.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/denon.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=58&p_created=1187274955&p_sid=f-Jur_vj&p_accessibility=0&p_redirect=&p_lva=&p_sp=cF9zcmNoPTEmcF9zb3J0X2J5PSZwX2dyaWRzb3J0PSZwX 3Jvd19jbnQ9MiwyJnBfcHJvZHM9MCZwX2NhdHM9MCZwX3B2PSZ wX2N2PSZwX3BhZ2U9MSZwX3NlYXJjaF90ZXh0PW9obQ**&p_li=&p_topview=1

seems to say that all Denon receivers can run 4 ohm speakers but says that you need to be careful of excessive volume which shouldn't be a problem in my little apt.

[ack_bak]

http://denon.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/denon.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=58&p_created=1187274955&p_sid=f-Jur_vj&p_accessibility=0&p_redirect=&p_lva=&p_sp=cF9zcmNoPTEmcF9zb3J0X2J5PSZwX2dyaWRzb3J0PSZwX 3Jvd19jbnQ9MiwyJnBfcHJvZHM9MCZwX2NhdHM9MCZwX3B2PSZ wX2N2PSZwX3BhZ2U9MSZwX3NlYXJjaF90ZXh0PW9obQ**&p_li=&p_topview=1

seems to say that all Denon receivers can run 4 ohm speakers but says that you need to be careful of excessive volume which shouldn't be a problem in my little apt.

Then Denon may be the way to go. They are excellent receivers. I just remembered. The Onkyo 605/606/607 models in Europe are authorized to drive 4 ohm speakers. So there is a chance that the Japanese models may as well. You may want to download and check the Japanese Onkyo 607 manual. The 607 will offer more bang for the buck vs the Denon but I have found Denon receivers to sound a little "warmer".

[samhfoley]

Called Denon and Onkyo today. Onkyo said their receiver is has a switch between 4, 6 and 8 ohms. Denon said that all of their receivers are rated 6 ohms and up. They said I could use 4 ohm speakers but that i would have to shy away from playing music or movies too loudly and also for extended durations of time as temperatures could rise causing damage. I asked how long is too long and they said that they couldn't give me a definitive answer. So knowing that....which would you choose?

Denon
AVC-1610 500 dollars
AVC-3920 700 dollars
SCS-01M 5.0 Set with SBS-01 surrounds Black & 2531PCi sub total 1373.30

Onkyo
TX-SA607 $630
Emotiva Speaker system w SVS or HSU sub
3 ERM-1 LCR Monitors, and 2 ERD-1 Surround $761
2531PCi sub $566
Total cost $1327

[ack_bak]

Called Denon and Onkyo today. Onkyo said their receiver is has a switch between 4, 6 and 8 ohms. Denon said that all of their receivers are rated 6 ohms and up. They said I could use 4 ohm speakers but that i would have to shy away from playing music or movies too loudly and also for extended durations of time as temperatures could rise causing damage. I asked how long is too long and they said that they couldn't give me a definitive answer. So knowing that....which would you choose?

Denon
AVC-1610 500 dollars
AVC-3920 700 dollars
SCS-01M 5.0 Set with SBS-01 surrounds Black & 2531PCi sub total 1373.30

Onkyo
TX-SA607 $630
Emotiva Speaker system w SVS or HSU sub
3 ERM-1 LCR Monitors, and 2 ERD-1 Surround $761
2531PCi sub $566
Total cost $1327

Are you into Blu-Ray? That Denon 3920 is an older model (released in 2005) and does not have some of the features that newer receivers have like decoding to Dolby TrueHD, and DTS HD-MA. You also want to ensure that this receiver can carry both audio and video over HDMI (I am almost positive that the AVC-1610 cannot). In addition, the newer Onkyo receiver will be rated for HDMI 1.3 (as will the newer Denon). If you do not care about Blu-Ray and don't think you will in the future the Denon 3910 and 1610 may be a great fit.

If you do care about Blu-Ray or the ability to send both audio and video over HDMI I think the Onkyo is the pick. As far as speakers go, the Emotiva speakers vs the SVS speakers have more features and offer more flexibility. Like I mentioned I had selected the Emotiva's over the SVS speakers but the fact that the Onkyo 605 was not rated to drive 4ohm speakers in the US was the dealbreaker.

As for the HSU subs vs the SVS subs. Tough call. Both excellent subs, but I have always really liked the SVS subs and the cylinder design of the 2531 makes it unique and a little easier, IMHO, to place in a room. Honestly though? I think you would be very happy either way. It really comes down to budget. You can get the STF-2 for cheaper and I think this sub would really be more than you need.

But. If you plan on keeping this equipment for a long time and could be moving to a larger space stepping up to a bigger and more powerful sub may make more sense longterm.

I guess flip a coin at this point :) Either way, I think you will have an audio system that will blow your socks off (especially for movies) and will easily give you 10 years of happiness (or more).

If you are still on the fence you could always try contacting both SVS and Emotiva and talking to them about any concerns you have. That is what I did. I thought both companies (as well as HSU) had excellent customer service, and all of them seemed up front and honest about their speakers.

[lsiberian]

Was just driving by, and took notice of this thread, especially about the "Energy" - "Take-5.1 System"....and just as previously stated by others here......You cannot go wrong for the money with this sytem in an apartment environment......If will thrill you a bit at first, if you have never heard it before, and you probably wonder how a system so small and low-priced could make all that great sound........

A friend just purchased this setup recently, and I was impressed by it for what it is.......And it is also true, that the 8"-Sub is a marvelous little thing that has amazing output for what it is.......

I have seen this advertised recently for just around $300 or so...and that in and of itself is amazing considering what you get for your money......With the money you can save on this speaker ensemble, you can afford a good quality CD player and Receiver, and still be way in your budget.....

Good luck, I hope you find what you are looking for.......Good Sound is so Good.....Once you hear it, you will never go back.....

best,

You should see what a JL Audio 8W7 build is capable off. :) It's an 8 inch sub that can beat any sub mentioned so far that I've seen.

If interested. I can give you detail on how to build your own. it would be way smaller than the SVS and HSU with greater output. I'm currently planning to use a pair for my subs. PM me for more details.

[lsiberian]

After seeing your room here are my suggestions

Build a 4.1 system with a pair of small subs. If you can get a couple of DIY ones together that would be ideal. I wish I were experienced enough to build you a JL Audio 8w7 at this point. I know that type of build would be amazing and easily fill your room with LFE.

Your sitting on axis with the tv so you don't need a center speaker. Most low end Center speakers suck anyway and you'd be better off putting your money in the LR channels than in the center channel at your budget level. Center channels can be more trouble than their worth in many rooms.

Get a brand that you can match with speakers in Japan!

I know there was the EMP plug from a certain member.
Read this post before you buy EMP and then choose for yourself.
http://www.drmarksays.com/?p=71
In that post is a very discouraging review of them. Not to bash any EMP readers. I suggest if you own EMP speakers you not read that post.

This guy is very well respected here and is far more knowledgeable than me on loudspeakers. So I trust his opinions. Ultimately it's your ears anyway.

You don't have to choose right away so take your time.

[ack_bak]

After seeing your room here are my suggestions

Build a 4.1 system with a pair of small subs. If you can get a couple of DIY ones together that would be ideal. I wish I were experienced enough to build you a JL Audio 8w7 at this point. I know that type of build would be amazing and easily fill your room with LFE.

Your sitting on axis with the tv so you don't need a center speaker. Most low end Center speakers suck anyway and you'd be better off putting your money in the LR channels than in the center channel at your budget level. Center channels can be more trouble than their worth in many rooms.

Get a brand that you can match with speakers in Japan!

I know there was the EMP plug from a certain member.
Read this post before you buy EMP and then choose for yourself.
http://www.drmarksays.com/?p=71
In that post is a very discouraging review of them. Not to bash any EMP readers. I suggest if you own EMP speakers you not read that post.

This guy is very well respected here and is far more knowledgeable than me on loudspeakers. So I trust his opinions. Ultimately it's your ears anyway.

You don't have to choose right away so take your time.

Keep in mind those EMP speakers were prototype F70 speakers (ie they are not for sale yet and my guess is that EMP is working out the issues with them). The F30 speakers are clones of the RBH TK5 speakers which, I can vouch for having listened to the RBH speakers in person, are darned nice speakers. I am not sure about the F50 speakers. But it seems like the F30's are a very safe bet as far as audio quality goes.

[samhfoley]

I know there was the EMP plug from a certain member.
Read this post before you buy EMP and then choose for yourself.
http://www.drmarksays.com/?p=71
In that post is a very discouraging review of them. Not to bash any EMP readers. I suggest if you own EMP speakers you not read that post.

This guy is very well respected here and is far more knowledgeable than me on loudspeakers. So I trust his opinions. Ultimately it's your ears anyway.



One of the options that he gives the best reviews to are the HSU HB-1H's. I could also get
* 1 VTF-1 Subwoofer
* 4 HB-1 MK2 Horn Bookshelf
* 1 HC-1 MK2 Horn Center Channel
for $1279 - $1429

He rates those above the Emotivas.... AND they would only account for 2.5 bags on the plane, leaving me with room for the HTPC..... hmmmmm Anybody else heard these and want to chime in?

[lsiberian]

One of the options that he gives the best reviews to are the HSU HB-1H's. I could also get
* 1 VTF-1 Subwoofer
* 4 HB-1 MK2 Horn Bookshelf
* 1 HC-1 MK2 Horn Center Channel
for $1279 - $1429

He rates those above the Emotivas.... AND they would only account for 2.5 bags on the plane, leaving me with room for the HTPC..... hmmmmm Anybody else heard these and want to chime in?

The guy knows his stuff. So you couldn't go wrong with something he likes.

[ack_bak]

One of the options that he gives the best reviews to are the HSU HB-1H's. I could also get
* 1 VTF-1 Subwoofer
* 4 HB-1 MK2 Horn Bookshelf
* 1 HC-1 MK2 Horn Center Channel
for $1279 - $1429

He rates those above the Emotivas.... AND they would only account for 2.5 bags on the plane, leaving me with room for the HTPC..... hmmmmm Anybody else heard these and want to chime in?

These speakers get very solid reviews, but keep in mind that they are rear ported so if you have them in a cabinet or close to a wall, it may affect some of your bass. I really struggled with trying to decide between the HSU and the SVS speakes, but since my speakers will eventually be housed behind an acoustically transparant screen and close to the wall, I went with the SVS SCS-01 speakers since they are sealed. I called HSU and they recommended that the MKII's have at least 2" of clearance from the back port, so they probably would have worked for me, but I thought sealed would be the way to go for my room.

[samhfoley]

them darned ports and their requisite clearance! Always when I find a direction to go in I am thwarted! I definitely do not have 2 ft of clearance, be lucky to have 6 inches in fact!

[lsiberian]

them darned ports and their requisite clearance! Always when I find a direction to go in I am thwarted! I definitely do not have 2 ft of clearance, be lucky to have 6 inches in fact!

You only need the distance diameter of the port. So for a 2 inch port you only need 2 inches. Of course i'm not and advocate of ported speakers.

[ack_bak]

them darned ports and their requisite clearance! Always when I find a direction to go in I am thwarted! I definitely do not have 2 ft of clearance, be lucky to have 6 inches in fact!

It is 2" or 2 inches :)

There owners manual recommends ideal placement at 27" though from the wall. I only had 8-9", that is why I went with a sealed design vs a ported design. I did call and speak to an HSU engineer and he did assure me that these speakers would work in my space as long as I had at least 2" of clearance. But I did not want to create any limitation since I do not have the fake wall built yet and the acoustically transparent screen in place. So I would not be able to send them back and get my money back within their guarantee window.

And in your case (since you will be in Japan) you might want to play it safe as well and go with a sealed design.

You are going through the exact same thing I did :)

That is why I went with the SVS speakers. At the end of the day they met all my room requirements and get rave reviews. If you want to read more about SVS this site was very helpful as well:
http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/svsound/

[samhfoley]

I just sent off an email to HSU, we'll see what they say as far as the clearance goes....

[samhfoley]

from HSU...

"Hi Sam,

4-6" of clearance behind the speakers should be plenty. In our demo room, the
rear speakers have no more than 3-4" of clearance in the back, and everything
sounds great!"

and from SVS with regards to that PB12–Ultra/2 sub....

"If that's still on the website it is old and needs to be removed; we sold the last one a little while ago. We haven't really done testing on the Japanese voltage since we don't sell to that market. From what I know I don't think there'd be any issue but I do have to re-iterate we won't knowingly sell a powered sub that's going to Japan."

[samhfoley]

I should say the 25-31PCi sub....not the PB12-Ultra......is now unavailable

[ack_bak]

I should say the 25-31PCi sub....not the PB12-Ultra......is now unavailable

Well, I guess that makes it easier :)

So what are you thining? HSU speakers or SVS? IMHO, you cannot go wrong either way.

[samhfoley]

looking more and more like the HSU's are going to be what I take back to Japan. They are lighter and will also allow me to transport the HTPC without having to buy another piece of luggage for the plane. Too bad I have to wait until July to see them and late August before I can get them back here and set them up!

[ack_bak]

looking more and more like the HSU's are going to be what I take back to Japan. They are lighter and will also allow me to transport the HTPC without having to buy another piece of luggage for the plane. Too bad I have to wait until July to see them and late August before I can get them back here and set them up!

I am sure the anticipation will kill you :)

I think the HSU's sound like a smart choice and they get excellent reviews. Dr. HSU is a standup guy from what I have read and the company has excellent customer service.

[lsiberian]

It is 2" or 2 inches :)

There owners manual recommends ideal placement at 27" though from the wall. I only had 8-9", that is why I went with a sealed design vs a ported design. I did call and speak to an HSU engineer and he did assure me that these speakers would work in my space as long as I had at least 2" of clearance. But I did not want to create any limitation since I do not have the fake wall built yet and the acoustically transparent screen in place. So I would not be able to send them back and get my money back within their guarantee window.

And in your case (since you will be in Japan) you might want to play it safe as well and go with a sealed design.

You are going through the exact same thing I did :)

That is why I went with the SVS speakers. At the end of the day they met all my room requirements and get rave reviews. If you want to read more about SVS this site was very helpful as well:
http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/svsound/

I think sealed designs are superior for bookshelves due to the slower rolloff.

[lsiberian]

I should say the 25-31PCi sub....not the PB12-Ultra......is now unavailable

Sam you should see what the shipping would be from HSU to japan. It might be much cheaper than you bringing them back. Plus you wouldn't have to worry about theft, lugging them around. ETC.

I strongly suggest you ship anything from America to Japan instead of flying it.

I've traveled a lot internationally and can tell you from experience that bad things happen to stuff being flown in an airplane. If you have a direct flight you may be ok, but if you have a connection your better off not flying these via luggage. Though I depending on weight your probably looking at a 200 for shipping depending on your location.

[browninggold]

Cannot let this thread stop....check these speakers out
http://www.aperionaudio.com/catalog/For-Small-Rooms,70.aspx

[ack_bak]

Cannot let this thread stop....check these speakers out
http://www.aperionaudio.com/catalog/For-Small-Rooms,70.aspx

I love the look of Aperion speakers. And I like the way they sound. But you pay extra to get that nicer look too vs an HSU, Emotiva, SVS, etc. A review I read recently nailed it IMHO. If the speaker looks really good on the outside chances are the company either cut corners with the components on the inside or they have to charge you more money. I think this is exactly the case with Aperion. I don't believe that they cut corners on either the look or the sound, but I think the SVS/HSU/Emotiva speakers are all a better value. And I also think the SVS and HSU subs are superior to the Aperion's hands down based on what I have heard.

That said, Aperion makes a solid speaker coupled with excellent customer service and their amazing demo policy (you don't have to pay anything if you do not like their speakers and want to send them back vs SVS and HSU which will charge you shipping costs). But you are definitely paying a little more to get that piece of mind. I have recommended Aperion several times in the past and one friend bought them and loved them.

[lsiberian]

I love the look of Aperion speakers. And I like the way they sound. But you pay extra to get that nicer look too vs an HSU, Emotiva, SVS, etc. A review I read recently nailed it IMHO. If the speaker looks really good on the outside chances are the company either cut corners with the components on the inside or they have to charge you more money. I think this is exactly the case with Aperion. I don't believe that they cut corners on either the look or the sound, but I think the SVS/HSU/Emotiva speakers are all a better value. And I also think the SVS and HSU subs are superior to the Aperion's hands down based on what I have heard.

That said, Aperion makes a solid speaker coupled with excellent customer service and their amazing demo policy (you don't have to pay anything if you do not like their speakers and want to send them back vs SVS and HSU which will charge you shipping costs). But you are definitely paying a little more to get that piece of mind. I have recommended Aperion several times in the past and one friend bought them and loved them.

Unless you take a speaker apart you can't know if they've cut corners or not. However Good enclosure will be large. A truly well built speaker can't be small. It's not possible because there is no way for a small enclosure to do all the things required to be hifi. This includes dampening with rockwool, bracing on every axis and a constraint layer. Most speakers are full of compromises because the costs of these type of enclosures is high and the size of the cabinets is big. For example I'm designing a box for a driver optimized for a 0.25 cu ft enclosure. Yet when tweaked for optimum performance. The dimensions can go up to 24 3/4"H x 19 1/4"W x 19 3/4"D

As you can see even a small amount of space becomes huge very quickly. Of course halfing dampenign can make it 20 3/4"H X 15 1/4"w x 17 3/4"d as you can see this makes it more palatable. And still is reasonably neutral, but it's still a compromise.

[samhfoley]

To get my espresso machine and grinder here I paid roughly 400 dollars and they weigh considerably less than all these speakers w/ sub. I wish I could still ship to Japan by sea via USPS, but the cut that service 2 years ago. My flight back to Japan is not direct. I transit in Taipei.

A lot of this decision boils down to both quality of product and size/weight. those HSU speakers and sub will also allow me to pack my new HTPC along with them and not have to pay any extra baggage charges (I don't think!) That's a pretty sweet deal.

I looked at Aperion. In fact my family lives in Oregon where their shop is so they were one of the first I thought of. So far though the HSU set-up looks to be the winner.

[lsiberian]

To get my espresso machine and grinder here I paid roughly 400 dollars and they weigh considerably less than all these speakers w/ sub. I wish I could still ship to Japan by sea via USPS, but the cut that service 2 years ago. My flight back to Japan is not direct. I transit in Taipei.

A lot of this decision boils down to both quality of product and size/weight. those HSU speakers and sub will also allow me to pack my new HTPC along with them and not have to pay any extra baggage charges (I don't think!) That's a pretty sweet deal.

I looked at Aperion. In fact my family lives in Oregon where their shop is so they were one of the first I thought of. So far though the HSU set-up looks to be the winner.

I say just go with it. Most people are satisfied with that level of quality. Plus your room is small and easily filled.

[samhfoley]

I now have 2 choices again,

HSU enthusiast 1 package for $1300 delivered or

Ascend Acoustics
(2) CBM-170's
CMT-340 center
(2) HTM-200's for surrounds

plus HSU VTF-1 sub for $1331 delivered **package comes in at 134 lbs (16lbs under weight for the plane as well)

That debate started after i read this forum comparing similarly priced bookshelf systems...
http://av123forum.com/showthread.php?t=18263

[ack_bak]

I now have 2 choices again,

HSU enthusiast 1 package for $1300 delivered or

Ascend Acoustics
(2) CBM-170's
CMT-340 center
(2) HTM-200's for surrounds

plus HSU VTF-1 sub for $1331 delivered **package comes in at 134 lbs (16lbs under weight for the plane as well)

That debate started after i read this forum comparing similarly priced bookshelf systems...
http://av123forum.com/showthread.php?t=18263

Those Ascends are also rear ported. I recommend contacting them and make sure they will play nicely within your constraints to your wall.

Tough call. I really considered the Ascends, and had they not been rear ported, I was considering grabbing 3 x the S340 speakers via their B-stock sale link on their front page.

[lsiberian]

I now have 2 choices again,

HSU enthusiast 1 package for $1300 delivered or

Ascend Acoustics
(2) CBM-170's
CMT-340 center
(2) HTM-200's for surrounds

plus HSU VTF-1 sub for $1331 delivered **package comes in at 134 lbs (16lbs under weight for the plane as well)

That debate started after i read this forum comparing similarly priced bookshelf systems...
http://av123forum.com/showthread.php?t=18263

I must caution buying speakers based on the reviews and opinions of others.
There are numerous potential issues that come into play when reviewing speakers. Placement and room have a huge effect on sound. Some rooms just aren't good with some speakers. This is the whole problem with retail speakers in general. You can design them for a room and you don't know what works best for them.

If a speaker sounds bright chances are you need to move it closer to the wall. Brightness is a result of baffle issues and those are usually eliminated by putting the speaker directly against the wall. This helps the LFE to form and match the volume of the tweeters.

I must suggest you try to listen to these speakers if you can. You can at least listen to speakers in Japan and see your preferences.

[samhfoley]

Those Ascends are also rear ported. I recommend contacting them and make sure they will play nicely within your constraints to your wall.

Tough call. I really considered the Ascends, and had they not been rear ported, I was considering grabbing 3 x the S340 speakers via their B-stock sale link on their front page.

That's the point, both the HSU and the Ascends are rear ported, but I can give all 3 fronts the requisite 2" of clearance that they recommend and the rear surrounds from Ascend aren't rear ported. Plus I am kind of shy of the HSU's as it says they are designed for "huge rooms" which my apartment most certainly isn't whereas the ascends are designed for small to mid sized rooms....

[ack_bak]

That's the point, both the HSU and the Ascends are rear ported, but I can give all 3 fronts the requisite 2" of clearance that they recommend and the rear surrounds from Ascend aren't rear ported. Plus I am kind of shy of the HSU's as it says they are designed for "huge rooms" which my apartment most certainly isn't whereas the ascends are designed for small to mid sized rooms....

Well, the HSU speakers may sound great at lower volume levels as well. You may want to try asking owners of these speakers in an owners thread at this forum or other forums.

But it would be hard to fault you for picking up the Ascends. And I understand your point regarding your small space. That is why I recommend the smaller and less inexpensive HSU sub. Anything larger could be overkill.

Does your apartment have concrete walls? I have this vision of a room with sliding wood walls layered with rice paper :)

[samhfoley]

Well, the HSU speakers may sound great at lower volume levels as well. You may want to try asking owners of these speakers in an owners thread at this forum or other forums.

But it would be hard to fault you for picking up the Ascends. And I understand your point regarding your small space. That is why I recommend the smaller and less inexpensive HSU sub. Anything larger could be overkill.

Does your apartment have concrete walls? I have this vision of a room with sliding wood walls layered with rice paper :)


No sliding rice paper walls in the apt. there is the sliding wood paneled doorway behind the sofa. The rest of the walls are studded with drywall/wallpaper. I uploaded a picture of the room back on page 1 or 2...

[samhfoley]

HSU enthusiast 1 package for $1300 delivered or

Ascend Acoustics
(2) CBM-170's
CMT-340 center
(2) HTM-200's for surrounds

plus HSU VTF-1 sub for $1331 delivered **package comes in at 134 lbs (16lbs under weight for the plane as well)

now I have a quote on the usher system as well

s 520 regular price $480 system price $375/pr
s 525 center regular price $460 system price $260
sw103 sub regular price $1020 system price $675

total 1685.00...a little on the steep end since I was originally budgeting 1000.00

[samhfoley]

too many mixed reviews online about the Ushers and worry about the HSU's being designed for HUGE rooms.

Which is better?


Ascend Acoustics
(2) CBM-170's
CMT-340 center
(2) HTM-200's for surrounds

plus HSU VTF-1 sub for $1331 delivered (134 lbs....16lbs under weight for the HTPC)


or

(3) CMT - 340's
(2) HTM-200's for surrounds
HSU STF-1 Subwoofer $1442 delivered (140 lbs, 10 xtra lbs to fit the HTPC...)

Do I need the adjustable sub (option 1) in my small space so I can better "tailor" my sound levels?

[ack_bak]

too many mixed reviews online about the Ushers and worry about the HSU's being designed for HUGE rooms.

Which is better?


Ascend Acoustics
(2) CBM-170's
CMT-340 center
(2) HTM-200's for surrounds

plus HSU VTF-1 sub for $1331 delivered (134 lbs....16lbs under weight for the HTPC)


or

(3) CMT - 340's
(2) HTM-200's for surrounds
HSU STF-1 Subwoofer $1442 delivered (140 lbs, 10 xtra lbs to fit the HTPC...)

Do I need the adjustable sub (option 1) in my small space so I can better "tailor" my sound levels?

I would go with option 2. The CMT-340's will be the better speakers and that STF-1 sub is more than enough sub for your current room and should serve you well into the future. Unless you are a bass-head I would recommend getting the superior main speakers.

[samhfoley]

1pr CMT-340 SE
1 CMT-340 SE center
1pr CBM-170 SE
1pr TP-24 stands

Only 250 bucks shipped to Japan! No carrying on the plane at all. Go Ascend!

[ack_bak]

1pr CMT-340 SE
1 CMT-340 SE center
1pr CBM-170 SE
1pr TP-24 stands

Only 250 bucks shipped to Japan! No carrying on the plane at all. Go Ascend!

Wow, that is really good news for you. I think you picked a winner with those Ascend speakers. Did you consider b-stock to save some more money?:
http://forum.ascendacoustics.com/showthread.php?p=31227#post31227

[lsiberian]

1pr CMT-340 SE
1 CMT-340 SE center
1pr CBM-170 SE
1pr TP-24 stands

Only 250 bucks shipped to Japan! No carrying on the plane at all. Go Ascend!

Wow, that is really good news for you. I think you picked a winner with those Ascend speakers. Did you consider b-stock to save some more money?:
http://forum.ascendacoustics.com/showthread.php?p=31227#post31227

Come on Ack he has standards:)

Get the new stuff with the price your paying.

[ack_bak]

Come on Ack he has standards:)

Get the new stuff with the price your paying.

Since it is Japan, you are probably right. But I have had very good luck in the past with b-stock items (ie you need a magnifying glass to see a minor imperfection).

[lsiberian]

Since it is Japan, you are probably right. But I have had very good luck in the past with b-stock items (ie you need a magnifying glass to see a minor imperfection).

Oh I prefer b-stock myself. I was thinking the same thing.

[samhfoley]

with the package discount for the whole package it was only about 70 dollars (130 since I upgraded to the 170's as rears) more to get new speakers so I thought that would be the way to go...and then there is the distance thing if something...anything should go wrong.

[ack_bak]

with the package discount for the whole package it was only about 70 dollars (130 since I upgraded to the 170's as rears) more to get new speakers so I thought that would be the way to go...and then there is the distance thing if something...anything should go wrong.

If the difference is only $70 then it is a nobrainer. When I was pricing out 3 Ascend 340's the b-stock speakers were considerably cheaper (I want to say like $200 or so).

[samhfoley]

yeah it was like 70 with the 200's as rears, and like 130 with the 170's as rears. Not much difference. They give you a nice package discount so buying a package new was easily the better bet in IMO.

[GomGom]

I didn't browse all pages to see what other people have recommended you. But I just saw this deal on AC4L and I thought it should be awesome since Mordaunt Short is a European company (British maybe?) and this packages is even cheaper than my 2.1 setup (bookshelves and a budget sub).
http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/PREM4002KIT/Marantz/SR4002-Mordaunt-Short-Premier-5.1-Home-Theater-Package-/1.html