Look at what UPS dropped off today!!

[gus6464]

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c9/gus6464/IMG_3228.jpg

More on listening impressions later but so far :D:D:D:D:D:D:D.

[Adam]

Woohoo!!! Congrats. I'm definitely looking forward to what you think of those.

[EJ1]

Nothing like dedicated 2-channel setup!

[ParadigmDawg]

They dropped off a yellow curtain???

[gus6464]

Just in case some are wondering which speakers are those they are the SVS MBS-01 1st generation.

[gus6464]

They dropped off a yellow curtain???

Hmm curtain is supposed to be green. :p

[ParadigmDawg]

Send it back then, I think it's yellow.Hmm curtain is supposed to be green. :p

[Davemcc]

Sweet. I'm looking forward to your listening impressions. They look good, though.

[jamie2112]

Very nice indeed Gus... How do they sound?

[mike c]

can't wait for your listening impressions.

a lot of people say they sound good, but im just not ready to drop 900 bucks on something i haven't heard. (yeah, curse of the internet direct)

[speakerman39]

Wow, gus way to go. Those speakers look like they mean business. Holy smokes, very sexy to boot! Man, can't wait till you post about your initial impressions. My bet is, they sound even better than they look even though they look fantastic! Congrats on the buy my friend. :):)

Cheers,

Phil

[mazersteven]

Boy O Boy...UPS gets all the credit. :cool:

http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z170/shattered_rosebud/Animals/pug.jpg

[Adam]

Everyone, Mazer's Far East spiritual journey is about to come to an end. He has mastered the techniques of the Samurai and Ninja, and it is almost time for his ascension to a whole new class of AH warrior.

Let us prepare ourselves to welcome another Spartan to the fold. They are few, and they are powerful.

[gus6464]

Boy O Boy...UPS gets all the credit. :cool:

http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z170/shattered_rosebud/Animals/pug.jpg

LOL I was going to leave that part as a surprise until I posted my listening impressions but you beat me to it.

The speakers are actually loaners from steven. :D

Thanks mazer!

Edit: BTW running some test tones right now and will post first impressions very soon.

[Adam]

The speakers are actually loaners from steven. :D

Aha! I was thinking to myself this afternoon that the only other person that I know that has those is Mazer. Now it's all making sense. :)

[gus6464]

Well I have been listening to the speakers for a couple of hours now with the following material:

Muse, Radiohead, Diana Krall, Coldplay, Dido, Nine Inch Nails, Laura Pausini, and Esperanza Spalding. This pretty much covers from Rock to Jazz and instrumental like NIN Ghosts. I have a DTS cd of the swedish national symphony I will listen to later but when it comes to classical music I don't have much of a trained ear. I won't write about that mumbo jumbo you guys read about when it comes to the songs since everyone listens to different stuff so I will just write about the characteristics of the speaker.

If I had to sum up the speaker in a sentence or less I would characterize them as "Dynaudio at more than half the price". I have listened extensively to the Dynaudio Focus 140 and a bit of the 220 in the past and the MBS-01 are just like them. These speakers are very neutral. The other two speakers I have had hooked up in my system were the Epos ELS-3 which are a very forward speaker, and the Dali Ikon 2 which are laid back in the midrange. The MBS-01 is right in between those two speakers in terms of midrange. The midrange is very detailed and clear like the Dali but sounds a lot better since it's not as recessed.

In terms of highs the tweeter is very clear and detailed but it's not as airy. There is just something about the ribbon on the Dali that I love. I don't know if it's because I prefer ribbons or what but if the MBS-01 had a ribbon with the characteristics of the Dali I would be in heaven. I have only heard them with the tweeters facing in and set to +3dB but I will try other positions and settings later.

One thing the MBS-01 completely excels at compared to other speakers I have heard is the bass. I ran some test tones and these speakers can put out 30Hz with no problem. I am not talking about low SPL at 30Hz either, but clear and completely audible at normal listening levels.

Imaging wise they are very good but don't disappear as good as the Dali. This is probably because of placement and toe-in so I will reserve my final judgement on this later since I still have to play with placement.

Last but not least is the cabinet. On this aspect I can say that they have by far the best built cabinet I have seen on a speaker <$2500. The only speaker I can compare to in cabinet construction is the B&W 805S but the MBS-01 is a lot heavier.

I would also like to add that these are the 1st generation version without the upgraded crossover. From what I hear the upgraded crossover makes the speaker sound a lot better so if it's true it makes them an even bigger bargain. I will post more impressions later as wife is waiting on me to leave but I had to get my first impressions in about this wonderful speaker.

[cvcgolf]

Never put those speaker grills on again..

[croseiv]

Very nice Gus!

[mike c]

a bit off topic:
anybody who's heard BOTH the Paradigm Studio 40 and MBS-01?

which did you prefer?

[adk highlander]

Thanks for the comments Gus and thanks to steven for lending them to you.:)

[mazersteven]

a bit off topic:
anybody who's heard BOTH the Paradigm Studio 40 and MBS-01?

which did you prefer?

I prefer the MBS-01's. IMO the tweeter is outstanding. The MSB-01's IMO also handle the low frequencies much better.

[Adam]

Thanks for the comments Gus and thanks to steven for lending them to you.:)

Ditto! It's great to see that members are helping each other out and lending gear for each other's enjoyment, and it was also great to read your initial impressions of those. I thought long and hard about getting a full set of those last December, and I still have interest in them.

Getting the upgraded crossovers is free, isn't it? Maybe for the return trip to Mazer, they could make a pit stop in Ohio for a little upgrade. :)

[speakerman39]

a bit off topic:
anybody who's heard BOTH the Paradigm Studio 40 and MBS-01?

which did you prefer?
Very good question Mike, except I would also like to include the Studio 20's? From the way Mazer describes their performance, I would not be surprised if the MBS-1's are just as good, if not, better. Just love the looks of the MBS-01's.

Cheers,

Phil

[gus6464]

I have heard the entire studio line and IMO the MBS-01 is a better speaker than the 20 or 40. The Paradigms are more forward and have a bit of their own sound signature. The SVS definitely hit lower with a tighter and punchier low end.

I have noticed though something strange going on in the midrange when listening to Muse. On Supermassive Black Hole the midrange gets a bit messy and it sounds like distortion is going on. It doesn't feel like the driver can't handle it because everything else sounds good so I think this might be the flaw in the crossover that SVS has upgraded.

My only complaint is that I wish the tweeter was more airy, and if the LTS-01 delivers on this aspect it will be one heck of a speaker. If SVS announces them with a ribbon tweeter you can sign me up. I can easily see them compete with the Dynaudio Contour or even the Confidence series.

[mike c]

i wish the LTS would pay more attention to looks as well. (as in: "i look like a very expensive speaker") not that the M series isn't already over my budget range.

[Warpdrv]

I have heard the entire studio line and IMO the MBS-01 is a better speaker than the 20 or 40. The Paradigms are more forward and have a bit of their own sound signature. The SVS definitely hit lower with a tighter and punchier low end.

I have noticed though something strange going on in the midrange when listening to Muse. On Supermassive Black Hole the midrange gets a bit messy and it sounds like distortion is going on. It doesn't feel like the driver can't handle it because everything else sounds good so I think this might be the flaw in the crossover that SVS has upgraded.

My only complaint is that I wish the tweeter was more airy, and if the LTS-01 delivers on this aspect it will be one heck of a speaker. If SVS announces them with a ribbon tweeter you can sign me up. I can easily see them compete with the Dynaudio Contour or even the Confidence series.

I have put the MBS up against the Studio 20, and I can't say that it was a "better speaker".... I can say it was different, but this was before the crossover revamp, and maybe things have changed.... You are describing things that I had the same issues with, I couldn't get them to sound right to me in my room, but who knows, maybe I'll have to try them again since they refined the crossover... everyone has their own preference in speakers.

i wish the LTS would pay more attention to looks as well. (as in: "i look like a very expensive speaker") not that the M series isn't already over my budget range.

What is your budget mike...? if you are torn between the 2, why don't you get a set of 20's and the new mbs's, I think you could easily get some 20's discounted from audiogon, and if shipping is an issue, I could help you work something out... Honestly you have to test the speakers right next to each other to get a feel for how they sound to you....

[bandphan]

I have a DTS cd of the swedish national symphony



DejaVu, I listened to those speakers with that same cd:D

[mike c]

What is your budget mike...? if you are torn between the 2, why don't you get a set of 20's and the new mbs's, I think you could easily get some 20's discounted from audiogon, and if shipping is an issue, I could help you work something out... Honestly you have to test the speakers right next to each other to get a feel for how they sound to you....

my dream bedroom speaker would be the MA PL100. but i was thinking, i could play around with a studio 40 v.4 available here for a fraction of the price. and if i'm not happy with it, my HT speakers are screaming to be replaced, i can move the studio 40's there :)

thanks for the offer btw.

re: MBS, unfortunately, the free trial of SVS won't work with me since i'm in the PH. i'm pretty easy to please though. :D

[Warpdrv]

my dream bedroom speaker would be the MA PL100. but i was thinking, i could play around with a studio 40 v.4 available here for a fraction of the price. and if i'm not happy with it, my HT speakers are screaming to be replaced, i can move the studio 40's there :)

thanks for the offer btw.

re: MBS, unfortunately, the free trial of SVS won't work with me since i'm in the PH. i'm pretty easy to please though. :D


I have a stinking feeling that with the Vast amount of money you have dumped into SVS, they would be more then willing to be a bit more flexible with YOU mike...

Talk to Ed or Ron and see what they have to say...

[mike c]

even if they extended the free trial period with free shipping to me (longshot IMO)

i wouldn't feel right about it, i can't let them catch shipping to as far away as me - i'll be forced to keep the speakers no matter what -> and i don't want that to happen.

[ParadigmDawg]

Just get the 40's, you will love them.

[Warpdrv]

even if they extended the free trial period with free shipping to me (longshot IMO)

i wouldn't feel right about it, i can't let them catch shipping to as far away as me - i'll be forced to keep the speakers no matter what -> and i don't want that to happen.

I think the Shipping would be on you, but they might be more flexible on the length of the trail period, just because of the time of shipping in your particular situation.... thats all I was saying...

And I also second Greg's thoughts.... The 40's are a great speaker.... I haven't heard them side by side with my S4's but with my past experience, the sigs are only a touch more refined.... and I love them...

[speakerman39]

I have heard the entire studio line and IMO the MBS-01 is a better speaker than the 20 or 40. The Paradigms are more forward and have a bit of their own sound signature. The SVS definitely hit lower with a tighter and punchier low end.

I have noticed though something strange going on in the midrange when listening to Muse. On Supermassive Black Hole the midrange gets a bit messy and it sounds like distortion is going on. It doesn't feel like the driver can't handle it because everything else sounds good so I think this might be the flaw in the crossover that SVS has upgraded.

My only complaint is that I wish the tweeter was more airy, and if the LTS-01 delivers on this aspect it will be one heck of a speaker. If SVS announces them with a ribbon tweeter you can sign me up. I can easily see them compete with the Dynaudio Contour or even the Confidence series.
Wow, gus this is good stuff. It sounds like SVS really outdone themselves on this one. Mazer feels the same way regarding the MBS-01's. One of these days, I may just have to check them out. It may be a while considering I am broke. :D:D Really can't even begin to imagine just how good the LTS line is going to be. ;);) Thanks for sharing gus.

Cheers,

Phil

[speakerman39]

I think the Shipping would be on you, but they might be more flexible on the length of the trail period, just because of the time of shipping in your particular situation.... thats all I was saying...

And I also second Greg's thoughts.... The 40's are a great speaker.... I haven't heard them side by side with my S4's but with my past experience, the sigs are only a touch more refined.... and I love them...
You know warp, for some odd reason I preferred the sound of the 20's to the 40's. It was something that I had a hard time putting my finger on it so to speak. However, after A/Bing them on many many occasions I always came to that same conclusion. Hence, the 20's to me just seemed a bit more articulate in the upper midbass region than the 40's. Dynamically speaking, the 40's were better. Still to this day, I just can't fully explain why I prefer the 20's. Have any ideas other than I am crazyyyyyy......LOL??????? :p:p

Cheers,

Phil

[Adam]

Have any ideas...?

Perhaps "Dollar Bill Phil" was looking for the best bang for the buck. :)

On second thought, no. You're just crazy. :D

[avaserfi]

It is very possible that panel resonance played a factor. The smaller Studio 20 recently reviewed in Stereophile is a relatively [to the price point] low resonance speaker. The Studio 40 likely has the same or similar build quality, but is a larger loudspeaker meaning substantially more effort is required to alleviate these resonances due to increases surface area. This vast increase in required work is very cost prohibitive and likely not implemented [the norm for speaker companies] in the Studio 40 which would lead one to suspect it is more resonant than the studio 20.

This is conjecture as I have not seen in depth measurements of the Studio 40 itself, but based on what I have seen from the build quality of the Paradigm Studio series speakers and the various models measured this would be my educated guess.

http://www.stereophile.com/standloudspeakers/508para/index4.html

[speakerman39]

Perhaps "Dollar Bill Phil" was looking for the best bang for the buck. :)

On second thought, no. You're just crazy. :D
LOL.........you know Adam you may have a point my friend. :D:D Sure isn't the first time I been told that........LOL!!! :cool::cool:

Cheers,

Phil

[speakerman39]

It is very possible that panel resonance played a factor. The smaller Studio 20 recently reviewed in Stereophile is a relatively [to the price point] low resonance speaker. The Studio 40 likely has the same or similar build quality, but is a larger loudspeaker meaning substantially more effort is required to alleviate these resonances due to increases surface area. This vast increase in required work is very cost prohibitive and likely not implemented [the norm for speaker companies] in the Studio 40 which would lead one to suspect it is more resonant than the studio 20.

This is conjecture as I have not seen in depth measurements of the Studio 40 itself, but based on what I have seen from the build quality of the Paradigm Studio series speakers and the various models measured this would be my educated guess.

http://www.stereophile.com/standloudspeakers/508para/index4.html
Never really thought of it that way, but you may be right. This may explain why I think the 20's are more articulate and punchier sounding. Thanks for offering some insights. So, see Adam I may not just be as crazy as some think-probably more so!!!!!!! :D:D

Cheers,

Phil

[gus6464]

Wow, gus this is good stuff. It sounds like SVS really outdone themselves on this one. Mazer feels the same way regarding the MBS-01's. One of these days, I may just have to check them out. It may be a while considering I am broke. :D:D Really can't even begin to imagine just how good the LTS line is going to be. ;);) Thanks for sharing gus.

Cheers,

Phil

While I don't think the MBS-01 is a perfect speaker, the reason I give them a lot of praise is because they compete above their price class. I can easily throw them in with speakers costing twice as much like the PSB M2, Dali Mentor 2, B&W 805S, Dynaudio Focus 140 and they will easily hold their own.

[speakerman39]

While I don't think the MBS-01 is a perfect speaker, the reason I give them a lot of praise is because they compete above their price class. I can easily throw them in with speakers costing twice as much like the PSB M2, Dali Mentor 2, B&W 805S, Dynaudio Focus 140 and they will easily hold their own.
Wow, I just have to get a listen to them then. Maybe down the road own some. Those are some very impressive speakers you are comparing the MBS-01's to. SVS knows what their doing. Kudos to them! Thanks for the info gus.

Cheers,

Phil

[gus6464]

Wow, I just have to get a listen to them then. Maybe down the road own some. Those are some very impressive speakers you are comparing the MBS-01's to. SVS knows what their doing. Kudos to them! Thanks for the info gus.

Cheers,

Phil

No problem. I think I am just spoiled by the Dali tweeter though. While the Dali get hot in the upper range, the air and separation they put out can get quite addicting. I am still trying to figure out if it's because of the ribbon or because of something else. I really wish I had a mic and mixer right now to measure the FR I get of the MBS-01 in my room. The room is rectangular and listening position is only 4ft away at the most so I doubt room interaction is affecting much.

[gus6464]

DejaVu, I listened to those speakers with that same cd:D

It's the same one you gave me the link to. :)

[Soundman]

Wow, I just have to get a listen to them then. Maybe down the road own some. Those are some very impressive speakers you are comparing the MBS-01's to. SVS knows what their doing. Kudos to them! Thanks for the info gus.

Cheers,

Phil

Wow! Just reading through this thread makes me think about auditioning a pair. I'm happy with my current HT speakers, but I thought about getting a pair for my PC in the other room.

[speakerman39]

No problem. I think I am just spoiled by the Dali tweeter though. While the Dali get hot in the upper range, the air and separation they put out can get quite addicting. I am still trying to figure out if it's because of the ribbon or because of something else. I really wish I had a mic and mixer right now to measure the FR I get of the MBS-01 in my room. The room is rectangular and listening position is only 4ft away at the most so I doubt room interaction is affecting much.
Nice gus, now I want to hear the Dali's too. :p:p There is no doubt I need to hear the SVS MBS-01's as soon as I can. I hope to have my tv paid for soon and may make a speaker change then. Of course, it will probably be next Spring of after before such a change takes place. Thanks once again for your thoughts on the MBS-01's.

Cheers,

Phil

[Nuance AH]

A bunch of us (including warp) spent a bunch of time with the SVS 5.0 package, including the 01's. You can check out the group impressions in the official Wisconsin GTG thread over at AVS.

In short, I am very curious how gen 2 will sound. From what I've heard they have completely revamped the crossover, which is a good thing IMO.

[gus6464]

I have been reading the Wisconsin GTG thread over at AVS and there are some complaints about the MBS-01 which I am not hearing in my room. Everyone seems to mention boomy bass but I just can't hear it. Also all the other bookshelves that were heard have F3's at least 10Hz above the SVS. I have heard the Dynaudio Contour S.14 and it does not go very low at all. Could it be that the boomy bass being heard was just the ability of the MBS to go lower than the rest so everyone wasn't used to it?

The MBS are voiced very similar to the Dynaudio Focus (neutral) which could explain why everyone thought the midrange was recessed compared to Digms which are forward speakers like the Rockets (from what I have read). Dynaudio speakers tend to be a very acquired taste because of their very neutral nature so it's always best to audition. I own or have owned very laid back speakers (Dali) and very forward speakers (Epos, Mirage).

BTW I am not looking to start an argument over this so this is just my opinion.

[Adam]

Gus, with your experience, would you be able to compare the MBS-01s to any NHT speakers (preferably the 1.5 model)? Just curious.

Thanks.

[gus6464]

Gus, with your experience, would you be able to compare the MBS-01s to any NHT speakers (preferably the 1.5 model)? Just curious.

Thanks.

I have never been able to hear an NHT speaker. There is a dealer in Austin but they don't have any for audition.

I honestly think that anyone looking for some speakers should listen to Dynaudio and use them as point of reference. From listening to the Focus line one can see if they would prefer either a forward or laid back speaker.

I have been listening to some horrible recordings I have and the MBS sound like crap. Whereas other tracks like the DTS recording of the Swedish National Orchestra sound absolutely wonderful. I really hope the new SVS crossover didn't make the speaker sound more forward because it would really be a shame.

[croseiv]

Sure does sound like a great speaker. Reading this thread really makes me wnat some. I like the finish on them too. Blu-ray plyer first, then new receiver, so maybe sometime before I retire....:D

[gus6464]

Sure does sound like a great speaker. Reading this thread really makes me wnat some. I like the finish on them too. Blu-ray plyer first, then new receiver, so maybe sometime before I retire....:D

If you want to get an idea of how they sound see if there are any Dynaudio dealers in your area. The Focus 140 and MBS-01 sound very similar.

[Nuance AH]

I have been reading the Wisconsin GTG thread over at AVS and there are some complaints about the MBS-01 which I am not hearing in my room. Everyone seems to mention boomy bass but I just can't hear it. Also all the other bookshelves that were heard have F3's at least 10Hz above the SVS. I have heard the Dynaudio Contour S.14 and it does not go very low at all. Could it be that the boomy bass being heard was just the ability of the MBS to go lower than the rest so everyone wasn't used to it?

The MBS are voiced very similar to the Dynaudio Focus (neutral) which could explain why everyone thought the midrange was recessed compared to Digms which are forward speakers like the Rockets (from what I have read). Dynaudio speakers tend to be a very acquired taste because of their very neutral nature so it's always best to audition. I own or have owned very laid back speakers (Dali) and very forward speakers (Epos, Mirage).

BTW I am not looking to start an argument over this so this is just my opinion.
My main complaint wasn't the bass at all, but for what it's worth I listened to them in two different rooms. My issue was more with the midrange and crossover. They were a completely unpredictable speaker, sometimes sounding "just right" and others way off base. This with similar listening material no less. However, we were listening to the 01's mainly, and they were far from "neutral," sounding nothing like the Dyns. My opinion, of course.

I also am not trying to start an argument. I do look forward to hearing what the second revision sounds like. SVS revamped them and seemed to admit they could have done better, so it should be interesting.

P.S. My comments about the SVS speakers were not made in comparison to the other speakers at the GTG. I've listen to dozens of speakers, but my reference is live sound, and that is what I used to judge what I heard. I did not like them, but I'm just one guy. YMMV.

[Adam]

Really can't even begin to imagine just how good the LTS line is going to be.

Tales of the one called "the Speaker Man" are known far and wide. Stories of him are told to young speakers everywhere. Even before they receive their veneer, they know of him. Dreams of upgraded crossovers and gold binding posts dance in their heads. As speaker designs mature, though, they tend to become more skeptical, thinking that their manufacturers are the ones who really put in the extras.

Likewise, the LTS line is often spoken of, but so far never seen. They bring excitement, but it is tempered by the thought they might just be a paper design, so far from reality.

This is how I envision Phil's first encounter with the new LTS bookshelves (slightly altered, of course):

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Knidq8QClHw&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Knidq8QClHw&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

[mazersteven]

New Crossover

http://forums.soundandvisionmag.com/audiovideo/board/message?board.id=40&thread.id=90463

[speakerman39]

Tales of the one called "the Speaker Man" are known far and wide. Stories of him are told to young speakers everywhere. Even before they receive their veneer, they know of him. Dreams of upgraded crossovers and gold binding posts dance in their heads. As speaker designs mature, though, they tend to become more skeptical, thinking that their manufacturers are the ones who really put in the extras.

Likewise, the LTS line is often spoken of, but so far never seen. They bring excitement, but it is tempered by the thought they might just be a paper design, so far from reality.

This is how I envision Phil's first encounter with the new LTS bookshelves (slightly altered, of course):

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Knidq8QClHw&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Knidq8QClHw&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>
LOL.........you know Adam this is right on! I mean, why not just write a book and maybe we can make millions. ;);) Just think of how many more Ultras that would buy. Heck, might even be able to buy our own LTS factory. :D:D Who knows, it could even work into a movie deal. :p:p Hope all is well my friend.

Cheers,

Phil

[Adam]

New Crossover

http://forums.soundandvisionmag.com/audiovideo/board/message?board.id=40&thread.id=90463

Hmmm. Interesting information. I back off on my nudge to get the new crossovers.

[Nuance AH]

New Crossover

http://forums.soundandvisionmag.com/audiovideo/board/message?board.id=40&thread.id=90463

Hmm...perhaps I won't like this version either.

After reading what SVS had to say about these now being "great" speakers instead of "good" speakers, I expected better measurements though the midrange. However, we all know great measurements don't a great speaker make.

[gus6464]

New Crossover

http://forums.soundandvisionmag.com/audiovideo/board/message?board.id=40&thread.id=90463

That's sad that they decided to bump the midrange up. Pretty much the best thing I like about the old crossover is now gone with the new ones.

[gus6464]

Hmm...perhaps I won't like this version either.

After reading what SVS had to say about these now being "great" speakers instead of "good" speakers, I expected better measurements though the midrange. However, we all know great measurements don't a great speaker make.

Actually it just means that most people prefer a colored speaker to an accurate one. This quote by IG over at soundandvision pretty much sums it all up.

"This is purely speculation, but I think most of the vocal enthusiasts simply don't truly listen to music. Rather, I get the impression most listen to their gear. There was nothing very "exciting" about the old version of the MBS-01 because what you heard with them was music. The new MBS-01 is almost exactly as Ed and Ron have described, more "detailed" (due to the slight cut in the midrange and the boost in the treble) with more "sheen" (boost in the treble). Neither of those characteristcs relfect realism or accuracy."

[mazersteven]

What is great if you already own a pair of these is. SVS will send you the new crossover. Then you can decide which sound you prefer. No penalty, no foul.

[Nuance AH]

Actually it just means that most people prefer a colored speaker to an accurate one. This quote by IG over at soundandvision pretty much sums it all up.

"This is purely speculation, but I think most of the vocal enthusiasts simply don't truly listen to music. Rather, I get the impression most listen to their gear. There was nothing very "exciting" about the old version of the MBS-01 because what you heard with them was music. The new MBS-01 is almost exactly as Ed and Ron have described, more "detailed" (due to the slight cut in the midrange and the boost in the treble) with more "sheen" (boost in the treble). Neither of those characteristcs relfect realism or accuracy."

Interesting. I fall into the music lover category, so I'd definitely prefer the speakers to just disappear and have the music before me. Words like "disappear" and "transparent" describe what I like. Unfortunately the version one 01's didn't do that for me. I heard speakers trying (but not achieving) to reproduce music rather than just the music...if that makes sense. I prefer accuracy. :)

Still, I think it's cool SVS is sending out the crossovers to the owners; that is customer service. ;)

P.S. I love SVS subwoofers!

[gus6464]

Interesting. I fall into the music lover category, so I'd definitely prefer the speakers to just disappear and have the music before me. Words like "disappear" and "transparent" describe what I like. Unfortunately the version one 01's didn't do that for me. I heard speakers trying (but not achieving) to reproduce music rather than just the music...if that makes sense. I prefer accuracy. :)

Still, I think it's cool SVS is sending out the crossovers to the owners; that is customer service. ;)

P.S. I love SVS subwoofers!

You seem to be contradicting yourself there. You say you prefer accuracy but you say the MBS-01 didn't "do it" for you. If a speaker is accurate then it is already doing what it is supposed to be doing. If a speaker makes a specific thing jump out in the music then it is not actually accurate.

[mazersteven]

P.S. I love SVS subwoofers!

I knew there was something I liked about you. http://www.pleasedsheep.com/forums/images/smilies/love-smiley-011.gif

[Nuance AH]

You seem to be contradicting yourself there. You say you prefer accuracy but you say the MBS-01 didn't "do it" for you. If a speaker is accurate then it is already doing what it is supposed to be doing. If a speaker makes a specific thing jump out in the music then it is not actually accurate.

A speaker that measures "accurate" won't automatically give an "accurate" reproduction of the music. You should know that. Measurements are only one portion of engineering a speaker. ;)

A speaker that has a midrange null and and an obvious crossover flaw does not "do it" for me; you're right about that. My reference is live music. I want a speaker that simply passes the audio signal along without changing or coloring it. Of course, there is no perfect speaker so I simply must find a speaker that exceeds in my important categories and who's flaws I can live with. I have done that as of recent.

So no, I didn't contradict myself. I don't like the original 01's because the have their own "sound" rather than being truly transparent. If this wasn't the case then SVS wouldn't have re-engineered them, not to mention everyone but one person at the GTG wouldn't have felt the same way about them. We (I) just didn't like them. Fortunately SVS seemed to have taken the consumers criticism seriously (including ours) because they re-engineered them and are offering some of them free upgrades and a chance to audition the new revision for free. Talk about customer service! They get a big thumbs up from me for that one. I mean, who does that? Who actually listens to the consumers and fixes any issues the majority had with them? SVS tried, didn't quite succeed, so they listened and tried again. And that's why I'll continue to recommend them.

I love SVS but I am not going to lie and say I liked a flawed speaker. This is why I am so anxious to hear the new crossover! Measurements alone do no a good speaker make (although mine measure very flat through the FR, so I am blessed to have gotten the best of both worlds :)). Speaker of measurements, were they taken in an anechoic chamber, or were those in-room measurements? If it was the latter this is all moot because the speakers could have taken on the "flavor" of the room.

[Nuance AH]

I knew there was something I liked about you. http://www.pleasedsheep.com/forums/images/smilies/love-smiley-011.gif

:D Haha - thanks.

[mazersteven]

My reference is live music. I want a speaker that simply passes the audio signal along without changing or coloring it. Of course, there is no perfect speaker

Are you sure there is no perfect speaker?

http://www.mackie.com/products/HR824/specs.html

[Nuance AH]

Are you sure there is no perfect speaker?

http://www.mackie.com/products/HR824/specs.html

:D Yes, I am sure...well, at least not a universally perfect speaker amongst the majority. I found my "perfect" speaker.

[mazersteven]

Have you ever given the Mackie HR824's an audition?

[Nuance AH]

Have you ever given the Mackie HR824's an audition?

Not the new revision, no. Actually, I think I head the 6 series now that I think about it; it was about 2 years ago. The location was far from ideal, however, being a guitar shop.

You like the Mackie's? I read and hear a lot of good things about them. Many say they are the best speaker's in their price range for near-field listening.

[mazersteven]

Not the new revision, no. Actually, I think I head the 6 series now that I think about it; it was about 2 years ago. The location was far from ideal, however, being a guitar shop.

You like the Mackie's? I read and hear a lot of good things about them. Many say they are the best speaker's in their price range for near-field listening.

Not only near-field listening. But also a good HT speaker.

I haven't auditioned the new version of the 824's. But I purchased the original 824's. I highly recommend them for a 2 channel system.

[gus6464]

A speaker that measures "accurate" won't automatically give an "accurate" reproduction of the music. You should know that. Measurements are only one portion of engineering a speaker. ;)

A speaker that has a midrange null and and an obvious crossover flaw does not "do it" for me; you're right about that. My reference is live music. I want a speaker that simply passes the audio signal along without changing or coloring it. Of course, there is no perfect speaker so I simply must find a speaker that exceeds in my important categories and who's flaws I can live with. I have done that as of recent.

So no, I didn't contradict myself. I don't like the original 01's because the have their own "sound" rather than being truly transparent. If this wasn't the case then SVS wouldn't have re-engineered them, not to mention everyone but one person at the GTG wouldn't have felt the same way about them. We (I) just didn't like them. Fortunately SVS seemed to have taken the consumers criticism seriously (including ours) because they re-engineered them and are offering some of them free upgrades and a chance to audition the new revision for free. Talk about customer service! They get a big thumbs up from me for that one. I mean, who does that? Who actually listens to the consumers and fixes any issues the majority had with them? SVS tried, didn't quite succeed, so they listened and tried again. And that's why I'll continue to recommend them.

I love SVS but I am not going to lie and say I liked a flawed speaker. This is why I am so anxious to hear the new crossover! Measurements alone do no a good speaker make (although mine measure very flat through the FR, so I am blessed to have gotten the best of both worlds :)). Speaker of measurements, were they taken in an anechoic chamber, or were those in-room measurements? If it was the latter this is all moot because the speakers could have taken on the "flavor" of the room.

SVS changed the crossover in order to protect the tweeter. Not because they thought it would sound better even though that is what they want everyone to believe.

Also the measurements of the v.1 MBS-01 were done outside, which just as Ilkka's sub measurements simulate an anechoic chamber.

Also out of curiosity which are the most accurate and neutral speakers you have ever heard? (although I am pretty sure I know what the answer is going to be)

[Nuance AH]

SVS changed the crossover in order to protect the tweeter. Not because they thought it would sound better even though that is what they want everyone to believe.

Also the measurements of the v.1 MBS-01 were done outside, which just as Ilkka's sub measurements simulate an anechoic chamber.

Also out of curiosity which are the most accurate and neutral speakers you have ever heard? (although I am pretty sure I know what the answer is going to be)
It doesn't really matter; I didn't like the speakers, and SVS did admit they weren't what they should have been, which explains a lot in my opinion. I've also read some comments (via e-mail) from the designers themselves that aren't available to the general public, so trust me, they knew they messed up the first time. It's my opinion (among many others), so why are you taking it so personal? Speakers are subjective, and no one speaker will please everyone. I am not insulting you by expressing my opinion. And remember, I listened to the 01's, not the booksehlf speakers you have (well, they were there, but I didn't put enough time in with them to comment). I'm not here to argue, so we can just agree to disagree.

The most accurate speakers I've heard were the Vandersteen 5A's. I'd own them if I could afford them. Bet you didn't expect me to say that. ;)

[Warpdrv]

The most accurate speakers I've heard were the Vandersteen 5A's. I'd own them if I could afford them. Bet you didn't expect me to say that. ;)


I did..... :p


SVS changed the crossover in order to protect the tweeter. Not because they thought it would sound better even though that is what they want everyone to believe.
Hey Gus...
I have not seen this information at all, could you point me in the direction where this was stated buddy... I'm curious, as I have never heard this once in direct talks with SVS about the replacements of the crossovers.


Nuance, you did have a chance to hear the bookshelves unless you left the room, but they were part of the Shootout, but it was not an extended period of time, as we were flipping back and forth between the different speakers that were present.

[gus6464]

I did..... :p



Hey Gus...
I have not seen this information at all, could you point me in the direction where this was stated buddy... I'm curious, as I have never heard this once in direct talks with SVS about the replacements of the crossovers.


Nuance, you did have a chance to hear the bookshelves unless you left the room, but they were part of the Shootout, but it was not an extended period of time, as we were flipping back and forth between the different speakers that were present.

If you go to the sound and vision forums there are a couple of threads on the subject. One guy was told by SVS that if he decides to keep the v.1 crossover and not upgrade that they would only replace the tweeter once. This info plus the actual measurements of the AirCirc one can easily see what is going on.

Here is the measurement of the AirCirc
http://www.zaphaudio.com/tweetermishmash/compare.html
Check out the FR and HD measurements. At 1500Hz the tweeter is right at the threshold. Also IG has both the v.1 and v.2 and he said that the new crossover makes the speaker sounds a bit harsh and it's because of the mid woofer being crossed too high. My Dali also exhibit this characteristic and it's not because of the tweeter but because of the mid woofer being crossed too high at 3500Hz.

Ikon 2 - 3500Hz
Mentor 2 - 3400Hz
Helicon 300 - 3400Hz

I didn't really understand this at first but Ryan explained it to me. I took note of all the speakers I found to be harsh sounding or hot and low and behold all of them had the mid woofer crossed over at 3000Hz. What was even weirder was the the shrillest speaker I have ever heard (B&W 705) is crossed over at 3700Hz.

Then here are two speakers which sound very smooth throughout the entire FR.

Dynaudio Focus 140 - 2400Hz
PSB Platinum M2 - 2200Hz

[Nuance AH]

Nuance, you did have a chance to hear the bookshelves unless you left the room, but they were part of the Shootout, but it was not an extended period of time, as we were flipping back and forth between the different speakers that were present.
That's true, but I wasn't paying much attention. I think I was shmoozing. :D

gus6464 - again, I meant to offense. I think it's great that you love your SVS's. I meant no harm.

[gus6464]

That's true, but I wasn't paying much attention. I think I was shmoozing. :D

gus6464 - again, I meant to offense. I think it's great that you love your SVS's. I meant no harm.

The SVS are not even mine. They are loaners from mazer. My speakers are Dali. So as you can see I came into this with no bias towards them.

[jsholland70]

That should be a lot of fun, Enjoy!