Speaker Designer, just saying hi as a new member

[Spkr_Bldr]

Hey guys, I'm not sure why I've never joined here ... but I fixed that problem about 30 minutes ago! I've been a long time avsforum member, but have never liked that place at all ... way too much drama and bickering for me. It sure looks like there's a more mature audience here, if so I look forward to being a consistent contributor!

Anyway, I've been designing and building speakers for a relatively short time - about 4 years, but I jumped in head first and have really immersed myself in it. Last year I took a pretty unique speaker to the RMAF through a partnership with Balanced Power Technologies.

It used a ScanSpeak 6600 AirCirc in a 10" custom milled waveguide, Seas W22EX Mag cone open baffle, and a Focal 10" in a dual-chamber aperiodic enclosure. The waveguide let me cross at 740hz and have lower distortion across the board than on a flat baffle at 1500hz, and a W22EX is magical when ran only up to around 1000hz - it's perfect in that range.

I had some great reviews after the show, but then had a firearms accident and had to take a few months off from building ... and consequently lost all the orders I got from the show. Now I've decided that's a little too ambitious for a first time attempt at a commercial product, so I'm working on something simpler this year. I don't want to violate any advertising rules, so won't discuss that until I hear back from the Admin staff.

But why I'm introducing myself is just to say I'm looking forward to contributing here in the Speaker section. I'll try to answer technical questions as best I can, and help educate people on the ins and outs of design and construction. It wasn't more than a few years ago I though my Wharfedale Evo 40's were the s**t, so I'd like to help people who really want to experience hi-end learn what it takes to find it for themselves!

[mike c]

welcome to Audioholics!

"you will be assimilated, your technological and biological distinctiveness shall be added to our own. resistance is futile." :)
(sorry, i've been watching star trek voyager the past few weeks)

[Adam]

Welcome to the forum! I look forward to reading your insights on speaker design. Sorry to hear about your accident. Hopefully the few months that you took off didn't involve jail time... ;)

Again, welcome!

[Spkr_Bldr]

welcome to Audioholics!

"you will be assimilated, your technological and biological distinctiveness shall be added to our own. resistance is futile." :)
(sorry, i've been watching star trek voyager the past few weeks)

Thanks man, I'm watching Next Food Network Star with my wife ... well, she's watching it and I'm just in the room. I keep telling her that Lisa Garza chic looks like a Romulan and she just looks at me like WTF? Haha, a trek fan would see it in a second!

[Spkr_Bldr]

Welcome to the forum! I look forward to reading your insights on speaker design. Sorry to hear about your accident. Hopefully the few months that you took off didn't involve jail time... ;)

Again, welcome!

Ha, no jail time ... just a lot of healing time. And an injury to my hand, which I'm dead in the water without. All worked out fine though, and I learned a pretty darn valuable lesson!

[mazersteven]

Ha, no jail time ... just a lot of healing time. And an injury to my hand, which I'm dead in the water without. All worked out fine though, and I learned a pretty darn valuable lesson!

Nice story. But why don't you tell us what really happened. :rolleyes:

http://www.bible.ca/marriage/angry-wife.jpg

[Spkr_Bldr]

Nice story. But why don't you tell us what really happened. :rolleyes:

Haha, how about a vague description - cylinder gap on a .460 S&W destroyed left thumb and chewed up palm :eek:

I have some brutally graphic pics, but here isn't the place at all.

[Adam]

Haha, how about a vague description - cylinder gap on a .460 S&W destroyed left thumb and chewed up palm :eek:

Ouch. Oh, man, I'm sorry.


I have some brutally graphic pics, but here isn't the place at all.

Hey, we're a tough crowd. We can handle it. Heck, most of us have seen images like the one below and kept our lunch down. :)

http://static.howstuffworks.com/gif/productImages/7/7/00000102177-BoseAcoustimass16hometheaterspeakersystem-large.jpeg

[Just kidding...please don't post them!]

[Spkr_Bldr]

Hey, we're a tough crowd. We can handle it. Heck, most of us have seen images like the one below and kept our lunch down. :)

http://static.howstuffworks.com/gif/productImages/7/7/00000102177-BoseAcoustimass16hometheaterspeakersystem-large.jpeg

[Just kidding...please don't post them!]

Haha, I won't dare post them ... but you can find them if you're morbid. I'm the founder of rx7club.com, I posted them there as BOOSTD 7 back in January when it happened.

Live and learn right? Now I have a thumb that's a great conversation starter!

[allargon]

Thanks man, I'm watching Next Food Network Star with my wife ... well, she's watching it and I'm just in the room. I keep telling her that Lisa Garza chic looks like a Romulan and she just looks at me like WTF? Haha, a trek fan would see it in a second!

I thought Vulcan, but pretty much the same drift. I think Aaron's going to take it all. It's definitely between him and Lisa.

Welcome, Speaker Designer!

[Mw`]

Interesting designs...welcome!

[majorloser]

...It sure looks like there's a more mature audience here, if so I look forward to being a consistent contributor!...


Are you sure you got the right place??? :confused:

Well, welcome to the forum anyways :)

[Spkr_Bldr]

Are you sure you got the right place??? :confused:

Well, welcome to the forum anyways :)

Haha, yea ... maybe not the wine and cheese club, but compared to avsforum it might as well be!

Speaking of interesting designs, what would you think about a speaker with Magico Mini type construction (with improvements), but that could be had starting at around $800/pair? Check out the attachments. The plan is to make the line run from about $800 up to $3000/pair. That's what I'll be taking to RMAF this year. Sexy huh ;)

[j_garcia]

Hehehe, they look like cross-sections of Nohrs. VERY nice looking though.

Welcome to AH!

[Spkr_Bldr]

Hehehe, they look like cross-sections of Nohrs. VERY nice looking though.

Welcome to AH!

Yea, I guess the cross section does ... just not a ugly otherwise, haha.

There will be countless posibilities based on that construction. One I'm working on will be a MTMWW, with the WW being 2 8" Peerless HDS Nomex woofers in the enclosure, and the MTM being open baffle with Peerless HDS 5.25's and either a Seas DXT waveguide tweeter or my own custom waveguide. It could be done for under $1500 and would eat Songtowers for lunch.

[The Dukester]

Welcome to the forum!:) Looking forward to reading more about your work and hearing your opinions. A .460? OUCH! That's a lot of gun! I recently bought a Colt Gold Cup .45 that I'm chomping at the bit to bust a few caps with.;)

[TLS Guy]

Welcome to the forums.

Nice to have another speaker builder on board. Check the link on my signature,.

If you go with open baffle on the MTM, make sure you have a fully active design. Passive crossovers are not a good solution for open baffle designs, as too much Eq is required.

[gus6464]

Haha, yea ... maybe not the wine and cheese club, but compared to avsforum it might as well be!

Speaking of interesting designs, what would you think about a speaker with Magico Mini type construction (with improvements), but that could be had starting at around $800/pair? Check out the attachments. The plan is to make the line run from about $800 up to $3000/pair. That's what I'll be taking to RMAF this year. Sexy huh ;)

I am absolutely loving that cabinet design. Hopefully I will get to go to RMAF this year so if I do I will be definitely checking out your room.

[Spkr_Bldr]

Welcome to the forums.

Nice to have another speaker builder on board. Check the link on my signature,.

If you go with open baffle on the MTM, make sure you have a fully active design. Passive crossovers are not a good solution for open baffle designs, as too much Eq is required.

Cool gallery, there's a lot of wood in that room, wow!

Last year's RMAF was an open baffle using a Seas W22EX, and it didn't need any active EQ. I've done open baffles with Hi-Vi D6.8, Peerless Exclusive nomex cones, AudioTech c-queenze, GR Research drivers ... a lot. And none have needed active EQ work. None of the passive crossovers were overly complex either. The crossover for my SS6600 in a 10" waveguide though was very complex!

[TLS Guy]

Cool gallery, there's a lot of wood in that room, wow!

Last year's RMAF was an open baffle using a Seas W22EX, and it didn't need any active EQ. I've done open baffles with Hi-Vi D6.8, Peerless Exclusive nomex cones, AudioTech c-queenze, GR Research drivers ... a lot. And none have needed active EQ work. None of the passive crossovers were overly complex either. The crossover for my SS6600 in a 10" waveguide though was very complex!

Unless the front baffle is wide or you have a deep open backed box, there has to be significant acoustic roll off, that requires Eq.

[Spkr_Bldr]

Unless the front baffle is wide or you have a deep open backed box, there has to be significant acoustic roll off, that requires Eq.

I realize that's they way it works in theory, but much less so in practice.

[allargon]

Speaking of interesting designs, what would you think about a speaker with Magico Mini type construction (with improvements), but that could be had starting at around $800/pair? Check out the attachments. The plan is to make the line run from about $800 up to $3000/pair. That's what I'll be taking to RMAF this year. Sexy huh ;)

Sexy if you have some nice veneers like Tigerwood, Santos Mahogany, Malaysian Rubberwood and other stuff to really make it pop. I do like the look of those cabinets.

[Spkr_Bldr]

Sexy if you have some nice veneers like Tigerwood, Santos Mahogany, Malaysian Rubberwood and other stuff to really make it pop. I do like the look of those cabinets.

One of my Dad's lifelong friends is an exotic woods importer ... so yea, I have a pretty large stockpile of incredible veneers to choose from :cool:

[mtrycrafts]

Ouch. Oh, man, I'm sorry.




Hey, we're a tough crowd. We can handle it. Heck, most of us have seen images like the one below and kept our lunch down. :)

http://static.howstuffworks.com/gif/productImages/7/7/00000102177-BoseAcoustimass16hometheaterspeakersystem-large.jpeg

[Just kidding...please don't post them!]

Yes, but that took lots of training and discipline:D

[Spkr_Bldr]

My CNC guy is also cutting pieces for a center channel of the same construction. Imagine one of these on it's side, with the bottom cut flat instead of curved, and the front baffle angled up at a 5 degree tilt, then the same curved profile on the top.

I know most here don't do 2-channel, so having a matching center is important.

I'm doing some testing with different woofers, and having trouble deciding what would be the most attactive lower-cost option. Would you guys rather have something 84-85db sensitive that goes a hair lower and fuller on bass and be $50-$100 cheaper per pair? Or would you prefer something 86-87db sensitive with a hair less bass but also a hair more detail and be the same $50-$100 more expensive per pair?

Decisions, decisions ;)

[Sheep]

So you're a rotary lover eh?

My buddy has an FD3S from Japan (Twin Turbo). Very fast car.

Sheeptar

[Warpdrv]

My CNC guy is also cutting pieces for a center channel of the same construction. Imagine one of these on it's side, with the bottom cut flat instead of curved, and the front baffle angled up at a 5 degree tilt, then the same curved profile on the top.

I know most here don't do 2-channel, so having a matching center is important.

I'm doing some testing with different woofers, and having trouble deciding what would be the most attactive lower-cost option. Would you guys rather have something 84-85db sensitive that goes a hair lower and fuller on bass and be $50-$100 cheaper per pair? Or would you prefer something 86-87db sensitive with a hair less bass but also a hair more detail and be the same $50-$100 more expensive per pair?

Decisions, decisions ;)

If your talking about designing these for HT market, then I would suggest you worry a little less about how deep they go, and concentrate on better detail and accuracy, as most people will be working with a sub crossed over @ 80hz give or take...
So if you could get them to roll off around 50hz, or even 40hz you'd be doing great...


BTW, those are very very nice looking cabinets, I would say some of the best looking I have seen...

What is the intended full width and height of them... ?

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=6115&d=1216070939

[Rickster71]

I'd go with the 85-87db. As most will use a sub.
Are you making several models based on the same overall design; only adding more sections to obtain more bass?
Similar to the way Paradigm does their Signature line S1 thru S8.
That may solve your dilemma of bass versus accuracy.


The machined area you have in each side wall; is that to add some type of dampening material, to combat cab resonance?
They look very good so far, good luck!
Rick

[Gimpy Ric]

Welcome aboard! Sweet stuff your building :cool:.

[highfihoney]

My CNC guy is also cutting pieces for a center channel of the same construction. Imagine one of these on it's side, with the bottom cut flat instead of curved, and the front baffle angled up at a 5 degree tilt, then the same curved profile on the top.

I know most here don't do 2-channel, so having a matching center is important.

I'm doing some testing with different woofers, and having trouble deciding what would be the most attactive lower-cost option. Would you guys rather have something 84-85db sensitive that goes a hair lower and fuller on bass and be $50-$100 cheaper per pair? Or would you prefer something 86-87db sensitive with a hair less bass but also a hair more detail and be the same $50-$100 more expensive per pair?

Decisions, decisions ;)

Both sensitivity figures you gave are very low,to the average HT enthusiast those numbers represent amp draining loads,budget receivers will now do well if those are ran full range without a sub.

[Spkr_Bldr]

I'd go with the 85-87db. As most will use a sub.
Are you making several models based on the same overall design; only adding more sections to obtain more bass?
Similar to the way Paradigm does their Signature line S1 thru S8.
That may solve your dilemma of bass versus accuracy.


The machined area you have in each side wall; is that to add some type of dampening material, to combat cab resonance?
They look very good so far, good luck!
Rick

Yea, kinda ... the cabinet is just a stack of vertical slices. I can of course add more slices to get the volume where it needs to be for any particular driver combination - and put flat pieces in the stack if I need to make a 3 way with a separate sealed mid chamber.

I see a whole line of speakers spinning off from this design. The specific questions I'm asking are in regards to the entry level system, which will be a sub-$1000/pair 2-way bookshelf. The drivers I've evaluated and like are the Hi-Vi D6.8 (lower sensitivity, but it can really dig down and crank out bass), or the Seas ER18 and Peerless Exclusive 830883 (both higher sensitivity, a hair more detail, and less bass power). So that's where the question came from.

There will be plenty more designs coming, this particular one and the RAAL ribbon/AudioTech 18H are the first on my plate.

[Spkr_Bldr]

If your talking about designing these for HT market, then I would suggest you worry a little less about how deep they go, and concentrate on better detail and accuracy, as most people will be working with a sub crossed over @ 80hz give or take...
So if you could get them to roll off around 50hz, or even 40hz you'd be doing great...


BTW, those are very very nice looking cabinets, I would say some of the best looking I have seen...

What is the intended full width and height of them... ?

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=6115&d=1216070939

Thanks for the compliment!

The overall depth is like 13.5", max width where the cab flares out is like 12.3", and the baffle is 206mm wide for reference. Height will be whatever it needs to be for a particular design, more or less slices can make it anything really.

[gus6464]

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=6115&d=1216070939

A 40" tall tower based on that design would be one of the best looking speakers I have seen. What are your thoughts about Scanspeak Revelator drivers? ACI, Totem, and others use it for some of their designs but they can be pretty pricey right?

[Spkr_Bldr]

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=6115&d=1216070939

A 40" tall tower based on that design would be one of the best looking speakers I have seen. What are your thoughts about Scanspeak Revelator drivers? ACI, Totem, and others use it for some of their designs but they can be pretty pricey right?

A tower is in the works too, but I have some many possible ideas in my head I couldn't possibly explain them all yet. Also going to do an open baffle using the cabinet for the bottom section.

I actually have about 40 ScanSpeak 15W Revelator 5.5" woofers in the basement right now, they'll be used for a MTM design. I personally love the sliced paper Revelators, they do just about everything right. But yes, they can be pretty pricey.

[Spkr_Bldr]

So you're a rotary lover eh?

My buddy has an FD3S from Japan (Twin Turbo). Very fast car.

Sheeptar

Yea, sure am. I'm actually the founder of www.rx7club.com and www.rx8club.com. I have 3 RX-7's right now, including a FD3S.

[Tomorrow]

Welcome aboard, Ryan. Your designs merit continuing interest and discussion. Thanks for sharing them here.

Feel free to zip around the Steam Vent portion of the forum with Mazda discussion. (...former RX2 and RX7 owner...;))

[Spkr_Bldr]

Thanks for the warm welcome everybody! RX-2 huh, I haven't even had one of those! I'm looking for a RX-3 or a R100 now.

[Tomorrow]

Thanks for the warm welcome everybody! RX-2 huh, I haven't even had one of those! I'm looking for a RX-3 or a R100 now.

Quick story, ca. 1978.....

Old 4-door green RX-2 (called 'The Green Weanie') racing to get back to San Diego from Tucson...hooked up with a new red Trans Am who couldn't shake me. Doing 100+ west on Highway 8...windy mountain road. Trans Am Driver shaking head in disbelief. :D

Saw black dot far back in rear view mirror...just a glimpse. Slowed on the first corner out of sight of the black dot and let the Pontiac rocket on. Black dot which is indeed the CHP catches up in a moment...slows and looks over at me (doing the speed limit) and shakes head with disbelief and then races off. Two miles up road I grin and wave at Pontiac driver getting huge ticket! ;)

Gotta love Green Weanies!