$2000 or less Floorstanders

[rdamato]

I'm new and am certain this has been beaten to death, but, I need some recommendations for Sub 2K floorstanders. Candidates so far are:

Monitor RS6/RS8
Def Tech Mythos One
B&W 683
Axiom 80's
Aperion

60% HT/ 40% Music

Speakers will be driven by a Marantz SR7002

Thanks in advance for any help.

Ron

[05impalaSS]

Well this can go many different ways, it all depends on what you listen too, and how you listen to them. I recommend you try to find somewhwre that sells them and listen to them with a few Cds that you tend to listen to the most and see what sounds better to your ear, but you will have a different sound once in your home. Have you tried to look at paradigm or polk? I have the Polk Rti12 and they sound amazing for $1400 a pair ran with my Yamaha RX-V2400.

[Stormwulf]

Good suggestion from 05impalaSS, and I would just add, with so many good brands available at that price point.... there are many more out there to look at. Are you dead set on the ones on your list?

[rdamato]

Stormwulf:

I'm not set on anything. I am open to any and all suggestions. Music for me is classic rock and some contemporary thrown in. I appreciate the follow up.

[Stormwulf]

I have a lot of speakers here, and have listened to quite a few over the years. And if there is one thing I know, choosing speakers can be a long and costly (when considering without proper evaluation, and using your own ears to make a good decision, then winding up with ones that you are disatisfied with within a month) process. Do you have many local Hifi shops near you? If so, check out as many different brands and lines as is possible.

I have Paradigm Studio 60's now as mains, but that is because I found at a great deal locally and still NIB, so I went with a CC-690 center channel to match. I'm happy with the purchase for now, but the doesn't mean I will be 6 months from now, and will more than likely try and move up the food chain when funds permit. After trying to get my money back out of these of course. :)

[mazersteven]

Salk Sound
SongTower QWT
http://www.salksound.com/SongTower.shtml

[jostenmeat]

Salk Sound
SongTower QWT
http://www.salksound.com/SongTower.shtml

That was also my first thought at stated budget. Outside of ID, I am quite certain I would buy on the used market. Unlike with used cars, there usually aren't greater maintenance costs with speakers that are just a few years old. Off the tip of my tongue, Id also check out Dynaudio Contours above budget, or Dyn Focus below budget.

[calnbs]

This is a great read in addition to your audition. It was very interesting for me. Go to #14 and it'll show you where to download

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1014749&highlight=speakerquest

download link.

http://www.4shared.com/file/53793604/29b2d300/Speaker_Reviews.html

Any of your choice of speakers will be great, along with Swans, AV123, Paradigm, Polk, etc.

[AcuDefTechGuy]

http://cgi.ebay.com/Bowers-Wilkins-B-W-704-2-1-2-Way-Vented-Box-Speakers_W0QQitemZ330252152734QQihZ014QQcategoryZ1 4993QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=0NHT4


http://digitalcraze.com/Details.asp?ProductID=1677

[rdamato]

Acudeftechguy:

Have you dealt with Digital Craze???? Their prices look good.

Ron

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Acudeftechguy:

Have you dealt with Digital Craze???? Their prices look good.

Ron

Well, what I would do is take digitalcraze's price and get others like AbtElectronics or even your local stores to price-match. My local store is Ultimate Electronics, and they price-matched digitalcraze -- down to the cents, including S/H, taxes, everything!

Another member - Itschris - bought the 7002s from digitalcraze. In the end he got the speakers, but it took about 4 weeks. So send him a private message (PM).

Another idea is onecall.com. They may not fully price-match digitalcraze, but they will go half-way.

I've asked abtelectronics to price-match digitalcraze, and they did approve. However, when I found out that my local store also price-matched, I bought locally instead.

I got all my DefTechs at 30% of MSRP!

In other words, I could walk into my store today and get the BP7002s for $1,680/pr plus tax = $1,825/pr.

So aim for 25-30% off DefTechs.

If my local stores will not price-match, I would get abtelectronics to price-match digitalcraze.

But ask Itschris on this forum. He bought from digitalcraze and got his speakers okay - I believe. Now buying receivers from digitalcraze is another matter. He can tell you about that. But DefTech speakers were okay.

[sgtpepper9]

I have the Klipsch RF-63s and have been very pleased. I constantly find myself amazed with the clarity and extension on the low end. I would advise auditioning them before buying though, as many people find the Klipsch to be bright (though I do not).

EDIT: BTW the klipsch are also excellent for HT.

[rdamato]

Acudeftechguy:

I'm really intrigued by the 7002's. I heard them and was blown away. My question: Are they really that good and doea the built in sub obviate the need for an additional out board sub?

Thanks

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Acudeftechguy:

I'm really intrigued by the 7002's. I heard them and was blown away. My question: Are they really that good and doea the built in sub obviate the need for an additional out board sub?

Thanks

Having the 7002s are like having dual 300-watts SuperCube subwoofers. I think they can produce good bass in medium size rooms - I'd say 3,000 cubic ft or less.

But in terms of pure hardcore subsonic bass output, they won't match the dedicated subs from SVS, HSU, Epik, etc.

The built-in powered subwoofers have a gain/volume control. If you turn that volume up, you will produce plenty of bass, but at the same time you may sacrifice some tonal accuracy with more subwoofer output.

Here's a funny thing I've noticed. Many people buy these big-time dedicated subwoofers than can cause an earthquake. But when you ask them what volume they set their subwoofers, they will say that they set the volume to about 25%.:D

Here's another funny fact. Some of these big-time subs can produce 20Hz at 120 dB! But when was the last time you listened to music/movies at 120 dB? Most of us go to about 90dB.

So what's "good" bass to one person may be different for another.

I have the BP7000SC and BP7001SC. Without the Trinity Subwoofer, even the 7000 & 7001 literally produces bass that seriously and severely shakes and rattles my walls - even in the adjacent rooms. I go outside the house and still hear the bass.

So you may not need the extra dedicated subwoofer. Everyone is different.

One more thing about the BP7002. It is a 3-way speaker system: 1) Tweeters, 2) Midrange/Upper Bass, and 3) Subwoofer. In other words, the subwoofer, although powered, is part of a whole system. It is not a separate system. One crossover network directs the highs to the tweeters, mids and upper bass to the midrange/upper bass drivers, and lows to the subwoofer drivers. In other words, it is a full-range speaker system that you can set as "Large" or "Full-Range on your receiver or pre-pro.

Are they that good?

Yes. But it's a relative statement. They are that good compared to speakers in the same price class. I'm sure you've read the reviews.

If you thought they sounded good, it meant that your HT store had a good setup. I've yet to find a store or show room that had a setup where I was happy with the sound of ANY speakers.

I've listened to Klipsch, Mirage, DefTech 7001, Paradigm Studio 100, and B&W 800D. In every case, the sound was not that great because either the room acoustics were wrong or something else in the setup was wrong.

So as long as the speakers sound great in your own room, that's the key thing.

If you are serious about the 7002s, this is what I would do. Talk to Best Buy's Magnolia Home Theater near you. Ask them if they can order the 7002s for you. Ask them to make sure they have a 30-Day return policy withOUT a restocking fee. If they still sound great to you in your own room, tell the MANAGER that if they would price-match digitalcraze, you would keep the 7002s. If they don't, you would return them. They will try to keep your business. I have a feeling they would rather price-match than have excess inventories on hand.

[3db]

Audition these if you can

http://www.totemacoustic.com/ca/en/products/columns/forest/specifications/

or

http://www.psbspeakers.com/products/Synchrony/Synchrony-Two
or
http://www.psbspeakers.com/products/G-Design/G-Design-GT1-Tower


I own these,
http://www.psbspeakers.com/products/Image-Series/Image-T45-Tower

and really love their revealing nature for HT and especially music. They reveal the music as it is, a bad recording will sound bad, a good recording will sound great.

[rdamato]

Bumpage for more advice

[Joe Schmoe]

If it were me, I wouldn't merely spend less than $2000, I would spend a lot less. There are many fantastic floorstanders well under $1000, and quite a few under $500.

[bandphan]

If it were me, I wouldn't merely spend less than $2000, I would spend a lot less. There are many fantastic floorstanders well under $1000, and quite a few under $500.

well please share, the OP is still looking...would some of those floorstanders be on stands and start with the letter A:D

[Matt34]

These are all well within the $2k price bracket but will give you an idea of what's out there, maybe you can move up a in the model lines on certain brands listed.

Here is what I would audition:

PSB T65

Revel Concerta F12

Ascend acoustics Sierra 1 (ID)

Salk Song Towers (ID)

Rocket RS850 (ID)

Vandersteen 2CE Signature (used)

Monitor Audio GR 20

Nht Classic Four (used)

Polk Audio LSi15 (used)

Quad 22L2 (used)

*The ones marked used are speakers I found on Audiogon near your price range.

[Midcow2]

I'm new and am certain this has been beaten to death, but, I need some recommendations for Sub 2K floorstanders. Candidates so far are:

Monitor RS6/RS8
Def Tech Mythos One
B&W 683
Axiom 80's
Aperion

60% HT/ 40% Music

Speakers will be driven by a Marantz SR7002

Thanks in advance for any help.

Ron

You can get a pair of new Def Tech 7002 BP super towers for about $2,000 after normal discount! They have built in sub providing nice full range for both HT and music! And Marantz AVRs drive them really nice ;)

[Davemcc]

Stormwulf:

I'm not set on anything. I am open to any and all suggestions. Music for me is classic rock and some contemporary thrown in. I appreciate the follow up.

Another pair to consider since you mention classic rock and contemporary music is the Era D14, or even the D10. When it comes to listening to music purely for pleasure, I actually prefer my Era D5 over my Dynaudio Focus 140. I've heard the D14 and liked them for all the same reasons as I like my D5. It's hard to describe, but the Era speakers have a wonderful tone that makes bass and guitar riffs just sing.

There's no question that the Dynaudio are a better speaker, more detailed and accurate (and much more expensive). But if you can find the opportunity to hear the Era, they are worth a listen at least.

http://www.signalpathint.com/index.php/Design-14-Series/

[AcuDefTechGuy]

You can get a pair of new Def Tech 7002 BP super towers for about $2,000 after normal discount! They have built in sub providing nice full range for both HT and music! And Marantz AVRs drive them really nice ;)

I second that one, bro!:D

[DaveHo]

I owned DefTech BP 30's for number of years. I would steer clear of DefTech if you intend to do any music listening. I would put the Salk Song Towers & the Rocket 850's at the top of the list. AV123 offers totally free shipping if you decide you don't like them.

-Dave

[Joe Schmoe]

well please share, the OP is still looking...would some of those floorstanders be on stands and start with the letter A:D

Unlike you, I am smart enough to know that floorstanders do not sit on stands.:rolleyes:
In a large room, the Infinity Primus 362s, Def Tech BP10Bs, or Polk Monitor 70s all offer stunning performance for $1000/pr or less, with the Infinities being under $500. In a smaller room, I would suggest the next model down from each of these.

[Midcow2]

I owned DefTech BP 30's for number of years. I would steer clear of DefTech if you intend to do any music listening. I would put the Salk Song Towers & the Rocket 850's at the top of the list. AV123 offers totally free shipping if you decide you don't like them.

-Dave

Don't Know about the Salk Sing Towers but the Rocket 850s are very good speakers. However, to be fair the 850s are a whole different level above the BP30s. Have you compared the 850s to the Def Tech 7002s ? The Def Tech 7002s are much different than the BP30s and sound very good when listening to music!

Bottom line the OP should audition the speakers and pick the ones that sound best to him!

[mazersteven]

Don't Know about the Salk Sing Towers but the Rocket 850s are very good speakers.

If I'm correct the Salk Songtowers were preferred over the 850's from people who have auditioned both side, by side.

[Spkr_Bldr]

This isn't a dig against Def Tech at all, but since the OP says 40% music there's no way I'd consider the 7002's. My experience with them and music was not enjoyable, but if you prefer DSP effects over accuracy and imaging, you might like them for music.

Song Towers are good speakers, they're a good combination of accuracy and musicality. But if you're a loud listening HT guy, they're not the best option.

I've heard Era D14's and they were very nice. They should also be able to crank out the peaks you need for HT ... there's actually a pair on Audiogon right now for $1450. I'd say that would be a good option.

Another good option would be the AV123 x-static. Good performance on music, and they move plenty of air for HT.

[itschris]

I don't want to start some kind of new "my speakers are better than yours" kinda thing, but I have to respectfully disagree with you. I just recently got my 7002's and I have to say that I'm quite pleased with their musical performance. Every since they first came on the scene and became popular with the home theater crowd, this has been a common and recurring statement. Ironically, much the same was said about Atlantic Technology when they came to relevance about the same time.

I've listened to a lot of speakers, granted, I can't say I've done so in a controlled environment where I could listen to them side by side to compare, but I think I've gotten a pretty good exposure over the years to know what I like... and in the end... with any comparable quality built speaker... we are talking about personal preference and little else. I defy anyone to explain to me what the "best" sounding speaker is and why... vs.. another. What you will find is a dissertation on opinion and preference.

I find the peformance of the 7002's quite extraordinary. I think the strong points are imaging and soundstage. Granted, like a lot of speakers, room setup and positioning is critical, but this should not be considered a fault, just a requirement. I have two positions for my speakers... everyday and critical listening and I can say with complete matter of factness that the difference is significant between just a move of a foot or so.

I think these speakers sing. I spent a few hours this weekend listening from everything from Norah Jones to Metallica. Having heard Norah Jones live, I was thrilled to hear the unique and wonderful texture of her voice replicted with aplomb. From nuance to sheer thunder of the orchestra playing with Metallica, I didn't once feel let down in any way by these speakers. After about 4-5 hours of non-stop listening, I did not feel fatigued at all like I have with many other setups nor did I feel musical quality left anything to be desired in any real way. I'm not saying Def Techs are the end all be all of the speaker world... hardly, but they do provide an awful lot of performance for the money they cost and for if they cost a lot more. The are not my dream speaker. The 800 series B&W's are, but ironically, I've been told those speakers "suck" by any number of people... even here. So I say again, it's all subjective. Some folks love Klipsch and others roll their eyes at those big horns and feel they have no place in any "true" audiophile room. Def Techs are one of those speakers that on any given day you will read or hear heaps of praise or acute disdain for... mostly by folks who shouldn't be commenting either way.


I would suggest to the OP to listen to as many speakers as you can. Best Buy Magnolia stores carry Def Techs and at least in the store by me, they have a pretty nice room setup where you can actually a/b several models against a few other of the better model speaker names.




This isn't a dig against Def Tech at all, but since the OP says 40% music there's no way I'd consider the 7002's. My experience with them and music was not enjoyable, but if you prefer DSP effects over accuracy and imaging, you might like them for music.

Song Towers are good speakers, they're a good combination of accuracy and musicality. But if you're a loud listening HT guy, they're not the best option.

I've heard Era D14's and they were very nice. They should also be able to crank out the peaks you need for HT ... there's actually a pair on Audiogon right now for $1450. I'd say that would be a good option.

Another good option would be the AV123 x-static. Good performance on music, and they move plenty of air for HT.

[Joe Schmoe]

My Def Techs (BP8Bs and 10Bs) also sound extremely good with music. Soundstage/imaging is one of their many strong suits.

[Midcow2]

I don't want to start some kind of new "my speakers are better than yours" kinda thing, but I have to respectfully disagree with you. I just recently got my 7002's and I have to say that I'm quite pleased with their musical performance. Every since they first came on the scene and became popular with the home theater crowd, this has been a common and recurring statement. Ironically, much the same was said about Atlantic Technology when they came to relevance about the same time.

I've listened to a lot of speakers, granted, I can't say I've done so in a controlled environment where I could listen to them side by side to compare, but I think I've gotten a pretty good exposure over the years to know what I like... and in the end... with any comparable quality built speaker... we are talking about personal preference and little else. I defy anyone to explain to me what the "best" sounding speaker is and why... vs.. another. What you will find is a dissertation on opinion and preference.

I find the peformance of the 7002's quite extraordinary. I think the strong points are imaging and soundstage. Granted, like a lot of speakers, room setup and positioning is critical, but this should not be considered a fault, just a requirement. I have two positions for my speakers... everyday and critical listening and I can say with complete matter of factness that the difference is significant between just a move of a foot or so.

I think these speakers sing. I spent a few hours this weekend listening from everything from Norah Jones to Metallica. Having heard Norah Jones live, I was thrilled to hear the unique and wonderful texture of her voice replicted with aplomb. From nuance to sheer thunder of the orchestra playing with Metallica, I didn't once feel let down in any way by these speakers. After about 4-5 hours of non-stop listening, I did not feel fatigued at all like I have with many other setups nor did I feel musical quality left anything to be desired in any real way. I'm not saying Def Techs are the end all be all of the speaker world... hardly, but they do provide an awful lot of performance for the money they cost and for if they cost a lot more. The are not my dream speaker. The 800 series B&W's are, but ironically, I've been told those speakers "suck" by any number of people... even here. So I say again, it's all subjective. Some folks love Klipsch and others roll their eyes at those big horns and feel they have no place in any "true" audiophile room. Def Techs are one of those speakers that on any given day you will read or hear heaps of praise or acute disdain for... mostly by folks who shouldn't be commenting either way.


I would suggest to the OP to listen to as many speakers as you can. Best Buy Magnolia stores carry Def Techs and at least in the store by me, they have a pretty nice room setup where you can actually a/b several models against a few other of the better model speaker names.

Hey Chris,

Thanks for your review and confirmation that the 7002s sound good musically. I like the imaging and sound on my 7002s. I find myself going back and listening to older music more and more and seem to enjoy it more than I remember it originally. However, to be honest my primary focus is still on HT video : Satellite and DVDs.

Later

MidCow2

P.S.- I going to pick up some Redfish fresh off the boat and smoke it this weekend :cool:

[DaveHo]

... The Def Tech 7002s are much different than the BP30s and sound very good when listening to music!

Not really. Both bipolar. Main diff is the built in "subwoofer". I'll admit I haven't seriously listened to any of the DefTech line since I bought my BP-30's, but at the time the models with the "subwoofer" didn't float my boat. Boomy, mono-tone bass that hardly extended anywhere near what I would call subwoofer frequencies.

-Dave

[itschris]

Again, I have to respectfully disagree. Granted the bass in not in line with a couple of large HSU's, but to say the bass is boomy and does not extend just isn't the case. Having lived with two Sunfire subs in my old system several years back, I got pretty spoiled having strong accurate bass. Now I would not say the 7002's put out the same level of performance as those, but I will say they can put a serious shake to the house during movies. After watching Cloverfield, I noticed a couple of my wife's figurines laying on their side in the cabinet that's near the setup. The great thing I love about the subs is that they blend very naturally for music as well where as a lot of subs sound like the thump that you'd typically hear coming from a lowered 1989 Nissan Sentra with neon UFO lights underneath and a 2 year old primer job from the body kit that never got painted.

I'm extremely please with the bass performance of these speakers. The only thing I find lacking is my room and that is the one downside of built-in subs, you don't have the flexibility in positioning. That is absolutely true and can be an issue for some. But my family room (some of you may remember the pictures) couldn't be worse for accoustics unless you specifically tried to make it that way. I have an 55x80 glass curio cabinet about 5 feet away on the side wall, a granite fireplace, 18' peaked ceilings with the opposite side wide open to the kitchen where there bunch more granite. Despite that, I still have fairly good bass response from those Def Techs.

I know a lot of folks are just not crazy about the Def Tech model. The sames goes for Carver/Sunfire. For whatever reason, they just draw a lot of strong reaction from both sides. It's all good though.

[fox]

I've been running Paradigm Studio 100's for a few years now. Last I heard they were priced at $2,500 MSRP a pair, less though when I bought mine. At that time, I bought them for under $2,000 (my price), although that was then, not now either. There are so many good choices out there that if at all possible, one should listen to a number of speakers with music you know well and let your ears make the decision. Visit the audio stores in your area, spend some listening and then make your choice. It likely won't be ideal because you may have to go to a few stores and you will have to go by memory as to how the last one sounded compared to the one now. A side by side listening session may not be an option, but if it is, all the better. Take your time and enjoy the experience. Hopefully you will end up with something that will make your music that much more pleasureable. Good luck..

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Not really. Both bipolar. Main diff is the built in "subwoofer". I'll admit I haven't seriously listened to any of the DefTech line since I bought my BP-30's, but at the time the models with the "subwoofer" didn't float my boat. Boomy, mono-tone bass that hardly extended anywhere near what I would call subwoofer frequencies.

-Dave

Most of these stand alone subwoofers don't even go below 30 Hz. So you must be talking about HSU, Velodyne, Epik, SVS?

I can tell you that the BP7001SC and 7000SC will produce some serious bass. They will literally rattle your walls, even in the adjacent rooms.

I think the 7002s will also rattle your walls.

I think the 7004 & 7006 may not reach as deep or loud as the higher models, but they will better most towers that don't have the built-in subwoofers.

The Revel Salon towers can produce a SPL of 106dB @ 35 Hz. But even this $22,000 pair of speakers cannot match a $1,500 Epik, SVS, or HSU subwoofer when it comes to producing low & loud quality bass.

[mazersteven]

Definitive's 7000 series---built in subs. :rolleyes:

One mans Overkill, is another mans Headroom. And vise versa.

[Spkr_Bldr]

Well I certainly don't want to start a debate about Def Tech's, just giving my opinion to the OP. Take it for what you think it's worth, but in my opinion the 7002's and BP10's aren't just poor at music, they're some of the worst I've ever heard. They're some of the least detailed speakers I've ever encountered, and the signal just seems smeared in all axes, including time.

But then again I've heard them in big HT setups, and they performed well.

Just for the record, I personally put 2-channel performance as my singular criteria when selecting (or building) speakers. I'm only saying that to help establish where I'm coming from in my opinion of Def Techs.

[mazersteven]

I think the 7004 & 7006 may not reach as deep or loud as the higher models, but they will better most towers that don't have the built-in subwoofers.



This is a totally personal opinion. And your entitled to your opinion. But to claim such a statement as "better most towers".

Whatever :rolleyes:

[ParadigmDawg]

Hey, I think DT's are a tad better than BOSE:DThis is a totally personal opinion. And your entitled to your opinion. But to claim such a statement as "better most towers".

Whatever :rolleyes:

[Joe Schmoe]

P.S.- I going to pick up some Redfish fresh off the boat and smoke it this weekend :cool:

Where will you get big enough rolling papers?:p

[Joe Schmoe]

It is time to put an end to the ridiculous urban legend that Def Techs are "not good for music". Anyone who thinks that has obviously either not heard them at all or not heard them set up properly. In fact, they are at least as good for music as any comparably priced towers, whatever the brand.

[AcuDefTechGuy]

It is time to put an end to the ridiculous urban legend that Def Techs are "not good for music". Anyone who thinks that has obviously either not heard them at all or not heard them set up properly. In fact, they are at least as good for music as any comparably priced towers, whatever the brand.

The big problem is speaker placement and room acoustics.

Some rooms are great, while others are terrible. If you listen to DefTechs in a good setup/placement and acoustics, they will sound great. Otherwise, they will sound terrible - just like all speakers out there, including B&W 800 series.

For example, if you go to Audio Dimensions in Norman, OK, you would think that B&W speakers sound terrible. If you go to Audio Midwest in Edmond, OK, you would think Paradigm speakers sound terrible. Is it true? Well, in those rooms and with those setups, yes it is true. But in better rooms and setups, they will most likely sound excellent.

That's why some people say that DTs sound better in a bigger, better HT environment - probably because the speaker placement and acoustics are better.

Certain speakers will fit certain rooms better than others. The OP just needs to make sure it fits well with his room.

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Hey, I think DT's are a tad better than BOSE:D

And that's all that matters!:D

Bose is awesome, and if DTs are even better, deductive reasoning tells us that DTs are even better than awesome.:D

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Definitive's 7000 series---built in subs. :rolleyes:

One mans Overkill, is another mans Headroom. And vise versa.

Unless you have actually listened to DTs in a good home theater, not in some showrooms that only care about stuffing as many speakers as possible into their places, just keep your cool and don't pass judgements too quickly.

Comment on the speakers that you have actually heard in a good environment. Just because you like Polk speakers better doesn't mean you need to shoot down every comment people make about their positive experiences with DTs.

The OP did not ask for anyone to argue whether DefTechs are good or bad. There are proper speakers for all rooms, sizes, and personal preferences.

Just audition and find out. Not all speakers are right for everyone, not even Polk.

[AcuDefTechGuy]

The bottom line is you take all reviews (Home Theater Mag, Sound & Vision Mag, Ultimate AV Mag, etc.) with a grain of salt.

And you take all personal opinions on this forum as well as all forums with a grain of salt.

Just because some speakers sound "terrible" to one person in one room does not mean they will sound terribe to you in your own room.

And just because some speakers sound "great" to one person in one room does not mean they will sound great to you in your own room.

Another member on this forum recently had to return some highly regarded tower speakers because he thought they sounded "terrible" in his own room. He gave the DT 7006s a try, and loved because they sounded "great" in his room. But it may be the opposite in your own room.

[mazersteven]

just keep your cool and don't pass judgements too quickly.

Comment on the speakers that you have actually heard in a good environment.

Just because you like Polk speakers better


I'm not passing judgment to quickly. I've spent a lot of time in front of properly set-up Def Tech 7000 systems, in acoustically treated rooms. I was also thinking of purchasing a Supercube One, and Reference early on in my HT travels.

My comments are from speakers I have "Actually Heard".

And who said anything about Polks???

[bandphan]

If someone likes DTs, thats great and they should enjoy:) The one thing that seems to be a consensus with most non owners (and some owners) is that the amount of distortion in the lower frequencies is unacceptable for critical listening. WOULD someone that owns these speakers please provide some in room testing (or Gene) and post some pretty ole graphs to show their distortion levels say at 95db and 108dbs.

[Joe Schmoe]

And that's all that matters!:D

Bose is awesome, and if DTs are even better, deductive reasoning tells us that DTs are even better than awesome.:D

Ha Ha. Comparing anything to Bose is an intentional insult (and a rather rude one, at that!):eek:

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I'm not passing judgment to quickly. I've spent a lot of time in front of properly set-up Def Tech 7000 systems, in acoustically treated rooms. I was also thinking of purchasing a Supercube One, and Reference early on in my HT travels.

My comments are from speakers I have "Actually Heard".

And who said anything about Polks???

Oh, my bad, then.:D

Okay, so I take it back.

I guess DefTechs are just not a good fit for everyone. Some love them. Some hate them.

[AcuDefTechGuy]

If someone likes DTs, thats great and they should enjoy:) The one thing that seems to be a consensus with most non owners (and some owners) is that the amount of distortion in the lower frequencies is unacceptable for critical listening. WOULD someone that owns these speakers please provide some in room testing (or Gene) and post some pretty ole graphs to show their distortion levels say at 95db and 108dbs.

Gene did say that he would try to remember to ask DefTech in September for some speakers to review!:D

I hope he gets 5 BP7000SCs + a Trinity Sub for review.:D

I can hope, can't I?:D

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Ha Ha. Comparing anything to Bose is an intentional insult (and a rather rude one, at that!):eek:

Greg was just being smart and having fun.

He knows he loves DefTechs almost as much as he loves Bose. But please, don't tell anyone.:D

Well, Joe, two other forum members auditioned the B&W 802Ds in well acoustically treated rooms, and both were NOT very impressed at all. They were disappointed. The rooms were both professionally acoustically treated. These were in 2 different continents (Europe and USA)!

There is a right speaker for everyone. That's cool. Not everyone likes DefTechs because not everyone has the same hearing.

Some people think that Bose sounds great. That's cool too.:D

[bandphan]

if you want to ship me a pair Ill be glad to do some testing, my table saw hasnt been used in a couple of months:D Seriously keep hitting DT up to send them to Gene(you know how busy he is), im sure you have some pull over there

[AcuDefTechGuy]

...the amount of distortion in the lower frequencies is unacceptable for critical listening.



First, they might want to turn DOWN the bass volume knob.

Second, studies have shown that distortion in the lower frequencies of 10 % and even 20% is not a biggy in our hearing perception.

Again, to the OP, as you can see, we are all DIFFERENT in opinions and preferences.:D

[AcuDefTechGuy]

if you want to ship me a pair Ill be glad to do some testing, my table saw hasnt been used in a couple of months:D Seriously keep hitting DT up to send them to Gene(you know how busy he is), im sure you have some pull over there

Well, I think if Gene or Clint would just ask DefTech, they would be happy to send some speakers for review.

[bandphan]

Second, studies have shown that distortion in the lower frequencies of 10 % and even 20% is not a biggy in our hearing perception.

IRRC those most studies were refering to frequencies below 30-35hz, and at lower spls;)

[Davemcc]

The OP did not ask for anyone to argue whether DefTechs are good or bad.

So true. And in that light not every unfavorable comment or opinion of DeafTech needs to be challenged by the DeafTech Defense League. It's not likely helping the OP. Let it go already.

[bandphan]

DeafTech Defense League.

ROFLMAO, is that the Bazzaro world to the Justice League:eek:

[Matt34]

So true. And in that light not every unfavorable comment or opinion of DeafTech needs to be challenged by the DeafTech Defense League. It's not likely helping the OP. Let it go already.

Dave, you and I must have been thinking the same thing.:D Last night I had a reply typed up about how it's not wise to upset the Def Tech Mafia. I ended up deciding not to post it.

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Dave, you and I must have been thinking the same thing.:D Last night I had a reply typed up about how it's not wise to upset the Def Tech Mafia. I ended up deciding not to post it.

It's a good thing because we were waiting for you outside your place.:D

It's a fair statement. But if anyone were to make the same remarks about any other speakers (B&W, Paradigm, etc.) the fanboys would also be a little defensive, don't you think?

[Davemcc]

Dave, you and I must have been thinking the same thing.:D Last night I had a reply typed up about how it's not wise to upset the Def Tech Mafia. I ended up deciding not to post it.

Have no fear...you can always ban them...go all RFK on their mafia.

[Matt34]

It's a good thing because we were waiting for you outside your place.:D

It's a fair statement. But if anyone were to make the same remarks about any other speakers (B&W, Paradigm, etc.) the fanboys would also be a little defensive, don't you think?


Absolutely, my statement can apply to any number of brands around here; it just seems you guys have just been on a roll the most recently. ;)

[bandphan]

Absolutely, my statement can apply to any number of brands around here; it just seems you guys have just been on a roll the most recently. ;)

agreed, imo people should be able to point out what flaws their speakers have because they accutal expeirence, but most prefer to fan:rolleyes:

[Gimpy Ric]

The OP mentioned other brands than just Def Techs. I vote he try out the Axiom 80's and the Aperions Audio 6T's :D

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Absolutely, my statement can apply to any number of brands around here; it just seems you guys have just been on a roll the most recently. ;)

I wonder how many forum members own DefTechs vs. B&W vs. Paradigm vs. everything else?

But I'll make a better effort not to be sucked into the darkside the next time a negative remark is made.:D

[billy p]

Absolutely, my statement can apply to any number of brands around here; it just seems you guys have just been on a roll the most recently. ;)

Not just here, it seems like every forum I have followed appear to have a DefTech owners thread:eek:. Its has a cult like following. JK:p

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Not just here, it seems like every forum I have followed appear to have a DefTech owners thread:eek:. Its has a cult like following. JK:p

They're awesome speakers. I just can't believe you guys don't like them.:D

If Audioholics would just do a detail review of DefTech's flagship BP7000SC, I would stop cheering for DTs.:D

By the way, DENON RULES!!!!!

[Joe Schmoe]

Not just here, it seems like every forum I have followed appear to have a DefTech owners thread:eek:. Its has a cult like following. JK:p

So now every excellent brand of speakers that has an owner's thread has a "cult following"?:confused: Weird logic.

[billy p]

Hi Joe, any new speaker reviews? Heh... I believe you belong to a few of those pride of ownership clubs;).Otherwise, have a good day:D.

[Joe Schmoe]

Hi Joe, any new speaker reviews? Heh... I believe you belong to a few of those pride of ownership clubs;).Otherwise, have a good day:D.

Actually, I got some old speakers back. I gave a friend my Primus 250s after he had a fire. He recently returned them after buying a new system for himself. I am reminded of why I liked them in the first place, as they still sound fabulous. (I wish I could get silver grilles for them, though.):)

[billy p]

Actually, I got some old speakers back. I gave a friend my Primus 250s after he had a fire. He recently returned them after buying a new system for himself. I am reminded of why I liked them in the first place, as they still sound fabulous. (I wish I could get silver grilles for them, though.):)

Excellent and I hope he used one of your many referrals before he made that purchase.:)

[Joe Schmoe]

Excellent and I hope he used one of your many referrals before he made that purchase.:)

Actually, he had heard the Def Techs in my HT and was blown away by them (rightfully so), so that is what he bought.

[billy p]

Actually, he had heard the Def Techs in my HT and was blown away by them (rightfully so), so that is what he bought.

I would never buy any speaker, unless I heard them first.:)

[cubbie5150]

agreed, imo people should be able to point out what flaws their speakers have because they accutal expeirence, but most prefer to fan:rolleyes:

Yeah, I get a kick out of how so many people's self-worth is tied to objects they own.. weird

[Joe Schmoe]

I would never buy any speaker, unless I heard them first.:)

Neither would I, unless I could return them. (In the case of ID brands, that means returning them without having to pay shipping.)

[Midcow2]

I would never buy any speaker, unless I heard them first.:)


I bought a CLR3000 without ever even actually hearing it.

I bought it Vicariously :rolleyes: through the experiences of other Aduioholic member, especially AcuDefTechGuy!

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I bought a CLR3000 without ever even actually hearing it.

I bought it Vicariously :rolleyes: through the experiences of other Aduioholic member, especially AcuDefTechGuy!

Itschris touched on this in another thread, but I think it is possible that certain people may have slightly different hearing senses - just enough so that one person may perceive the sound as CRYSTAL CLEAR, DETAILED, SMOOTH, & FOCUSED, while another person may perceive the same sound as MUDDY & UNFOCUSED?

I know the difference in room acoustics and speaker placement is a huge factor, but it still makes me wonder a little.

I bought all my speakers based on all the amazingly exceptional reviews with the condition that I could return my speakers within 30 days.

[billy p]

Itschris touched on this in another thread, but I think it is possible that certain people may have slightly different hearing senses - just enough so that one person may perceive the sound as CRYSTAL CLEAR, DETAILED, SMOOTH, & FOCUSED, while another person may perceive the same sound as MUDDY & UNFOCUSED?I know the difference in room acoustics and speaker placement is a huge factor, but it still makes me wonder a little.I bought all my speakers based on all the amazingly exceptional reviews with the condition that I could return my speakers within 30 days.I often use reviews as a basis for wanting to audition speakers. Before buying my speakers I auditioned them a couple of times but having the knowledge of being able to return them eases any doubts I may have.:)

PS: In case your wondering they're in my sig:D

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I often use reviews as a basis for wanting to audition speakers. Before buying my speakers I auditioned them a couple of times but having the knowledge of being able to return them eases any doubts I may have.:)

PS: In case your wondering they're in my sig:D

Yes, but how speakers sound in the store is usually different from how they sound in your own room. You keep your speakers based on how they sound in your home, not how they sound in the store.

[Spkr_Bldr]

Itschris touched on this in another thread, but I think it is possible that certain people may have slightly different hearing senses - just enough so that one person may perceive the sound as CRYSTAL CLEAR, DETAILED, SMOOTH, & FOCUSED, while another person may perceive the same sound as MUDDY & UNFOCUSED?


I think the answer is each individuals personal experience. I do a lot of critical listening with other people, either with the local guys or at shows, and my evaluations are quite often in line with others listening along as well. And in setting like that we all share similar past listening experience and histories. But when I have friends over and they listen to my designs, people who aren't audio guys, the ways they describe what they're hearing often seems strange to me. Their point of reference is so different.

Before I got into building speakers I had quite a few that I though were clear, detailed, smooth, focused, etc ... some Wharfedales, Paradigms, Energy, Mirage, and a pair of Dynaudio monitors. It was literally like flipping a switch when I finally did put something in the same room with them that WAS clear, detailed, smooth, and focused. Suddenly I realized just how off I was before, but I wasn't wrong for thinking that way before, I just didn't have a frame of reference to show me otherwise.

[fredk]

Ryan. I think you have it exactly right. For quite a while I wondered why there seemed to be such a variance in what people preferred and how differently people 'hear' the same set of speakers.

What you write is pretty much in line with what Dr. Toole wrote in one of his papers. He pointed out that people needed to be trained to hear properly. That is, exposed to the proper reference source to learn what uncoloured sound really is. AFTER they have been properly trained, most people prefer the same flat frequency response (whith high end roll off).

I actually wonder if our brain is capable of 'EQing' sound over time to normalize it. When I first got my system, I noticed some strong room effects on the low end in the way of boomy notes in some frequencies. I havn't done anything to the room or the system over the last month, yet I no longer notice those boomy notes as much as I did when I first set the system up.

[itschris]

I'm still not sure I buy this "golden ear" argument. For the moment, let's just talk about the Def Techs only because I have a frame of reference because I own them. I've read plenty of reviews by audiophiles who have had a tremendous amount of experience listening to all kinds of speakers in all kinds of environments... Def Techs included. Many of the reviews I have read have been extremely positive, actually 180 degrees different, from your assessment. I don't believe for one moment that you are flawed in that assessment, however. I do believe that how you perceive what you hear could be very different then someone else. What's pleasing to others, may not just be pleasing to you.

I don't believe you have the opinion of Def Techs that you do because you have a higher degree of refined hearing. There are plenty of others who have been in the industry and exposed to the finest equipment that also seem to think that Def Techs are fairly fine performing speakers.

And don't get me wrong, this really isn't about Def Techs at all, but just a general idea about how I'm starting to perceive all this. You constantly hear opposing viewpoints on just about everything and I just find it odd how that can be. With all things being completely equal, there simply has to be other factors in play beyond "I really do know what sound good and bad because I'm better experienced."


I think the answer is each individuals personal experience. I do a lot of critical listening with other people, either with the local guys or at shows, and my evaluations are quite often in line with others listening along as well. And in setting like that we all share similar past listening experience and histories. But when I have friends over and they listen to my designs, people who aren't audio guys, the ways they describe what they're hearing often seems strange to me. Their point of reference is so different.

Before I got into building speakers I had quite a few that I though were clear, detailed, smooth, focused, etc ... some Wharfedales, Paradigms, Energy, Mirage, and a pair of Dynaudio monitors. It was literally like flipping a switch when I finally did put something in the same room with them that WAS clear, detailed, smooth, and focused. Suddenly I realized just how off I was before, but I wasn't wrong for thinking that way before, I just didn't have a frame of reference to show me otherwise.

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I actually wonder if our brain is capable of 'EQing' sound over time to normalize it. When I first got my system, I noticed some strong room effects on the low end in the way of boomy notes in some frequencies. I havn't done anything to the room or the system over the last month, yet I no longer notice those boomy notes as much as I did when I first set the system up.



That is one interesting theory. I suppose it is possible. We can't rule it out.

But if I went to a showroom and listened to the B&W 800Ds and found them very "muddy", "bloated", "compressed", "congested", and unfocused sounding, does that mean my ears are untrained to this "good" sounding that's I'm not hearing?:D

And is it possible that after listening to this bad sound my brain could EQ it and then the bad sound will turn into clear, smooth, and focused sound?

It is possible. But I did notice IMMEDIATE sound improvement with speaker placements with my own speakers.

[Joe Schmoe]

I don't believe you have the opinion of Def Techs that you do because you have a higher degree of refined hearing. There are plenty of others who have been in the industry and exposed to the finest equipment that also seem to think that Def Techs are fairly fine performing speakers.


Noone's opinion of anything is ever a result of having "a higher degree of refined hearing". Those who make such claims clearly have overinflated egos.

[itschris]

My comments wern't really directed at Ryan necessarily or anyone in particular. Again, it's more that his comments just got me thinking which is never a bad thing in my book.

I do believe there are performance differences in speakers.... don't get me wrong. In no way would I choose my speakers over a setup of top an Dynaudio for instance, but at that point, your comparing two drastically different animals. I've heard those speakers and loved them. That doesn't mean my speakers sound like crap however... just different and yes... not quite as good, but very good in their own way.

I've really got to the point where I think our preference to what we hear varies just as much as our taste in cars, music styles, clothes etc. It's not finite or necessarily tangible. I love Ferrari, but don't really care at all for Lambo's. Yet others find Lambo to be the true Italian art of cars. I think when we all judge and give our opinions on equipment, not just speakers, we are largely speaking to our own personal prejudices, personal tastes, and most importantly the internal perceptions or workings in our head that make one thing pleasing over another... and all of these factors may be at different level of subconscience.

I also think that all of this is good. It creates discussion, and descriptors that can at least narrow a person's focus toward a set of similar perceived judgements. Most importantly, however, I dont have to have someone agree with me to value their opinion. I just can't learn if I keep a closed mind like that. Anyway, I think this has been a solid 9 pages of good discussion by everyone.

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Why can't they do a "shoot-out" with B&W vs Revel vs Paradigm vs DefTech vs. Dynaudio, etc., like they do with cars in Car & Driver, Road & Track, or Motor Trend?:D

[allargon]

Why can't they do a "shoot-out" with B&W vs Revel vs Paradigm vs DefTech vs. Dynaudio, etc., like they do with cars in Car & Driver, Road & Track, or Motor Trend?:D

I think we all want Audioholics or some other mag (but preferably Audioholics!) to do the following shoot-outs.

Mid-range receivers:
Onkyo TX-SR606 vs. Yammy RX-V363 vs. equivalent Denon vs. equivalent Sony vs. equivalent Marantz vs. equivalent Pioneer

$1k receivers:
Onkyo TX-SR805/6 vs. Yammy RX-V863 vs. Denon AVR-988 vs. equivalent Pioneer vs. equivalent Marantz, etc.

$500 subwoofers

$500 pair towers

$1k speaker packages

etc.

[itschris]

It's a fun exercise for sure... but do we really wanna know for sure that there's little difference between one thing over the next... if that's the outcome? Or, do we like believing that there are in fact very real sonic differences between a $250 receiver vs a $2500 one. I would think there are and that those differences would be clear, but imagine if they weren't?

[Midcow2]

..real sonic differences between a $250 receiver vs a $2500 one. ...

wouldn't that finally lay to rest the wire cable question once and for all ?

Because we all know the $2,500 one, uses Monster cables and wiring :D :D
so that is the reason the $2,500 is so much better sonically :rolleyes:



:D JOKE :D:D

[billy p]

I think we all want Audioholics or some other mag (but preferably Audioholics!) to do the following shoot-outs.

wouldn't that finally lay to rest the wire cable question once and for all ?

Because we all know the $2,500 one, uses Monster cables and wiring :D :D
so that is the reason the $2,500 is so much better sonically :rolleyes:



:D JOKE :D:D

It certainly would for some but for some members "they can't handle the truth";). Sorry, I watched "A Few Good Men" the other night.:o

[bandphan]

So OP, after all of this rambling, what have you conculed?

[Joe Schmoe]

do we really wanna know for sure that there's little difference between one thing over the next?

I already do know that for sure, so I for one would not be shocked.:cool:

[itschris]

So OP, after all of this rambling, what have you conculed?


HA! In all our (read: My) self gratuitous ramblings, I actually had to go back and read what the original post was about.

Talk about hijack. It's good though how discussion evolve. It makes things interesting. But I would like to hear the OP's thoughts on all this.

[armaraas]

Hm. Well, it may be a little late, I decided to stay out of it once the conversation headed the Def Tech direction since I do not have any experience with them (their setup in store by me was not good, they acted as if they would not budge from MSRP, and they didn't fit the one criteria I was given to meet- no black). But just in case the OP is still around and since he did mention some interest in internet direct brands I figure I might throw my 2 cents in anyway, because it's either that, or I keep working.

I would suggest if there are some local dealers with brands you liked when you heard them in store, see if they have anything they'll let you take home and audition for a couple of weeks or if they have a good return policy. If you find something that works out, and you're interested in a couple of internet direct brands, feel free to order them at the same time to compare. Keep in mind Aperion will pay shipping both ways, as will AV123. Axiom you may have to pay return shipping. I knew this up front, and ordered M80's with the expectation I'd pay up to $80 to send them back (I was ok with this since I could audition them in home for convenience).

I decided to return the M80's and called Axiom up. It was very easy, no questions asked (well they did, but I was not obligated to give them an answer, but I did). They offered to send me shipping labels for $20 each for the towers, so I took that offer to save some money. They also offered to call the courier to schedule a pickup. So basically all I had to do was box them up and be home when the courier came back. A lot easier than I expected (I thought I'd have to take them in somewhere). As a bonus, I was never actually charged for return shipping and received a full refund. I don't know if this is common, or if it is because I did order a couple of other sets of speakers from them, but it was a nice surprise. Since I saved that money, I kind of wish now I would have ordered another set of speakers or two to audition. Not that I have any regrets with what I have, it just would have been cool to be able to listen to some other brands that are not prominent around me.

As a couple of others have mentioned, if you keep the speakers closer to $1000 than $2000, you would have some money left over to put towards a nice sub. I'm not sure how you feel about a sub right now, but it's something to keep in mind especially for movies.

Someone mentioned NHT Classic 4's earlier. I did like those when I heard them in store, so if you can find those they might be worth a listen and also include a built in sub if that's your preference. There are a couple of places online where you can sometimes find open box or demos of them for well below the $2000 MSRP.

Another brand that has not been mentioned yet I think are Energy RC-70's. I really wanted to get those, MSRP is $2000 and was out of my price range and I just missed a sale on them, otherwise I would have ordered them. If you can find them near you they're probably worth checking out as I've heard a lot of good things about them too. Not that that means anything since I hardly hear anything bad about too many brands, other than 1 or so...

[AcuDefTechGuy]

...Someone mentioned NHT Classic 4's earlier. I did like those when I heard them in store, so if you can find those they might be worth a listen and also include a built in sub if that's your preference...



That was me.:D

The thing about the NHT Classic 4 is that the built-in sub can be Active or Passive. If you want it to be Active, you will have to buy an additional NHT amp. It goes to about 50 Hz Passive, and down to 27 Hz Active +/- 3dB.

[Joe Schmoe]

That was me.:D

The thing about the NHT Classic 4 is that the built-in sub can be Active or Passive. If you want it to be Active, you will have to buy an additional NHT amp. It goes to about 50 Hz Passive, and down to 27 Hz Active +/- 3dB.

That doesn't make sense. How can the frequency limit of the speaker be determined by which amp is driving it?:confused:

[AcuDefTechGuy]

That doesn't make sense. How can the frequency limit of the speaker be determined by which amp is driving it?:confused:

Well, because with the amp, which I did not mention also has the active crossover, you can crank up the subwoofer volume -- just like in the DefTech BP7006-7000s. I guess without the dedicated NHT subwoofer amp/crossover, it would be like the BP7006-7000 with the subwoofer volume down to ZERO (but plugged in).

[bandphan]

And in that light not every unfavorable comment or opinion of DeafTech needs to be challenged by the DeafTech Defense League.

<a href="http://s86.photobucket.com/albums/k107/bandphan/?action=view&current=justice-league-of-oklahoma.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k107/bandphan/justice-league-of-oklahoma.jpg" border="0" alt="dt"></a>

couldnt resist

[DD66000]

Why can't they do a "shoot-out" with B&W vs Revel vs Paradigm vs DefTech vs. Dynaudio, etc., like they do with cars in Car & Driver, Road & Track, or Motor Trend?:D

What makes you think deftect belongs in that league? They don't.

And these will blow them all away. JBL Everest, described as playing real music, not just hifi.

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii4/hifiguy268/JBL_Everest_Rosewood.jpg

[Davemcc]

<a href="http://s86.photobucket.com/albums/k107/bandphan/?action=view&current=justice-league-of-oklahoma.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k107/bandphan/justice-league-of-oklahoma.jpg" border="0" alt="dt"></a>

couldnt resist

This is great. I'm going to use this one over and over.:D:D:D

[AcuDefTechGuy]

What makes you think deftect belongs in that league? They don't.



Because Home Theater Magazine, Sound & Vision Magazine, and Audio-Video Revolution, among many sites believe DefTech belongs in the big league with all of them, and they have A LOT more CREDIBILITY than YOU do.

And who are you to say that any speaker is not in a certain league? That's just your opinion. And you know what? You are WRONG.:eek:

I'm going to Cancun for the next week. You can bash all you want while I'm gone because I won't read a word of anything you have to say.:p

[Davemcc]

Because Home Theater Magazine, Sound & Vision Magazine, and Audio-Video Revolution, among many sites believe DefTech belongs in the big league with all of them, and they have A LOT more CREDIBILITY than YOU do.

And who are you to say that any speaker is not in a certain league? That's just your opinion. And you know what? You are WRONG.:eek:

I'm going to Cancun for the next week. You can bash all you want while I'm gone because I won't read a word of anything you have to say.:p

It's time...already.:D
http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k107/bandphan/justice-league-of-oklahoma.jpg

[bandphan]

And these will blow them all away. JBL Everest, described as playing real music, not just hifi.

Theres a bold statement:rolleyes: calling all fanboys........... Im sure your beloved dd66000 series is a very good speaker, and at 30K+ a pair, it better be:p

[bandphan]

This is great. I'm going to use this one over and over.:D:D:D

When ever there is trouble with the socks, they will be there:D

[itschris]

What makes you think deftect belongs in that league? They don't.

And these will blow them all away. JBL Everest, described as playing real music, not just hifi.

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii4/hifiguy268/JBL_Everest_Rosewood.jpg

Rather fairly ignorant thing to say here. I don't come here to defend my or anyone else's choices in equipment. Folks buy the things they do because of personal likes/dislikes, budget, and a whole host of other reasons.

Even though we get into serious discussion about performance and gear, it rarely breaks down to stupid comments like that. There are some pieces of equipment I would never own, even if I had to do with out, but when others users post questions or I join a discussion, I never offer up half-hearted insults and I always have and show respect for someone else's choice. That's how it's done here. You may want to spend more time reading through posts to get a better feel about how we treat one another here before posting again.

[DD66000]

Theres a bold statement:rolleyes: calling all fanboys........... Im sure your beloved dd66000 series is a very good speaker, and at 30K+ a pair, it better be:p

Well the Everest did win "best of innovation" at the '07 CES in LV.
But I'm not near the fanboy that some people are on this forum, about def tect.
And there are many other brands of speakers, besides JBL, I think are worth having. Infinity Prelude MTS, VA Beethoven, James Symphonic, Revel, B&W, just to name a few I have auditioned. And I'm sure a few I haven't auditioned.

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Well the Everest did win "best of innovation" at the '07 CES in LV.
But I'm not near the fanboy that some people are on this forum, about def tect.
And there are many other brands of speakers, besides JBL, I think are worth having. Infinity Prelude MTS, VA Beethoven, James Symphonic, Revel, B&W, just to name a few I have auditioned. And I'm sure a few I haven't auditioned.

You just wait until I get my $60,000 B&W Tube-Loaded Nautilus!!!

Then I'll come back and say that my speakers will blow your little speakers away!:p

[AcuDefTechGuy]

<a href="http://s86.photobucket.com/albums/k107/bandphan/?action=view&current=justice-league-of-oklahoma.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k107/bandphan/justice-league-of-oklahoma.jpg" border="0" alt="dt"></a>

couldnt resist

That actually looks pretty good. Did you draw that yourself?:D

[DD66000]

You just wait until I get my $60,000 B&W Tube-Loaded Nautilus!!!

Then I'll come back and say that my speakers will blow your little speakers away!:p

I'd have to drive over to SF to audition those. That would be a face off; $60K Everest next to $60K Nautilus, I'd paid for that privilege!

[Funkmonkey]

I haven't been around here in a while, but a few months ago I was searching for a pair of sub $2000 floorstanders. I listened to every one I could find, and more than a few that were more than $2000. The Salk SongTowers are easily the best speaker under $2500. At $2500 they are a tough call between them and the Totem Hawks. Midrange is better on the ST, but the Hawks dig deeper. Here is a link to my search if you are interested: Speakerquest (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=995082)

Best advice I can give you is to get out there and listen. Most of the ID brands have a network set up where owners will allow you over for an audition. I was able to set up two auditions with the help of Jim Salk, one for the SongTowers, the other for the HT3. The HT3 turned out to be exactly what I was looking for, and is actually a bargain for it's (a lot more than I planned on spending) asking price.

Good luck in your search, take your time and have fun.
Cheers,
Funk

[mazersteven]

I recommend the SongTowers in post #6, and Funk gets all the Thanks.

Go figure. :eek:

http://xs3.xoospace.com/myspace/graphics/19625.gif

[Funkmonkey]

I think Mazer turned me on to the Salks in the first place.. thanks buddy :D

[Gern Blanston]

Well, what I would do is take digitalcraze's price and get others like AbtElectronics or even your local stores to price-match. My local store is Ultimate Electronics, and they price-matched digitalcraze -- down to the cents, including S/H, taxes, everything!

Another member - Itschris - bought the 7002s from digitalcraze. In the end he got the speakers, but it took about 4 weeks. So send him a private message (PM).

Another idea is onecall.com. They may not fully price-match digitalcraze, but they will go half-way.

I've asked abtelectronics to price-match digitalcraze, and they did approve. However, when I found out that my local store also price-matched, I bought locally instead.

I got all my DefTechs at 30% of MSRP!

In other words, I could walk into my store today and get the BP7002s for $1,680/pr plus tax = $1,825/pr.

So aim for 25-30% off DefTechs.

If my local stores will not price-match, I would get abtelectronics to price-match digitalcraze.

But ask Itschris on this forum. He bought from digitalcraze and got his speakers okay - I believe. Now buying receivers from digitalcraze is another matter. He can tell you about that. But DefTech speakers were okay.

Here's my experience: I ordered a pair of Mythos STS from BB Magnolia at full retail. They don't keep them in the store, so I had to wait about a week (I got them to give me 36 months no interest on the BB card). During that week, I found them somewhere else at about $400 less, but I hadn't gotten them from the other store yet. I went to the Magnolia store to get my account credited after the STSs had come in, and they said, "let's see what we can do", and they came back and said that they would price match plus 10%. Well, they price matched $400 per speaker rather than $400 off of the total. I didn't disabuse them of their misunderstanding, so I got the DefTechs for $880 less than retail which comes out to about 25%.

By the way, the Mythos STS sound fabulous in a two channel setup.

[walter duque]

[QUOTE=AcuDefTechGuy;436997]Oh, my bad, then.:D

Okay, so I take it back.

I guess DefTechs are just not a good fit for everyone. Some love them. Some hate them.[/QUOT


Maybe they just can't affort them, that's why they hate them?

[mazersteven]

=AcuDefTechGuy;436997]I guess DefTechs are just not a good fit for everyone. Some love them. Some hate them.

Maybe they just can't affort them, that's why they hate them?

It seems your the one caught up with the cost of a speaker. :rolleyes: Maybe it's just that they didn't like the Def Tech sound.

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Here's my experience: I ordered a pair of Mythos STS from BB Magnolia at full retail. They don't keep them in the store, so I had to wait about a week (I got them to give me 36 months no interest on the BB card). During that week, I found them somewhere else at about $400 less, but I hadn't gotten them from the other store yet. I went to the Magnolia store to get my account credited after the STSs had come in, and they said, "let's see what we can do", and they came back and said that they would price match plus 10%. Well, they price matched $400 per speaker rather than $400 off of the total. I didn't disabuse them of their misunderstanding, so I got the DefTechs for $880 less than retail which comes out to about 25%.

By the way, the Mythos STS sound fabulous in a two channel setup.

Awesome experience. Glad to hear that. And congrats on your new awesome speakers.:D

[DD66000]

It seems your the one caught up with the cost of a speaker. :rolleyes: Maybe it's just that they didn't like the Def Tech sound.

Ya, deftechs aren't the be all to end all speaker, never heard any I would buy. I use a vintage speaker system (late '70s, and $2K, then) that blow away def tech .
Also have a new system that blow them away.

[walter duque]

[QUOTE=DD66000;471858]Ya, deftechs aren't the be all to end all speaker, never heard any I would buy. I use a vintage speaker system (late '70s, and $2K, then) that blow away def tech .
Also have a new system that blow them away.[/QUOTE

I don't want to knock anyones speaker preference, would I buy them NO because I like a different sound, that does'nt make them bad speakers. We all prefere a different sound that's why we have so many choices. What speakers do you have from the 70s.

[DD66000]

[QUOTE=DD66000;471858]Ya, deftechs aren't the be all to end all speaker, never heard any I would buy. I use a vintage speaker system (late '70s, and $2K, then) that blow away def tech .
Also have a new system that blow them away.[/QUOTE

I don't want to knock anyones speaker preference, would I buy them NO because I like a different sound, that does'nt make them bad speakers. We all prefere a different sound that's why we have so many choices.

I'm not knocking them, just I wouldn't buy them. And you're right, we all have different hearing, thus so many speakers to chose from. Some clowns think bose are good. To each his/her own.
But we all think what we have is good, or we wouldn't have them. But when you hear a speaker system that is clearly better you should be able to realize that fact, as to if you spend the money, for what will probably be more expensive speakers, well that's something else.

[walter duque]

I use a vintage speaker system (late '70s, and $2K, then) that blow away def tech .
Also have a new system that blow them away.

Which speakers from the 70s do you own?

[Gern Blanston]

I have a pair of Infinity Qb's that I bought from Pacific Stereo in 1978 when I was in high school that still sound great.

[Gern Blanston]

Awesome experience. Glad to hear that. And congrats on your new awesome speakers.:D

Thank you, sir. And thank you for your input into my speaker search. I really got beaten up by the staff and others over my disappointment with the EMP 50's, and I thought that I wouldn't post anymore on this forum, but you were a big help!

[walter duque]

[QUOTE=walter duque;471874]

[QUOTE]I'm not knocking them, just I wouldn't buy them. And you're right, we all have different hearing, thus so many speakers to chose from. Some clowns think bose are good. To each his/her own.

I don't own DefTech or Bose it's a matter of fact all my speaker systems are hand made and don't come of any shelf. And I do own a few different set-ups. The Evo-2 System by Cinepro is just one of them which I am sure very few people even know, if any on this forum.

[DD66000]

I can lay claim to a few custom speakers I've built. Taking fairly high end vintage speakers and upgrading the boxes and crossovers, and having the woofers re-coned, which made them much better than the originals.
The crossovers, alone, cost me more to built than the price of many bookshelf speakers.

[mazersteven]

The Evo-2 System by Cinepro is just one of them which I am sure very few people even know, if any on this forum.

So now you have a $70K system in the house to along with your other $10K speakers.

http://www.trephination.net/gallery/macros/attention_whore.jpg

[bandphan]

[QUOTE=DD66000;471882][QUOTE=walter duque;471874]



I don't own DefTech or Bose it's a matter of fact all my speaker systems are hand made and don't come of any shelf. And I do own a few different set-ups. The Evo-2 System by Cinepro is just one of them which I am sure very few people even know, if any on this forum.

dont be so sure:rolleyes:

edit- just because my avatar is drinking doesnt mean i am orrr does it?

[Alex2507]

http://www.trephination.net/gallery/macros/attention_whore.jpg

I bet that's where bandphan is drinking.

[bandphan]

I bet that's where bandphan is drinking.

drid your sayr bedpan;) http://ilmot.co.uk/HarpLager.jpg

just beacuse im 1/2 irish, wait im done:D

[Alex2507]

I meant a bar in Deerfield called Danny's 19th Hole.
Is that place still there? Are you there?


Is Angie there ... ?

[bandphan]

I meant a bar in Deerfield called Danny's 19th Hole.
Is that place still there? Are you there?


Is Angie there ... ?

nope, but the tipperary is....since 61.. was dannys at deer creek cc?

[Alex2507]

nope, but the tipperary is....since 61.. was dannys at deer creek cc?

No. Hillsboro just west of 95 in the Comp USA Plaza.

[bandphan]

No. Hillsboro just west of 95 in the Comp USA Plaza.

nope thats were the deer creek crowd hung, its cj's draft house now.. Im east of federal 1 block off intercostal;)